Philosophical question?

[Denny Crane]

Thanks. This, like the multiverse theory, requires blind faith to believe in since there's no actual evidence for it.

No scientist claims the multiverse theory is reality. The scientists who are working on it freely admit that it's purely a mathematical exercise.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Wait you want scripture?

Is that your reason? If so, fine.

 

[crowTrobot]

Thanks. This, like the multiverse theory, requires blind faith to believe in since there's no actual evidence for it.

well there's no hard evidence for a multiverse. the distrubution of matter in our universe in evidence for dark matter.

and again scientists in general don't claim to know these things with certainty and you're appealing to god-of-the-gaps.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

There are literally black, dead areas in the universe that are billions of light years wide that science has yet to provide a reasonable explanation for.

I hardly think it's fair to demand that science explain what's between your ears.

 

[MadeFromDust]

No scientist claims the multiverse theory is reality. The scientists who are working on it freely admit that it's purely a mathematical exercise.

I never said they claim it's a reality, it's nothing more than trying to explain away the obvious fine tuning observed in the physical universe. Because if there are trillions of universes then ours isn't so "special". Basically scientists these days are piling unprovable theories on top of each other in an attempt to explain a godless universe. Essentially flinging shit against the wall hoping something will stick.

 

[magnifier661]

Is that your reason? If so, fine.

The scripture and link to describe it was already posted by ABM. And you disagreeing that can be my belief "Using scripture from the Bible"; then you just gave me a catch-22 question. You haven't put my "Christian hat" on.

 

[crowTrobot]

Hmmm really?



http://www.christiananswers.net/creation/people/wilder-smith-ae.html



What are you talking about?!?!?

again, you're just making my point. i suspect you will have a very hard time finding a name on that list who is currently working in relevant fields (geology, biology, astrophysics or whatever) and would say the earth is not billions of years old. neither of those qualify.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

http://bible-truths.com/homosex.htm

Perhaps you could tell me what about that page that you find convincing, because, to be frank, it rambles a bit. Also, am I to understand that you had no firm beliefs about homosexuality before you came across that page or just that you don't think your beliefs are coherent enough for you to state them yourself?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

The scripture and link to describe it was already posted by ABM. And you disagreeing that can be my belief "Using scripture from the Bible"; then you just gave me a catch-22 question. You haven't put my "Christian hat" on.

Um... I literally don't know what your last two sentences mean. But are you saying that your reason for believing that "your God" condemns homosexuality is Leviticus 20:13? If that passage was not in the Bible, would you not be opposed to homosexuality, or do you think that there's just an overwhelming anti-homosexual subtext to the entire thing? (And if so, why?)

 

[Denny Crane]

I never said they claim it's a reality, it's nothing more than trying to explain away the obvious fine tuning observed in the physical universe. Because if there are trillions of universes then ours isn't so "special". Basically scientists these days are piling unprovable theories on top of each other in an attempt to explain a godless universe. Essentially flinging shit against the wall hoping something will stick.

When you hear static on the radio, you're hearing the afterglow of the big bang. You realize that, right?

 

[MadeFromDust]

well there's no hard evidence for a multiverse. the distrubution of matter in our universe in evidence for dark matter.

and again scientists in general don't claim to know these things with certainty and you're appealing to god-of-the-gaps.

No hard evidence for a multiverse is an understatement, no evidence would be more accurate. And as for dark matter, we don't know it's there, and we can't see it or observe it in any way, but of course it would help explain a godless universe so therefore it's a legitimate scientific theory. And God of the gaps arguments are only valid if you assume God doesn't exist, which is of course ridiculous given the evidence we have.

 

[MadeFromDust]

I hardly think it's fair to demand that science explain what's between your ears.

I love it when people start resorting to personal attacks. Lets me know the debates going my way.

 

[magnifier661]

Um... I literally don't know what your last two sentences mean. But are you saying that your reason for believing that "your God" condemns homosexuality is Leviticus 20:13? If that passage was not in the Bible, would you not be opposed to homosexuality, or do you think that there's just an overwhelming anti-homosexual subtext to the entire thing? (And if so, why?)

I have many homosexual friends, and I love them as much as I love my Christian brother. I don't know what point you are trying to make here. Do you even know what I believe?

 

[MadeFromDust]

When you hear static on the radio, you're hearing the afterglow of the big bang. You realize that, right?

A) My post had nothing to do with the big bang. B) the big bang does absolutely nothing to disprove God, in fact you can argue it only strengthens it considering it essentially proves the universe had a beginning. There's a reason it bummed out secular scientists in the 1920's when they discovered it.

 

[Denny Crane]

No hard evidence for a multiverse is an understatement, no evidence would be more accurate. And as for dark matter, we don't know it's there, and we can't see it or observe it in any way, but of course it would help explain a godless universe so therefore it's a legitimate scientific theory. And God of the gaps arguments are only valid if you assume God doesn't exist, which is of course ridiculous given the evidence we have.

Dark matter is observed and measured.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

All of this debating and we haven't even touched the teleological argument, aka atheist nightmare. But we have the multiverse theory to explain that one away too.

Which version of it do you espouse? Because I can't think of one that Hume didn't convincingly demolish in this. If you don't want to read that whole thing (you're missing out - it's a rip-snorter) I'd be willing to show you what's wrong with the version you find convincing.

 

[magnifier661]

again, you're just making my point. i suspect you will have a very hard time finding a name on that list who is currently working in relevant fields (geology, biology, astrophysics or whatever) and would say the earth is not billions of years old. neither of those qualify.

Physicist

Biology

Chemistry and Physics

Chemist

Molecular Biology

I just randomly picked a few. Would you like more?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I have many homosexual friends, and I love them as much as I love my Christian brother. I don't know what point you are trying to make here. Do you even know what I believe?

Believe it or not, I'm trying to find out. You seem incapable of answering questions directly.

 

[MadeFromDust]

Dark matter is observed and measured.

LOL! That picture is supposed to prove what exactly? Did someone go outside the boundaries of the universe and take some snapshots? Nothing about the universe is "proven" or "measured". Desperation setting in.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

When you hear static on the radio, you're hearing the afterglow of the big bang. You realize that, right?

Oh Denny, Denny. It's angels singing, you silly man.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

mags, prove that we arent all just brains in jars in some aliens grade school ant farm

 

[Denny Crane]

LOL! That picture is supposed to prove what exactly? Did someone go outside the boundaries of the universe and take some snapshots? Nothing about the universe is "proven" or "measured". Desperation setting in.

You don't have to be outside the "boundaries" of the Universe (hint: it has no boundaries) to detect dark matter. It has been demonstrated that light is bent by gravity. The effect of this bending, caused by dark matter, can be detected from right here on earth (or low earth orbit).

 

[SlyPokerDog]

LOL! That picture is supposed to prove what exactly? Did someone go outside the boundaries of the universe and take some snapshots? Nothing about the universe is "proven" or "measured". Desperation setting in.

Ewwwwww creepy, that was your 666th post.

 

[crowTrobot]

Physicist

Biology

Chemistry and Physics

Chemist

Molecular Biology

I just randomly picked a few. Would you like more?

i'd like you to have better reading comprehension so you didn't have to waste both our time.

 

[Denny Crane]

mags, prove that we arent all just brains in jars in some aliens grade school ant farm

We're not. We're brainiacs.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

This was a fascinating interview from a couple of nights ago if anyone wants to listen to it. Covered many of the same things you freaks have been talking about.

Theoretical physicist Lawrence M. Krauss joined John B. Wells (email) to discuss the origin of the universe and how it could have arisen from nothing. "We now can see a plausible way in which a universe can come from absolutely nothing without any creator," he said, adding that the aspects of our universe which can be measured are consistent with that conclusion. The word 'nothing' is a scientific term (not a philosophical one) that refers to empty space, or an area with zero total particles, Krauss noted. This space is not actually empty but is instead "a boiling bubbling brew of virtual particles—particles that fall in and out of existence at a time scale so short that you can't measure them," he explained. Space can pop in and out of existence and is where the dominant energy of the universe resides, Krauss revealed. The very laws governing the universe may have arisen spontaneously as well, and may be completely different in other universes, he added.

Krauss spoke about the difference between science and philosophy/religion, pointing out the unique role of science in probing empirical information about the world. While he believes it is presumptuous to say categorically, "There is no God," Krauss admitted there is no physical proof to suggest such a being exists. He further asserted that there is no evidence for intelligent design in biological life and in the universe. The Earth is teaming with diverse life forms of all different kinds, none of them designed, Krauss said. The amazing diversity of life on this planet arose solely by natural evolutionary mechanism without any celestial guidance, he declared. Krauss also talked about how dark energy may dominate the future of the universe, causing it to expand at a rate faster than the speed of light, as well as his expectation that Earth-like planets will be discovered within our lifetime, and perhaps some will even have life on them.

I downloaded it (illegally, lol) via bit torrent and it was a great listen. It's 3 15meg .MP3 files if anyone wants to listen to it and your email can handle 15meg attachments.

 

[MadeFromDust]

You don't have to be outside the "boundaries" of the Universe to detect dark matter.

(hint: it has no boundaries)

I'm not necessarily saying it does, but I don't know how you can possibly know that for a fact.

It has been demonstrated that light is bent by gravity. The effect of this bending, caused by dark matter, can be detected from right here on earth (or low earth orbit).

And yet there will never be a point where this is an unproven hypothesis. If dark matter did indeed explain the gaps observed in the universe, that would really do nothing to eliminate the need for a Creator.

 

[magnifier661]

Believe it or not, I'm trying to find out. You seem incapable of answering questions directly.

What question? I did answer it. Do you want more scripture? LMAO! What are you trying to prove? That God didn't say homosexuality was a sin?

Leviticus 18:22, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

Deuteronomy 23:17, "There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel."

Leviticus 20:13, "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

1 Kings 14:24, "And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel." <-- I hope you know what a sodomite is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy

Romans 1:26-32, "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."

1 Corinthians 6:9-11, "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

1 Timothy 1:9-10, "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;"

2 Peter 2:6, "And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;"

Jude 7, "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

So if you question it's even in the Bible, then I think I made or proved my point.

 

[MadeFromDust]

Which version of it do you espouse? Because I can't think of one that Hume didn't convincingly demolish in this. If you don't want to read that whole thing (you're missing out - it's a rip-snorter) I'd be willing to show you what's wrong with the version you find convincing.

Please paraphrase it for me if you will, I don't feel like dedicating my entire night to reading some 40 page long hypothesis.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

This was a fascinating interview from a couple of nights ago if anyone wants to listen to it. Covered many of the same things you freaks have been talking about.
I downloaded it (illegally, lol) via bit torrent and it was a great listen. It's 3 15meg .MP3 files if anyone wants to listen to it and your email can handle 15meg attachments.

Link here if anyone is a Coast to Coast AM member - http://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2012/01/14