Phil Jackson...President?

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RR7 said:
Yeah, he's proven himself, but how do you prove yourself without the opportunity to prove yourself?
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So you don't see how this could go badly? This is the guy who publicly criticized his owner. You don't see how he could step on Olshey's toes or make the head coach feel uncomfortable? There is a definite risk to this move.

If we were talking about him coming here to coach, I'd be all about that shit, but he's talking about some weird role where he's President, basketball adviser, and asst coach. You don't see how that could be problematic?
 
I do see how it can go badly. But, I see how it can with a host of other candidates as well.
 
I'd give my firstborn to see how a "Zen" approach would work in dealing with staff, agents, lawyers, Paul Allen, Vulcan, advertisers,..................
 
Well, I agree duties would need to be clearly defined.

But if I can entertain the possibility of Laimbeer as a coach I suppose I could live with Phil Jackson in front office.
 
I tracked down a working link and read the Jaynes article. Don't waste your time. Basically, he says to give PJax a job in the front office on the basketball side. Of course that's not a job that's open, President is on the business side.

Honestly, I don't know why PJax would want the actual job that's open. I don't think he wants to spend his life negotiating with COMCAST, and kowtowing to season ticket holders.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
I tracked down a working link and read the Jaynes article. Don't waste your time. Basically, he says to give PJax a job in the front office on the basketball side. Of course that's not a job that's open, President is on the business side.

Honestly, I don't know why PJax would want the actual job that's open. I don't think he wants to spend his life negotiating with COMCAST, and kowtowing to season ticket holders.
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The line seems blurred. I don't see Pat Riley or Larry Bird as the types to work out comcast deals either. Nor Donnie Walsh.
 
RR7 said:
The line seems blurred. I don't see Pat Riley or Larry Bird as the types to work out comcast deals either. Nor Donnie Walsh.
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Those guys are Presidents of Basketball Ops. Pretty much a GM role but with a better title.
 
If we were still running with Chad Buchanan I would be all about PJAX coming in and stepping all over his toes, but I like what Neil is doing and I would rather not piss him off because Phil Jackson wants to play General Manager.
 
Under the the same theme of why do we care what Paul spends his money on, why do we care who runs the business side of the team? I could careless. If his face and his name generates more revenues I would say it's a win for this organization. Would you not?
 
RedHotRollin said:
Under the the same theme of why do we care what Paul spends his money on, why do we care who runs the business side of the team? I could careless. If his face and his name generates more revenues I would say it's a win for this organization. Would you not?
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If his name and face could generate more revenue you'd have a point.
 
Nikolokolus said:
If his name and face could generate more revenue you'd have a point.
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You didn't answer the question though, Niko. Why does it matter who runs the business side? Why does it matter to you if he's qualfied or not? This has no effect on you as a fan does it? In the end, he's only going to help not only the business side but the basketball side. This is where I want his expertise. The Basketball side. He's a winner and he understands what you need to win. He's been places only Olshey dreams of going. Olshey thinks he has an idea on how to get there but really until he get's there, he has no idea. Jackson can only help him and this organization reach the goals they are striving for.

For the life of me, I just don't get the opposition to such a move. Makes no sense.
 
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RedHotRollin said:
You didn't answer the question though, Niko. Why does it matter who runs the business side? Why does it matter to you if he's qualfied or not? This has no effect on you as a fan does it? In the end, he's only going to help not only the business side but the basketball side. This is where I want his expertise. The Basketball side. He's a winner and he understands what you need to win. He's been places only Olshey dreams of going. Olshey thinks he has an idea on how to get there but really until he get's there, he has no idea. Jackson can only help him and this organization reach the goals they are striving for.

For the life of me, I just don't get the opposition to such a move. Makes no sense.
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Actually I worry that he's not all that interested in the business side and in fact has a keener interest in the ops side. If that's the case then it creates an inherent power struggle between he and Olshey ... and that's usually bad for an organization.

So to sum up:

1. He's not qualified to run the business side so why spend the extra money he'd command?
2. He's probably interested in meddling in the ops side which would undermine Portland's shiny new GM
3. Portland's upper echelon of power is fucked up and confusing enough as it is, why add more layers of horse-shit to it?
 
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Nikolokolus said:
1. He's not qualified to run the business side so why spend the extra money he'd command?
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neither are many presidents, half of them are owners sons...and not your money, so why even care about that?

2. He's probably interested in meddling in the ops side which would undermine Portland's shiny new GM
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no way to know this, reeks of paranoia, etc

he very well could be looking for that shiny label and a cool couple million to play golf and talk shit

3. Portland's upper echelon of power is fucked up and confusing enough as it is, why add more layers of horse-shit to it?
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now this i can get behind, im kinda liking the thing olsheys got going right now although...they are gonna hire SOMEONE eventually right? so isnt that person going to add layers of the horseshit on top anyways?
 
RedHotRollin said:
You didn't answer the question though, Niko. Why does it matter who runs the business side? Why does it matter to you if he's qualfied or not? This has no effect on you as a fan does it? In the end, he's only going to help not only the business side but the basketball side. This is where I want his expertise. The Basketball side. He's a winner and he understands what you need to win. He's been places only Olshey dreams of going. Olshey thinks he has an idea on how to get there but really until he get's there, he has no idea. Jackson can only help him and this organization reach the goals they are striving for.

For the life of me, I just don't get the opposition to such a move. Makes no sense.
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You're not making sense. If he's not qualified, how's he going to help the business side?

And are you seriously trying to argue that the top executive of a team, the guy running the organization, doesn't effect the fans? Say what you will about Miller, but the guy kept butts in the seats last year and did quite well during the time he was here, not an easy task, especially with the situation he came into, and not something you can accomplish by merely being a figurehead due to past success as a coach. Being famous doesn't accomplish dick in that regard, just ask Larry Bird and Michael Jordan, both more famous than Phil will ever be. When Bird became President at Indiana there was literally no effect on attendance, looks like it went slightly down actually.

I'm all for having Phil in some capacity, but the more I think about it, President really seems like the worst position he could possibly have.
 
Nikolokolus said:
Actually I worry that he's not all that interested in the business side and in fact has a keener interest in the ops side. If that's the case then it creates an inherent power struggle between he and Olshey ... and that's usually bad for an organization.

So to sum up:

1. He's not qualified to run the business side so why spend the extra money he'd command?
2. He's probably interested in meddling in the ops side which would undermine Portland's shiny new GM
3. Portland's upper echelon of power is fucked up and confusing enough as it is, why add more layers of horse-shit to it?
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Why wouldn't you want a guy that has won 12 championships, who has a distinct idea on how to win, meddling in operations? Again, this makes no sense
 
noknobs said:
You're not making sense. If he's not qualified, how's he going to help the business side?

And are you seriously trying to argue that the top executive of a team, the guy running the organization, doesn't effect the fans? Say what you will about Miller, but the guy kept butts in the seats last year and did quite well during the time he was here, not an easy task, especially with the situation he came into, and not something you can accomplish by merely being a figurehead due to past success as a coach. Being famous doesn't accomplish dick in that regard, just ask Larry Bird and Michael Jordan, both more famous than Phil will ever be. When Bird became President at Indiana there was literally no effect on attendance, looks like it went slightly down actually.

I'm all for having Phil in some capacity, but the more I think about it, President really seems like the worst position he could possibly have.
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Larry Bird's first couple years though as head coach, I'm pretty sure helped sell tickets. As would Jackson sell tickets. His name would sell tickets. To say he isn't qualified for the job. Was Pat Riley and Larry Bird qualified when they first started? Probably not, But as time went on and the more they did the job they become more qualified. Phil is a highly intelligible guy. Intelligent enough to figure out with some help of course how he can make this organization and more so Paul Allen a profit. One of his closest friends does something similar for the Los Angeles Lakers. There is no question how much money that team makes. They make a butt load. And If I would have to bet, I would say she would be a close adviser to him.

The fact is we don't know what kind of success he is going to have. But based on his previous experiences with other positions in the game. I would give him a shot if for no other reason guys that he followed like Pat Riley and Larry Bird had great success in the same position. And even if he was made President. There is not saying that he would take sole responsibility over the business side. The Blazers very well could move Mensah up to take care more of that area. But with the pride and competitiveness that comes from one of the most arrogant men in the game. I would put my money on the idea that he will be a success.
 
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RedHotRollin said:
Why wouldn't you want a guy that has won 12 championships, who has a distinct idea on how to win, meddling in operations? Again, this makes no sense
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Because he's never been a personnel guy and has benefited probably more than a little by piggy-backing his career on 4 first ballot hall-of-famers (or maybe 5 if you want to include Gasol?). There is no evidence that he has any qualifications for anything other than coaching. The cosmic good luck to have Kobe, Pippen, Jordan and Shaq play for him doesn't necessarily mean he's instantly qualified to fill every role within a basketball organization.
 
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And secondly, why in God's name would Phil Jackson help sell tickets? I go to watch players, not executives. RHR, would you buy tickets just to gawk at Phil at Jackson sitting next to Paul Allen? If so, that's fine (and weird) but I think you wildly overestimate how much impact Phil's presence would have on business.
 
RedHotRollin said:
Larry Bird's first couple years though as head coach, I'm pretty sure helped sell tickets. As would Jackson sell tickets. His name would sell tickets. To say he isn't qualified for the job. Was Pat Riley and Larry Bird qualified when they first started? Probably not, But as time went on and the more they did the job they become more qualified. Phil is a highly intelligible guy. Intelligent enough to figure out with some help of course how he can make this organization and more so Paul Allen a profit. One of his closest friends does something similar for the Los Angeles Lakers. There is no question how much money that team makes. They make a butt load. And If I would have to bet, I would say she would be a close adviser to him.

The fact is we don't know what kind of success he is going to have. But based on his previous experiences with other positions in the game. I would give him a shot if for no other reason guys that he followed like Pat Riley and Larry Bird had great success in the same position. And even if he was made President. There is not saying that he would take sole responsibility over the business side. The Blazers very well could move Mensah up to take care more of that area. But with the pride and competitiveness that comes from one of the most arrogant men in the game. I would put my money on the idea that he will be a success.
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Because he's not the GM? Because we have a GM? Because he and Olshey would not get along if he kept getting in his way?

Seriously people, we've been bitching about having too many roosters in the hen house for the past few years, WHY would you want ANOTHER voice mucking things up? Don't forget, Bert Kolde is still there, Vulcan is still there, and now Olshey is there. Why would you want a guy who might cause even more problems?

We need someone who has no interest in the basketball side of things, and someone who knows how to run a fucking business successfully (because lord knows Paul Allen has no fucking clue how to run one).
 
RedHotRollin said:
Larry Bird's first couple years though as head coach, I'm pretty sure helped sell tickets. As would Jackson sell tickets. His name would sell tickets.
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But we're not talking about Phil as a head coach are we? So your argument is irrelevant. Not to mention you're wrong. Birds first year as head coach the team attendance improved a whopping 209/game, despite a win increase of 19. Yep, people flocked to see Larry Bird on the sideline, one can only imagine the droves that came to see him in an office.

I'm not disputing that Phil isn't intelligent and incapable of learning, but I'd prefer him to get his on the job training somewhere else and prove he knows how to run a business. Wish he'd just become our head coach and get it over with.
 
noknobs said:
But we're not talking about Phil as a head coach are we? So your argument is irrelevant. Not to mention you're wrong. Birds first year as head coach the team attendance improved a whopping 209/game, despite a win increase of 19. Yep, people flocked to see Larry Bird on the sideline, one can only imagine the droves that came to see him in an office.

I'm not disputing that Phil isn't intelligent and incapable of learning, but I'd prefer him to get his on the job training somewhere else and prove he knows how to run a business. Wish he'd just become our head coach and get it over with.
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Boom. This.
 
Some of the most intelligent people I know have made the worst leaders/presidents/CEOs. For someone to truly be effective in a position such as Trail Blazer president, I feel charisma, rapport, relevant experience is key to being successful. Jackson has never had to negotiate with an agent in his life - I'd be licking my chops if I was a player/coach agent going into a negotation with Jackson.

If nothing else, the fact this conversation is polarizing on this board tells me there has to be a better alternative out there.
 
Duckhook said:
Some of the most intelligent people I know have made the worst leaders/presidents/CEOs. For someone to truly be effective in a position such as Trail Blazer president, I feel charisma, rapport, relevant experience is key to being successful. Jackson has never had to negotiate with an agent in his life - I'd be licking my chops if I was a player/coach agent going into a negotation with Jackson.

If nothing else, the fact this conversation is polarizing on this board tells me there has to be a better alternative out there.
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I like how you know he's never had to negotiate with an agent in his life.

And why would the player/coach agent negotiate with the President? they deal with the GM
 
On the basketball side, PJ could help with recruiting. We know he won't coach without one superstar at the very least, so PJ the GMs-assistant could make the very real promise he Dwight Howard, for example, that he'd coach him if DH would sign.

Outside of this I think PJ would muck up the basketball side, and not want and not be good at the business side, which is the position actually open.
 
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