Perry supporter says Romney's religion 'a cult'

[ABM]

Those are the first two words in my bible.
The last four are "Don't cause unnecessary pain".

barfo

Awesome, dude.

 

[ABM]

These scriptures by themselves obviously don't tell the whole story, but at least gives you an idea that what we believe is based on excerpts from the Bible. There are three degrees of glory. Where you end up depends on your faithfulness to God's requirements for salvation. The LDS church will never say that so and so person or members of so and so church will not go to Heaven. What we do say is, God has a set of requirements that are necessary for someone to complete in order to obtain exaltation and if they don't meet them then they can't obtain the highest degree of exaltation. In the end, God is the ultimate judge of who has and who hasn't lived up to His requirements.

So, if I only make it to the third heaven, I'll wish I'd tried a bit harder, eh?

 

[barfo]

Awesome, dude.

I think so. And it sure cuts down on the amount of bible study required.

[If God wanted you to understand the Bible, why doesn't he release an English version instead of making you read a translation? Just another way your God jerks you around? Or is he unbelievably lazy? Maybe he does not speak English? When you arrive at the pearly gates, is the sign going to say "No habla Inglés"?]

barfo

 

[ABM]

[If God wanted you to understand the Bible, why doesn't he release an English version instead of making you read a translation? Just another way your God jerks you around? Or is he unbelievably lazy? Maybe he does not speak English? When you arrive at the pearly gates, is the sign going to say "No habla Inglés"?]


barfo

God doesn't care which translation I read. In fact, He's never even said that I "have" to study the Bible.

Cool, huh?

 

[barfo]

God doesn't care which translation I read.

That seems clear enough. In fact, I daresay you could leave off the "which translation I read".

In fact, He's never even said that I "have" to study the Bible.

Cool, huh?

I assumed as much. Micromanagement is clearly not his style these last couple of millenia.

barfo

 

[ABM]

That seems clear enough. In fact, I daresay you could leave off the "which translation I read".



I assumed as much. Micromanagement is clearly not his style these last couple of millenia.

barfo

Yeah, the way I reckon, God likes to keep things relatively simple. It's mankind that keeps making things so complicated and generally mucked up.

Good observations on your part.

 

[barfo]

Yeah, the way I reckon, God likes to keep things relatively simple.

Does he? Who created almost a million different species of insects? Was it Captain Simplicity?

barfo

 

[ABM]

Does he? Who created almost a million different species of insects? Was it Captain Simplicity?

barfo

Nobody said the view was simple......just the path.

 

[barfo]

Nobody said the view was simple......just the path.

When I can snatch the pebble from your hand, Master Poo, it will be time for me to go.

barfo

 

[D-Rock]

And he's free to be arbitrary and capricious in deciding that, right? And he's kind of got a reputation for that, yes?

So why bother even trying?

barfo

Actually, no. At least under LDS doctrine. "I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise." In other words, He's made a promise that he can't revoke. If we choose to act contrary to it, then the contract is null and void.

 

[barfo]

Actually, no. At least under LDS doctrine. "I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise." In other words, He's made a promise that he can't revoke.

Can God really make a promise he can't revoke? Isn't he, like, omnipotent and stuff?

I am glad to hear that LDS doctrine says he's non-capricious. That would seem to be an important qualification.

barfo

 

[D-Rock]

So, if I only make it to the third heaven, I'll wish I'd tried a bit harder, eh?

I'd imagine so. I doubt you'd be in that one anyway. You're aiming a little low "Hell" is living the rest of eternity knowing that we didn't do everything we knew we should have done and therefore not living up to our potential and the distance between us and God as a result of that.

I know there are those that believe that accepting and professing Christ as their Savior is all that is required. To me, that ignores the existence of commandments and repentance. Obviously what we DO matters as it relates to our salvation or those two things wouldn't exist. Christ's atoning sacrifice has to be taken, it's not forced upon us. Well, the resurrection is, but not the salvation. If we don't take advantage of it by repenting, we cannot claim cleanliness, and no unclean thing can dwell in the presence of God.

 

[maxiep]

I don't really give a shit about religion. All I know is that the two LDS candidates in this election appear to be decent, moral people. Pretty much that's all that matters to me.

 

[D-Rock]

Can God really make a promise he can't revoke? Isn't he, like, omnipotent and stuff?

I am glad to hear that LDS doctrine says he's non-capricious. That would seem to be an important qualification.

barfo

I kind of laughed when I read this because I could totally hear Dr. House saying the exact same thing. I agree. It's very important. Having unlimited power doesn't mean you can go around doing whatever you want, at least in a Godly sense (unless you're a god from Greek or Roman mythology anyway). That word is misapplied or misinterpreted as it comes to God. His omnipotence comes from being the establisher of the rules and being able to adhere to them perfectly. There's also that creator of the world thing. That's pretty powerful stuff.

 

[D-Rock]

I don't really give a shit about religion. All I know is that the two LDS candidates in this election appear to be decent, moral people. Pretty much that's all that matters to me.

As far as politics are concerned, THIS^^^! Repped.

 

[barfo]

As far as politics are concerned, THIS^^^! Repped.

I dunno. My grandma is a decent, moral person, but she is in no way qualified to be president.

barfo

 

[chevyrunssometimes]

You send ignorant, slack jaw kids into the world to talk of things they know nothing of, taught to them by older idiots who perpetuate the lies of Joe and his magic dream. [in honesty, I think the dream thing was brilliant in his circumstances. What better way to bring some order to a disastrous trip -- become a direct link to God. The 'many wives' thing takes the cake...and eats it too.

 

[Denny Crane]

I dunno. My grandma is a decent, moral person, but she is in no way qualified to be president.

barfo

She wasn't at least a community organizer?

 

[Mediocre Man]

I dunno. My grandma is a decent, moral person, but she is in no way qualified to be president.

barfo

Being qualified to be President means nothing according to everyone who voted for Obama

 

[D-Rock]

I dunno. My grandma is a decent, moral person, but she is in no way qualified to be president.

barfo

Yeah, but I doubt your grandmother's religion would be treated as a political issue if she were otherwise qualified, which at least some people think Romney is.

 

[Denny Crane]

Personally, I agree with the constitution, which mandates no religious test to qualify one for public office. There's plenty to judge a candidate on, based upon their history, record, and promises.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Personally, I agree with the constitution, which mandates no religious test to qualify one for public office. There's plenty to judge a candidate on, based upon their history, record, promises, what their church minister says and if they are secretly a Muslim.

FTFY

 

[BrianFromWA]

One of the reasons that I've stayed out of the thread is because I don't see this as a mainstream issue.

There are plenty of juicy points to debate (in the manner that ABM and D-Rock have been doing) on whether LDS is a cult or not, but to the vast majority of people this isn't an issue. As Denny said, a lot of people will either not care a lick about which Spaghetti Monster someone prays to, or look for someone who's generally decently moral without some huge Weiner-esque moment in their background. (yes, SPD, that was on purpose) For those that aren't of the faith, I imagine that the farther the discussion degrades into matters of doctrine and specialization, the more turned off they'll be and think that both are whackjobs. Has anyone actually discussed on here (I haven't seen it, if it has) the large-scale heresy (if you believe in mainstream evangelical doctrines) that the President has espoused? No, because there are bigger deals to worry about than how someone practices their particular faith. And let's be honest...for 30% or more of the country, they aren't voting for someone with an (R) next to their name anyway. So maybe Perry's campaign team (or just this off-the-reservation Congressman) thought that they could steal a large amt of primary votes away from Romney by bringing up his particular brand of faith. I disagree...if you're an evanglical who is of the opinion that LDS is a cult then this isn't a shock to you. If you don't believe that's the case, then some guy from Texas bringing it up won't mask a bunch of the other issues that you'd normally get behind Romney for. Either way, I have a hard time seeing whose mind/vote will be changed by this approach, regardless of how I feel about the veracity (or not) of the quote.

 

[D-Rock]

One of the reasons that I've stayed out of the thread is because I don't see this as a mainstream issue.

There are plenty of juicy points to debate (in the manner that ABM and D-Rock have been doing) on whether LDS is a cult or not, but to the vast majority of people this isn't an issue. As Denny said, a lot of people will either not care a lick about which Spaghetti Monster someone prays to, or look for someone who's generally decently moral without some huge Weiner-esque moment in their background. (yes, SPD, that was on purpose) For those that aren't of the faith, I imagine that the farther the discussion degrades into matters of doctrine and specialization, the more turned off they'll be and think that both are whackjobs. Has anyone actually discussed on here (I haven't seen it, if it has) the large-scale heresy (if you believe in mainstream evangelical doctrines) that the President has espoused? No, because there are bigger deals to worry about than how someone practices their particular faith. And let's be honest...for 30% or more of the country, they aren't voting for someone with an (R) next to their name anyway. So maybe Perry's campaign team (or just this off-the-reservation Congressman) thought that they could steal a large amt of primary votes away from Romney by bringing up his particular brand of faith. I disagree...if you're an evanglical who is of the opinion that LDS is a cult then this isn't a shock to you. If you don't believe that's the case, then some guy from Texas bringing it up won't mask a bunch of the other issues that you'd normally get behind Romney for. Either way, I have a hard time seeing whose mind/vote will be changed by this approach, regardless of how I feel about the veracity (or not) of the quote.

You are right. I apologize for hijacking the thread. This isn't the place for a theological discussion/debate. I'll delete my last post because it's more incendiary than it needed to be.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I tend to believe that there's a portion of America (although maybe not a significant one) that has no clue what the LDS believes and Jeffress' comments may have an biased influence on those people. Of course that could just be a little LDS persecution complex coming through. Generally speaking though, I think you're right. It's not going to sway too many people away from Romney. If anything, from what little I've read, it seems to have turned more people off from Perry. Kind of the same thing that happened to Huckabee.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I'm not saying this isn't a place for theological debate (Lord knows that my views are scattered all over this board), but that in this particular context (Romney v. Perry in the Matter of Religious Doctrine) it's kind of a non-starter in terms of impact on the debate/election.

 

[D-Rock]

I'm not saying this isn't a place for theological debate (Lord knows that my views are scattered all over this board), but that in this particular context (Romney v. Perry in the Matter of Religious Doctrine) it's kind of a non-starter in terms of impact on the debate/election.

Yes, that's what I meant. I know the board is open to religious debate, but this thread has little to do with actual religious doctrines as I had unintentionally tried to turn it into. Thanks for the level headed thinking.

 

[Ed O]

You are right. I apologize for hijacking the thread. This isn't the place for a theological discussion/debate. I'll delete my last post because it's more incendiary than it needed to be.

I don't think that Brian's post meant "shut up" (even in a nice way).

You are doing, as far as I can tell, a great job of being level-headed and laying out things as you understand them. The more we can get of that--whether it's about basketball or LDS or LSD--the better this place will be.

Ed O.

 

[Masbee]

Huntsman to dipshit Pastor:

"Fuck Off!"

And to Perry:

"Fuck you for hanging out with and supporting this knuckle dragger."

Or, at least, that's what I got out of it.

GOP presidential hopeful and Mormon Jon Huntsman had some choice words on Monday for the Dallas pastor who's repeatedly described Mormonism as a "cult" and a "false religion" this weekend.
"The fact that, you know, some moron can stand up and make a comment like that, you know, first of all, it's outrageous," Huntsman said on "The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer." "Second of all, the fact that we are spending so much time discussing it makes it even worse.".......

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/10/huntsman-pastor-is-a-moron/?hpt=hp_bn3

 

[ABM]

"Second of all, the fact that we are spending so much time discussing it makes it even worse.".......

We can all thank the media for that. Not.

Heh, on that note, I can't help but be reminded of Marissa Tomei's character in Ides Of March.

 

[D-Rock]

I don't think that Brian's post meant "shut up" (even in a nice way).

You are doing, as far as I can tell, a great job of being level-headed and laying out things as you understand them. The more we can get of that--whether it's about basketball or LDS or LSD--the better this place will be.

Ed O.

I appreciate that. I didn't think I was going over the top either until my last post that I deleted. I have no problem answering questions and explaining things about the LDS church still, I was just acknowledging and agreeing with Brian that theological discussion wasn't the subject of this thread. I know I don't care for when a thread I'm actually interested in gets hijacked (not that this thread was necessarily interesting to everyone), so I don't want to be the hypocrite that does it.

As a side note, did anyone catch the AC360 interview with Jeffress? I just saw it last night even though it aired a few days ago.