Over reaction and misinformation

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Rational Blazer Fan

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Greetings.

As a long time "lurker" dating back to BBF, I decided to finally register in order to air a few things I have notice that just drive me bonkers as a fan.

1.) If something happens that you do not like, it does not mean the end of the world. That being the case, is it really necessary for fans to be pulled in such an emotional swing with every Blazer move or non move? Blazer management felt that Hedo could help and did what they could to sign him. Hedo made a choice to go else where. The management group didn't get done what they set out as their number one priority, but The Portland Trail Blazers did not become a worse team for their failed attempt at signing Hedo.

Blair was passed on by several teams all the way to the 37th pick. If Portland made such the drastic error in passing him three times, then so did several other teams. If the management group didn't feel comfortable drafting Blair, then it didn't matter if it was at 22 or 35 or 55, he wasn't their guy. He had a good opening summer league game and the chants of Pritchard making a mistake came back. IT IS SUMMER LEAGUE! And a good game (or even career) doesn't change the fact that he wasn't the target for 30 teams in the first round, or six teams in the second. People still complaining about this are probably the same people mad that we didn't draft the stash. How did that want turn out?

Management in any company will make mistakes, or missteps. Often however, the mistakes or missteps that are thought to be catastrophic to the lower level employees or consumer is not what it appears to be. Some times in life their are smart people or people who hold more knowledge than you. To think you know every move that happens behind closed conference rooms is ignorant. Which brings up...

2.) Roy's contact is being negotiated. I am sure with most of us being adult (I question the age and mental function of a few) I am sure we have all bought cars. No to equate Roy to any old car, but the analogy works the same. Say he is a $50,000 BMW. You go to the dealer, and you do not just say, "here's a check for sticker price, have a good day." No! You negotiate. It may take the whole day. You may even walk out of the dealership frustrated. But if you want that car you come back, and you start negotiating again. If you get the BMW you want for $45,000 great. If you really want that BMW and you can't negotiate a better price, it may be a tough choice, but if your desire is high enough you pay the full retail price, it might just take a little longer to feel comfortable doing so. There may be several gives and takes before an agreed set of terms is reached. Each side try's to get the best value for their product. The dealer (agent) being the holder of the desired commodity (Roy), and the consumer (in this case the Blazers) and what they are want to pay for the desired commodity. Some times the desire to obtain trumps the desire to save. Some times it doesn't. Either way, we have no clue, unless we are in that negotiation.

3.) Not every young player is going to play great every night. Hell, not every player is going to play great every night. Swing from one extreme reaction to another is not necessary. It is however a sign that the person is either young, emotionally immature, not an fan of the sport but a fan of the adrenaline caused, or acting. It seems a lot is tolerated here, and that is a good thing, but at a certain point enough is enough. It gets old and turns people off.

4.) If you do not enjoy watching and being a fan of Blazer basketball, may I suggest you take up another sport or team.

I think I got most of my chest, and hope the summer brings great things to the Blazers, Roy, LMA, and us fans.

P.S. I thought Bayless did great tonight with his seven assists, and only two other players who could score. Give it time, he's still only twenty.
 
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Welcome! I love the passion. I'll love having someone like you around (as long as you agree with me!).
 
2.) Roy's contact is being negotiated. I am sure with most of us being adult (I question the age and mental function of a few) I am sure we have all bought cars. No to equate Roy to any old car, but the analogy works the same. Say he is a $50,000 BMW. You go to the dealer, and you do not just say, "he's a check for sticker price, have a good day." No! You negotiate. It may take the whole day. You may even walk out of the dealership frustrated. But if you want that car you come back, and you start negotiating again. If you get the BMW you want for $45,000 great. If you really want that BMW and you can negotiate a better price, it may be a tough choice, but if your desire is high enough you pay the full retail price, it might just take a little longer to feel comfortable doing so. There may be several give and takes before a agree set of terms is reached. Each side try's to get the best value for their product. The dealer (agent) being the holder of the desired commodity (Roy), and the consumer (in this case the Blazers) and what they are want to pay for the desired commodity. Some times the desire to obtain trumps the desire to save. Some times it doesn't. Either way, we have no clue, unless we are in that negotiation.

I'm not sure that's the best comparison. You can't really piss off the BMW...
 
Welcome to the board!

All well said. I'm happy that another sound-minded individual is joining into the fray! Just a warning... They'll drive you nuts! You just gotta learn to live w/ it. No matter how many well thought out, well written posts you make about people being calm, there WILL be those who step out to the ledge everytime anything negative happens. I can't blame them, at least they're passionate about our team -- sometimes maybe just a little too passionate.

All the same, w/out any nutjobs, it'd be a little too boring around here, so they do provide SOMETHING.
 
You've obviously never owned a German car... :drumroll:

I currently own a German automobile - and they are not as easy to upset as some claim. A lot better than my past British and Italian ones - and I suspect a lot better than the Italian I just purchased and hope to drive from Seattle later this week...

But, to be honest, when you do upset them - they are not cheap to fix...
 
Draft the stash was an awesome idea..why didn't we do it?!

..Oh yeah
 
Draft the stash was an awesome idea..why didn't we do it?!

..Oh yeah

Well, at least the stache wouldn't demand a 5 year contract with the 5th year being a PO. :dammit:
 
Thanks for posting this. Fewer mood swings and quick judgments are good for any forum!

As for the car analogy: It's worth considering that this is a VERY rare car. Like only 10-20 of them in the world. And other people, at some point, would love to buy that car at full price. And the "salesman" can afford to think about other potential buyers, especially if he gets annoyed at you. I think those facts probably influence how much dicking around with haggling you want to do if you really, really want the car.
 
Thanks for posting this. Fewer mood swings and quick judgments are good for any forum!

As for the car analogy: It's worth considering that this is a VERY rare car. Like only 10-20 of them in the world. And other people, at some point, would love to buy that car at full price. And the "salesman" can afford to think about other potential buyers, especially if he gets annoyed at you. I think those facts probably influence how much dicking around with haggling you want to do if you really, really want the car.

Oh I agree, totally, but it wasn't the point. The point is if you feel as though it is in your best interest to try, you try. If there is only a select few available, that means there is only a select few who can purchase. What harm does it do to act fiscally responsible.

When all is said and done, I do not think Roy will be mad at what has transpired and will be paid accordingly.
 
You should go away from your lurking ways.
 
Oh I agree, totally, but it wasn't the point. The point is if you feel as though it is in your best interest to try, you try. If there is only a select few available, that means there is only a select few who can purchase. What harm does it do to act fiscally responsible.

When all is said and done, I do not think Roy will be mad at what has transpired and will be paid accordingly.
pretty much. Roy will retire a Blazer unless some extraordinary happens that I cannot foresee. He will sign a multi-year extension this summer with the Blazers I'm about as sure of that as I am of anything in the future.

Welcome aboard and repped.
 
Good post.

For me, it's not so much the over-reaction to actual events, it's the over-reaction to every rumor. We have had, literally, pages of screaming over something that did not happen but someone heard it might happen or might have been a possibilty in the past (example, KP is still being excoriated for not trading for Vince Carter, when we have no real evidence any workable deal was ever on the table). And a rumor, unconfirmed, that Rudy did not want Hedo here led to about 7 pages of comparing the relative merits of Hedo & Rudy, calls for trading Rudy, rumors that he really just wanted to be a Laker, etc. etc., none of which had any factual basis.

I mean, if you MUST go nutso, at least go nutso over reality!
 
Greetings.

As a long time "lurker" dating back to BBF, I decided to finally register in order to air a few things I have notice that just drive me bonkers as a fan.

1.) If something happens that you do not like, it does not mean the end of the world. That being the case, is it really necessary for fans to be pulled in such an emotional swing with every Blazer move or non move? Blazer management felt that Hedo could help and did what they could to sign him. Hedo made a choice to go else where. The management group didn't get done what they set out as their number one priority, but The Portland Trail Blazers did not become a worse team for their failed attempt at signing Hedo.

Blair was passed on by several teams all the way to the 37th pick. If Portland made such the drastic error in passing him three times, then so did several other teams. If the management group didn't feel comfortable drafting Blair, then it didn't matter if it was at 22 or 35 or 55, he wasn't their guy. He had a good opening summer league game and the chants of Pritchard making a mistake came back. IT IS SUMMER LEAGUE! And a good game (or even career) doesn't change the fact that he wasn't the target for 30 teams in the first round, or six teams in the second. People still complaining about this are probably the same people mad that we didn't draft the stash. How did that want turn out?

Management in any company will make mistakes, or missteps. Often however, the mistakes or missteps that are thought to be catastrophic to the lower level employees or consumer is not what it appears to be. Some times in life their are smart people or people who hold more knowledge than you. To think you know every move that happens behind closed conference rooms is ignorant. Which brings up...

2.) Roy's contact is being negotiated. I am sure with most of us being adult (I question the age and mental function of a few) I am sure we have all bought cars. No to equate Roy to any old car, but the analogy works the same. Say he is a $50,000 BMW. You go to the dealer, and you do not just say, "here's a check for sticker price, have a good day." No! You negotiate. It may take the whole day. You may even walk out of the dealership frustrated. But if you want that car you come back, and you start negotiating again. If you get the BMW you want for $45,000 great. If you really want that BMW and you can't negotiate a better price, it may be a tough choice, but if your desire is high enough you pay the full retail price, it might just take a little longer to feel comfortable doing so. There may be several gives and takes before an agreed set of terms is reached. Each side try's to get the best value for their product. The dealer (agent) being the holder of the desired commodity (Roy), and the consumer (in this case the Blazers) and what they are want to pay for the desired commodity. Some times the desire to obtain trumps the desire to save. Some times it doesn't. Either way, we have no clue, unless we are in that negotiation.

3.) Not every young player is going to play great every night. Hell, not every player is going to play great every night. Swing from one extreme reaction to another is not necessary. It is however a sign that the person is either young, emotionally immature, not an fan of the sport but a fan of the adrenaline caused, or acting. It seems a lot is tolerated here, and that is a good thing, but at a certain point enough is enough. It gets old and turns people off.

4.) If you do not enjoy watching and being a fan of Blazer basketball, may I suggest you take up another sport or team.

I think I got most of my chest, and hope the summer brings great things to the Blazers, Roy, LMA, and us fans.

P.S. I thought Bayless did great tonight with his seven assists, and only two other players who could score. Give it time, he's still only twenty.


You better leave this place. I've been trying to write calm reasoning around here, but very few of the kids and druggies seem to listen.
 
What does that have to do with anything?
I'd guess that he was responding to your screen name wrongly thinking it referred to University of Oregon. Some here have... strong feelings about the Ducks

STOMP
 
What the???!!! Don't you understand that this is all VERY, VERY IMPORTANT??!!! Don't you get that the people who dare disagree with emotional, over-wrought, ad hominem takes are pathetic losers, plebeian ignoramuses who don't understand the first thing about basketball????
 
Ok, I'll jump on the "voice of dissent" grenade.
Greetings.

As a long time "lurker" dating back to BBF, I decided to finally register in order to air a few things I have notice that just drive me bonkers as a fan.

1.) If something happens that you do not like, it does not mean the end of the world. That being the case, is it really necessary for fans to be pulled in such an emotional swing with every Blazer move or non move? Blazer management felt that Hedo could help and did what they could to sign him. Hedo made a choice to go else where. The management group didn't get done what they set out as their number one priority, but The Portland Trail Blazers did not become a worse team for their failed attempt at signing Hedo.

Of course not. IMHO, however, they became a worse team (by not improving) for letting RLEC fall by the wayside in February, pinning their hopes on "CapSpace '09!", and being left at the altar a bit when Hedo said "No thank you." I, for one, haven't heard KP say once in the last 3 years "I'm waiting to do lopsided trades at the 2010 deadline!" So, for those who got shouted down by the IKPIT masses in February (with statements like, "They get paid to know more than you", and "When you are a GM then you can criticize") to call him out for what seems now to be a pretty big misstep in February is now both a form of "I told you so" and "perhaps there was something to what I was saying".
Blair was passed on by several teams all the way to the 37th pick. If Portland made such the drastic error in passing him three times, then so did several other teams.
Ok, so what? "Phoenix sucks at drafting, so it's ok if we suck?" 30 teams passed on Pendergraph--does that mean he sucks? 32 passed on Cunningham--why'd we get that clown?
If the management group didn't feel comfortable drafting Blair, then it didn't matter if it was at 22 or 35 or 55, he wasn't their guy.
If he wasn't their guy, he sure as heck was someone's, whether at 37 or 43 or 55. Darrell Arthur wasn't close to our guy last year, but we drafted him and turned him into something of value. James White wasn't our guy, and we got 2 seconds for him. Mike Taylor (yes, the NBDL Mike Taylor) wasn't our guy, but we turned him into the #33 pick this year. My contention is that we could have drafted Blair at 33 (where he was an extremely high value pick) and waited to see who needed a bruising PF. Maybe someone would've tossed a couple of picks our way. But let's get back to the "he wasn't their guy". Why not? Injury risk? Skill risk? Attitude problem? Fat problem? He hasn't had an injury in 3 years that's kept him out of so much as a practice. He was the most elite NCAA rebounder in almost a decade--where rebounding is the one college skill universally accepted to be a good predictive factor in the NBA. I can't speak for attitude or IQ, but the fat problems? Travis (for one) hasn't showed up able to pass Nate's conditioning drill since Nate got here. He still plays. Our coaching staff seems to be able to motivate people to stay in shape during the season (Oden's knee aside). What's your contention for why he wasn't "our guy", and yet unable to be turned into something of value?
He had a good opening summer league game and the chants of Pritchard making a mistake came back.
To be fair, I don't think that sentiment/chant ever went away.
IT IS SUMMER LEAGUE! And a good game (or even career) doesn't change the fact that he wasn't the target for 30 teams in the first round, or six teams in the second. People still complaining about this are probably the same people mad that we didn't draft the stash. How did that want turn out?
Nope, they're the same people who say "why didn't we draft the best player around, who actually plays in a position of need?" Why did we pick Pendergraph and Cunningham when 2 players on the board who outplayed them head-to-head, as well as in their conference, as well as in some of their workouts, were still on the board---AND necessitating a free-agent offer to someone playing exactly the position they were drafted for, except for about 8M more? Again, opportunity cost. Would you rather have Millsap and Pendergraph, or Blair and 8M to upgrade a PG or SF with in a lopsided trade? I'm heading to Door #2, but you can continue to think differently and mock those who don't agree.
Management in any company will make mistakes, or missteps. Often however, the mistakes or missteps that are thought to be catastrophic to the lower level employees or consumer is not what it appears to be. Some times in life their are smart people or people who hold more knowledge than you. To think you know every move that happens behind closed conference rooms is ignorant.
Of course. Then again, the reverse is true. Just because someone holds a position doesn't mean they're smarter than you. And just because people have more information than you doesn't mean that they're capable of making the correct decision each time. And when thousands of my dollars are on the line, I reserve the right to criticize whoever I want to for making decisions that even I, as a "low level employee or consumer" who has less knowledge than the "people smarter than me", both saw coming and knew was risky.[/quote] Which brings up...

2.) Roy's contact is being negotiated. I am sure with most of us being adult (I question the age and mental function of a few) I am sure we have all bought cars. No to equate Roy to any old car, but the analogy works the same. Say he is a $50,000 BMW. You go to the dealer, and you do not just say, "here's a check for sticker price, have a good day." No! You negotiate. It may take the whole day. You may even walk out of the dealership frustrated. But if you want that car you come back, and you start negotiating again. If you get the BMW you want for $45,000 great. If you really want that BMW and you can't negotiate a better price, it may be a tough choice, but if your desire is high enough you pay the full retail price, it might just take a little longer to feel comfortable doing so. There may be several gives and takes before an agreed set of terms is reached. Each side try's to get the best value for their product. The dealer (agent) being the holder of the desired commodity (Roy), and the consumer (in this case the Blazers) and what they are want to pay for the desired commodity. Some times the desire to obtain trumps the desire to save. Some times it doesn't. Either way, we have no clue, unless we are in that negotiation. [/quote]As others have said, it's a bit different here.
3.) Not every young player is going to play great every night. Hell, not every player is going to play great every night. Swing from one extreme reaction to another is not necessary. It is however a sign that the person is either young, emotionally immature, not an fan of the sport but a fan of the adrenaline caused, or acting. It seems a lot is tolerated here, and that is a good thing, but at a certain point enough is enough. It gets old and turns people off.
You're right, not every young player is going to play great every night. Why is criticism of that player considered an "extreme reaction"? Why is questioning their decision-making not allowed, or "adrenaline-caused"? As has been stated in numerous other threads, the frustration comes generally when fans feel they are not being told the truth, or that they don't have confidence in what's going on. Case in point: if we're "letting the cake bake", why the heck is Blake or Outlaw out there making boneheaded mistakes? Can't at least we see Bayless or Batum make boneheaded mistakes, since there's at least the hope of upside there, or the chance that one of those players will be crucial to our "dynastic":) teams? Or if we're "going for it" with veterans, why are we passing on the chance to get the likes of Jefferson, Carter, Arenas, Hinrich, etc. for basically RLEC and a young player? It shows that the team is talking out of both sides of its mouth to fans. And what "enough" is "enough"? When PapaG and I get into page-long rants for and against Outlaw, is that bothering anyone else? Is that not what a "discussion board" or "forum" is about?
4.) If you do not enjoy watching and being a fan of Blazer basketball, may I suggest you take up another sport or team.
You could suggest, but you brought up the immature card earlier and I'm going to return the favor here. I've never been a fan of a team that has won a championship while I've been watching. I go to games and watch games on TV and the internet, check box scores, discuss on forums details that most fans I know couldn't care less about, much less the general populace. I spend thousands on tickets (though I live 3 hrs away) because I want to be part of something great. Fortunately, the team looks much closer than it did, say, 4 years ago to being something great. Unfortunately, I see severe missteps that, imho, are decreasing the chance of greatness coming soon. To say "if it's tough, you should quit" is insulting.
I think I got most of my chest, and hope the summer brings great things to the Blazers, Roy, LMA, and us fans.

P.S. I thought Bayless did great tonight with his seven assists, and only two other players who could score. Give it time, he's still only twenty.
 
Good post.

For me, it's not so much the over-reaction to actual events, it's the over-reaction to every rumor. We have had, literally, pages of screaming over something that did not happen but someone heard it might happen or might have been a possibilty in the past (example, KP is still being excoriated for not trading for Vince Carter, when we have no real evidence any workable deal was ever on the table). And a rumor, unconfirmed, that Rudy did not want Hedo here led to about 7 pages of comparing the relative merits of Hedo & Rudy, calls for trading Rudy, rumors that he really just wanted to be a Laker, etc. etc., none of which had any factual basis.

I mean, if you MUST go nutso, at least go nutso over reality!

What is real?
 
Ok, so what? "Phoenix sucks at drafting, so it's ok if we suck?" 30 teams passed on Pendergraph--does that mean he sucks?

No, it means that he wasn't seen as a first-round talent, like Blair. It's perfectly fine to prefer Blair over Pendergraph or Cunningham...we all have our opinions. However, some of the rhetoric on this forum afterward was along the lines of "Pritchard is an idiot for passing over a top-notch prospect!" If he were a top-notch prospect, he'd have been drafted much earlier by someone. There was clearly no certainty among anyone in the league that Blair was a much better prospect that Pendergraph/Cunningham. Therefore, such extreme reactions are unwarranted, IMO. Saying, "I'd rather the Blazers had selected Blair" would have been perfectly reasonable.
 

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