Palins email hacked

[The_Lillard_King]

So what are they looking for specifically with the investigation? Proof that Palin fired the commission because of Wooten?

They are investigating whether Palin abuse her power by using her title to first try to fire Wooten because of an ugly divorce with her sister and when Monegan wouldn't fire him, she fired Monegan for not firing Wooten.

If it is true that would suck. You divorce someone and because the person you divorce has a sister who is powerful, you lose your job. If that is true, that shit ain't right. But again at this stage it is an investigation. We won't know what really happened, if ever, until after the election.

 

[Natebishop3]

They are investigating whether Palin abuse her power by using her title to first try to fire Wooten because of an ugly divorce with her sister and when Monegan wouldn't fire him, she fired Monegan for not firing Wooten.

If it is true that would suck. You divorce someone and because the person you divorce has a sister who is powerful, you lose your job. If that is true, that shit ain't right. But again at this stage it is an investigation. We won't know what really happened, if ever, until after the election.

Well, that's really vague. What would constitute abuse of power? Putting in a phone call to Monegan to get him to look into Wooten? I don't think that's abuse of power. I think that's doing her job. If she ordered him to fire Wooten, then yes, it would be an abuse of power. If she merely asked him to look into the guy, then no I don't think it's abuse.

Firing Monegan would not be an abuse of power. Firing Monegan entirely because he wouldn't fire wooten, abuse of power.

Let me ask you this though, what if the Wooten thing was just the first issue that got her looking at replacing him? What if Monegan really isn't very good at his job? There just doesn't seem to be many facts going around right now. All we know is that Monegan was fired, that Palin had called him a couple times to ask him about Wooten, and that Wooten did in fact do some pretty shady shit.

 

[Денг Гордон]

Well, that's really vague. What would constitute abuse of power? Putting in a phone call to Monegan to get him to look into Wooten? I don't think that's abuse of power. I think that's doing her job. If she ordered him to fire Wooten, then yes, it would be an abuse of power. If she merely asked him to look into the guy, then no I don't think it's abuse.

Firing Monegan would not be an abuse of power. Firing Monegan entirely because he wouldn't fire wooten, abuse of power.

Let me ask you this though, what if the Wooten thing was just the first issue that got her looking at replacing him? What if Monegan really isn't very good at his job? There just doesn't seem to be many facts going around right now. All we know is that Monegan was fired, that Palin had called him a couple times to ask him about Wooten, and that Wooten did in fact do some pretty shady shit.

Sarah Palin calls Monegan, telling him to investigate Wooten over so and so accusations. Monegan tells Palin he can't do anything because they've already punished Wooten for these accusations. Palin fires Monegan.

This is no different than Palin trying to get the librarian who wouldn't remove books that conflicted with Palin's religious beliefs fired.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Well, that's really vague. What would constitute abuse of power? Putting in a phone call to Monegan to get him to look into Wooten? I don't think that's abuse of power. I think that's doing her job. If she ordered him to fire Wooten, then yes, it would be an abuse of power. If she merely asked him to look into the guy, then no I don't think it's abuse.

Firing Monegan would not be an abuse of power. Firing Monegan entirely because he wouldn't fire wooten, abuse of power.

Let me ask you this though, what if the Wooten thing was just the first issue that got her looking at replacing him? What if Monegan really isn't very good at his job? There just doesn't seem to be many facts going around right now. All we know is that Monegan was fired, that Palin had called him a couple times to ask him about Wooten, and that Wooten did in fact do some pretty shady shit.

I don't pretentd to know what all the facts are, I just know congess was concerned enough to conduct an investiagtion. Palin's response was "hold me accountable" but she has done nothing but fight the process. Does that mean she is guilty of abuse of power, no. But I don't buy that she is different from all other politicians and is about reform of congress. (I also don't buy the idea that Obama is diffferent from all other politicians).

They are all politicians and will say whatever to win an election.

FYI-a starnge fact to me about this Palin thing is there is evidence that Todd Palin got involved and emailed and called gov't employees regarding this issue. What the heck is he involed for?

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Sarah Palin calls Monegan, telling him to investigate Wooten over so and so accusations. Monegan tells Palin he can't do anything because they've already punished Wooten for these accusations. Palin fires Monegan.

This is no different than Palin trying to get the librarian who wouldn't remove books that conflicted with Palin's religious beliefs fired.

I agree, there is a pattern here . . . and I wouldn't want to be working for the state if I disagreed with Palin or was married to one of her family.

I feel sorry for Bristol's fiance . . . didn't even want to get married and here he is at a shotgun wedding with Palin holding the shotgun. I would rather be a moose during hunting season.

 

[Denny Crane]

Anchorage Daily News WWW site coverage of the whole thing. A lot better than reading partisan versions of the story with important info left out.

http://www.adn.com/troopergate/index.html

 

[Natebishop3]

Sarah Palin calls Monegan, telling him to investigate Wooten over so and so accusations. Monegan tells Palin he can't do anything because they've already punished Wooten for these accusations. Palin fires Monegan.

This is no different than Palin trying to get the librarian who wouldn't remove books that conflicted with Palin's religious beliefs fired.

Is that state policy? Double Jeopardy? Can't be punished for the same thing twice? I'm just curious.

 

[Denny Crane]

^^^ I think he left out quite a few of the facts.

She actually filed an ethics complaint against herself. She also claims Monegan was fired for insubordination - and produced a number of emails in the filing that showed he had been doing an end around her on some legislation that she had already vetoed. From what I've read on ADN.com, she never directly asked Monegan to fire the policeman but her staff did put pressure on him to do so. Not that there's anything wrong with any of it - see the cop's record.

Looking to subpoena the husband sure looks like a fishing expedition. No wonder she's no longer interested in cooperating.

 

[barfo]

Is that state policy? Double Jeopardy? Can't be punished for the same thing twice? I'm just curious.

Union contract rules, as I understand it.

barfo

 

[barfo]

Anchorage Daily News WWW site coverage of the whole thing. A lot better than reading partisan versions of the story with important info left out.

http://www.adn.com/troopergate/index.html

I agree. Although I disagree with the conclusions you draw from your own reading of ADN.

barfo

 

[Natebishop3]

Union contract rules, as I understand it.

barfo

Well ya, but driving drunk is a crime. Shooting a moose is a crime (I'm assuming lol). Tazing your stepson is abuse. Threatening her father is a crime. Who cares what the union says.

 

[Denny Crane]

I agree. Although I disagree with the conclusions you draw from your own reading of ADN.

barfo

My conclusions are that what should have been a fairly routine oversight kind of investigation into a trivial matter has turned into a partisan mess because Palin was appointed VP candidate and both sides of the presidential campaign have partisan reasons to overblow or bury the thing. It's really unfortunate, but it's almost like a trial where the accused can't get a fair venue because the story is so public everyone who'd be on the jury has reached some conclusion.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

^^^ I think he left out quite a few of the facts.

She actually filed an ethics complaint against herself. She also claims Monegan was fired for insubordination - and produced a number of emails in the filing that showed he had been doing an end around her on some legislation that she had already vetoed. From what I've read on ADN.com, she never directly asked Monegan to fire the policeman but her staff did put pressure on him to do so. Not that there's anything wrong with any of it - see the cop's record.

Looking to subpoena the husband sure looks like a fishing expedition. No wonder she's no longer interested in cooperating.

You posted an interesting link to the local paper. In that article it says:

Todd Palin, although a private citizen, frequently participates in a range of official duties. He had been copied in on official state e-mail that are now being withheld from the public on the grounds of executive privilege.

Cell phone records show that Todd Palin called key Palin aide Ivy Frye three times on the afternoon of Feb. 28, the day before Bailey's conversation about Wooten with Dial. The topics of discussion have not been disclosed.

Three-and-a-half hours after the last call, the first of 10 e-mails begin to fly among Frye, the governor, Todd Palin, Bailey, Administration Commissioner Annette Kreitzer, Deputy Chief of Staff Randy Ruaro and Palin aide Kris Perry. The exchanges continued overnight and into the morning of Bailey's phone call.




How can you conduct an through investigation without interviewing Todd Palin. Another interesting note in the article:

Almost from the moment Palin was named McCain's running mate, Republicans started pressuring to end the probe, which had been approved unanimously by a legislative committee of four Democrats and 10 Republicans.

McCain's campaign began claiming the investigation was a political witch hunt, even though some Alaska Republican lawmakers still backed it.

Then Palin aides canceled their appointments to testify.

After lawmakers began issuing subpoenas, Palin's legal team -- bolstered by McCain campaign lawyer Ed O'Callaghan, a former federal prosecutor -- said the governor would no longer cooperate.

 

[Natebishop3]

You posted an interesting link to the local paper. In that article it says:

Todd Palin, although a private citizen, frequently participates in a range of official duties. He had been copied in on official state e-mail that are now being withheld from the public on the grounds of executive privilege.

Cell phone records show that Todd Palin called key Palin aide Ivy Frye three times on the afternoon of Feb. 28, the day before Bailey's conversation about Wooten with Dial. The topics of discussion have not been disclosed.

Three-and-a-half hours after the last call, the first of 10 e-mails begin to fly among Frye, the governor, Todd Palin, Bailey, Administration Commissioner Annette Kreitzer, Deputy Chief of Staff Randy Ruaro and Palin aide Kris Perry. The exchanges continued overnight and into the morning of Bailey's phone call.




How can you conduct an through investigation without interviewing Todd Palin. Another interesting note in the article:

Almost from the moment Palin was named McCain's running mate, Republicans started pressuring to end the probe, which had been approved unanimously by a legislative committee of four Democrats and 10 Republicans.

McCain's campaign began claiming the investigation was a political witch hunt, even though some Alaska Republican lawmakers still backed it.

Then Palin aides canceled their appointments to testify.

After lawmakers began issuing subpoenas, Palin's legal team -- bolstered by McCain campaign lawyer Ed O'Callaghan, a former federal prosecutor -- said the governor would no longer cooperate.

Well that's awesome. This could all be nothing, but the way the McCain campaign is working, it sure doesn't seem that way.

 

[barfo]

Well ya, but driving drunk is a crime. Shooting a moose is a crime (I'm assuming lol). Tazing your stepson is abuse. Threatening her father is a crime. Who cares what the union says.

Some of those things, the only witnesses are a family named Palin, who seem to be anything but disinterested observers. Do you really want to take their word as gospel?

Note also that they didn't report any of those incidents at the time they happened. They only reported them after the divorce got nasty. So the Palin's supposed 'concern' for the state of AK having a bad trooper is utter bullshit - they are just out to get the guy.

Which makes the idea that she fired Monegan as part of this plausible. Not necessarily true, but plausible.

barfo

 

[barfo]

My conclusions are that what should have been a fairly routine oversight kind of investigation into a trivial matter has turned into a partisan mess because Palin was appointed VP candidate and both sides of the presidential campaign have partisan reasons to overblow or bury the thing. It's really unfortunate, but it's almost like a trial where the accused can't get a fair venue because the story is so public everyone who'd be on the jury has reached some conclusion.

So what do we do in those cases? Just forget about justice?
Yes, there are political consequences - but there is no evidence that the guy doing the investigation (Branchflower) is letting politics influence the investigation.

barfo

 

[Natebishop3]

Some of those things, the only witnesses are a family named Palin, who seem to be anything but disinterested observers. Do you really want to take their word as gospel?

Note also that they didn't report any of those incidents at the time they happened. They only reported them after the divorce got nasty. So the Palin's supposed 'concern' for the state of AK having a bad trooper is utter bullshit - they are just out to get the guy.

Which makes the idea that she fired Monegan as part of this plausible. Not necessarily true, but plausible.

barfo

Yes, and if Palin was so concerned about those issues, she probably should have looked at pressing charges. But ya, poaching is not something that goes away. You can talk to the Forest Service or the Dept. Of Fish and Wildlife, they'll nail your ass hardcore. Poaching is a serious offense. The drunk driving would be harder to prove.

 

[Denny Crane]

I think we've been through this before. There's no separation of branches of government if the congress (of the state) can harass the executive and vice versa. The subpoenas have to go to a judge, the third branch, to resolve the dispute.

Not only did Clinton and Bush go through the same procedures, the Bush administration sent in the FBI to grab a bunch of actual evidence against William Jefferson (the guy caught with $90K in cash in his freezer) and the courts threw all that out.

Of course the executive can submit to the subpoenas, or work other deals to testify - which Palin offered to do. And I don't see why there'd be any reason to not comply fully with the investigation if it weren't politicized.

The bottom line still is that it's in the Democrats' best interest to go on a fishing expedition and throw as many potential issues out there as they can to drag down McCain/Palin and help Obama. The reverse is true - it's in McCain/Palin's interest to squash the investigation until after the election.

 

[Denny Crane]

So what do we do in those cases? Just forget about justice?
Yes, there are political consequences - but there is no evidence that the guy doing the investigation (Branchflower) is letting politics influence the investigation.

barfo

The guy that hired Branchflower was talking about impeachment before one shred of evidence was even looked at.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I think we've been through this before. There's no separation of branches of government if the congress (of the state) can harass the executive and vice versa. The subpoenas have to go to a judge, the third branch, to resolve the dispute.

Not only did Clinton and Bush go through the same procedures, the Bush administration sent in the FBI to grab a bunch of actual evidence against William Jefferson (the guy caught with $90K in cash in his freezer) and the courts threw all that out.

Of course the executive can submit to the subpoenas, or work other deals to testify - which Palin offered to do. And I don't see why there'd be any reason to not comply fully with the investigation if it weren't politicized.

The bottom line still is that it's in the Democrats' best interest to go on a fishing expedition and throw as many potential issues out there as they can to drag down McCain/Palin and help Obama. The reverse is true - it's in McCain/Palin's interest to squash the investigation until after the election.

I get taht this whole process will be put on hold and decided at a later time.

The part I was refering to was how you call the subpeona for Todd Palin a fishing expedition.

If you were an impartial investigator, and you had evidence to show how intertwined Todd Plain was with the process, would you subpeona him?

That's not fishing, that is proper and reasonable investigation.

 

[barfo]

The bottom line still is that it's in the Democrats' best interest to go on a fishing expedition and throw as many potential issues out there as they can to drag down McCain/Palin and help Obama.

But of course that's not what is happening here. This investigation started before Palin was picked as VP candidate. The investigation was started by a bipartisan panel, and no new charges have been added since national politics got involved. So calling it a Democratic fishing expedition is completely inaccurate.

Which is not to say they don't hope it turns out badly for Palin.

barfo

 

[barfo]

The guy that hired Branchflower was talking about impeachment before one shred of evidence was even looked at.

Yes, he foolishly (but correctly) pointed out that that was one possible outcome. So what? Does that change anything?

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

I get taht this whole process will be put on hold and decided at a later time.

The part I was refering to was how you call the subpeona for Todd Palin a fishing expedition.

If you were an impartial investigator, and you had evidence to show how intertwined Todd Plain was with the process, would you subpeona him?

That's not fishing, that is proper and reasonable investigation.

Asked and answered on this one, too. Hawkins Privilege for starters. The scope of what questions will be asked is also in question. If he's asked about those three e-mails, not a problem. If he's asked about anything but the firing of Monagan or pressuring him to fire the trooper, then it's a fishing expedition.

Think about the Fitzgerald investigation. He knew who violated the law, and people were claiming it was someone else hoping for the worst against the Administration. Who got busted? Scooter Libby, who didn't leak the name or violate any law in question - he was busted for something else. Fishing expedition.

 

[Denny Crane]

Yes, he foolishly (but correctly) pointed out that that was one possible outcome. So what? Does that change anything?

barfo

Yes.

It indicates a predisposition of guilt, and the matter of degree being of the worst sort (for her).

 

[Denny Crane]

But of course that's not what is happening here. This investigation started before Palin was picked as VP candidate. The investigation was started by a bipartisan panel, and no new charges have been added since national politics got involved. So calling it a Democratic fishing expedition is completely inaccurate.

Which is not to say they don't hope it turns out badly for Palin.

barfo

What does "bipartisan" mean? That as maverick she pissed off republicans and democrats?

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Asked and answered on this one, too. Hawkins Privilege for starters. The scope of what questions will be asked is also in question. If he's asked about those three e-mails, not a problem. If he's asked about anything but the firing of Monagan or pressuring him to fire the trooper, then it's a fishing expedition.

Think about the Fitzgerald investigation. He knew who violated the law, and people were claiming it was someone else hoping for the worst against the Administration. Who got busted? Scooter Libby, who didn't leak the name or violate any law in question - he was busted for something else. Fishing expedition.

Alright . . . we are not connecting here. I'm not discussing the legal aspect, we could go around with that all day.

My only idea I'm trying to say, is usally a fishing expidition means you really have nothing to bring this guy in, you just want to see if you might get something.

In this case, Todd Palin had his fingerprints all over this incident. How could you, as an investigator, not interview him. Of course you to talk him and subpeona him to do so.

If the lawyers want or can quash the subpeonas . . . that is for the lawyers. But the investiagtor is not fishing, it would be bad investiagtion not to interview him.

 

[DennisRodman]

I think they should get this entire thing over with. Get information and if there is fault condemn it, if not then get it over with. The focus should be on the campaigns and issues that they are focusing on.

Two hens do not equal a bucket of milk.

 

[Denny Crane]

Alright . . . we are connecting here. I'm not discussing the legal aspect, we could go around with that all day.

My only idea I'm trying to say, is usally a fishing expidition means you really have nothing to bring this guy in, you just want to see if you might get something.

In this case, Todd Palin had his fingerprints all over this incident. How could you, as an investigator, not interview him. Of course you to talk him and subpeona him to do so.

If the lawyers want or can quash the subpeonas . . . that is for the lawyers. But the investiagtor is not fishing, it would be bad investiagtion not to interview him.

They're investigating something akin to jaywalking. It's just not as big a deal as one side wants to make out of it. In fact, I'm not sure there's any law here broken - it's an ethics investigation. They're probably going to find, if the investigation is fair, that she deserves a slap on the wrist for pushing to get the trooper fired (though he deserved it anyway) and that she had every right to fire Monagan.

Subpoenas aren't required to get people to testify under oath. Testifying under oath isn't required to find the truth, also.

 

[Денг Гордон]

I think they should get this entire thing over with. Get information and if there is fault condemn it, if not then get it over with. The focus should be on the campaigns and issues that they are focusing on.

Two hens do not equal a bucket of milk.

I saw on Rachel Maddow show on Friday, that they plan on finishing the investigation before the election. It was breaking news during her show.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

They're investigating something akin to jaywalking. It's just not as big a deal as one side wants to make out of it. In fact, I'm not sure there's any law here broken - it's an ethics investigation. They're probably going to find, if the investigation is fair, that she deserves a slap on the wrist for pushing to get the trooper fired (though he deserved it anyway) and that she had every right to fire Monagan.

Subpoenas aren't required to get people to testify under oath. Testifying under oath isn't required to find the truth, also.

You are kidding me right? You think the the investigating committee can just call Todd up and say hey, come on down we want to ask you a few questions about this taped conversation and emials we have.

This is somewhat of an offical investiagtion going. I would hope that if their is a vote in legislature to offically investigate the Governor, whoever did it would do their due dilligence and conduct a competent investigation instead of a no big deal just a jaywalking ticket attitude.