Philosophical question?

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

space-photography-118.jpg


pillars.jpg


space-photography-123.jpg


Science is beautiful and 100% support it! And I think science will one day prove that this wasn't by chance. Not maybe in my lifetime, not maybe in 100 lifetimes; but one day.
 
So far, Denny just showed 3 very important pilgrims to science that had a very religious background.

Like Darwin?

I'm not sure what this is supposed to prove. It's pretty evident that the religious part of peoples' brains is entirely cut off from the rational part. There are great scientists who probably like Celine Dion, too.
 
So far, Denny just showed 3 very important pilgrims to science that had a very religious background.

What I think is that crowTrobot is pretty much spot on.

About the only thing he's written here so far that I don't think he's right about is whether a scientist can be religious. I'm not at all a fan or believer in religion, but I'm plenty tolerant of it and those who believe in it. To each his/her own. I do see that there's a pretty strong effort to wipe out religion, and that makes me uncomfortable. I believe religion is a mixed bag. Many of the greats in science, all along, were very religious fellows. And many of them had their research funded by the church. On the other hand, the church burned many good scientists at the stake for heresy.
 
Like Darwin?

I'm not sure what this is supposed to prove. It's pretty evident that the religious part of peoples' brains is entirely cut off from the rational part. There are great scientists who probably like Celine Dion, too.

Um, this proves nothing but the argument from "crow" said that only non-religious men have scientific relevance. I guess you didn't read back far enough.
 
What I think is that crowTrobot is pretty much spot on.

About the only thing he's written here so far that I don't think he's right about is whether a scientist can be religious. I'm not at all a fan or believer in religion, but I'm plenty tolerant of it and those who believe in it. To each his/her own. I do see that there's a pretty strong effort to wipe out religion, and that makes me uncomfortable. I believe religion is a mixed bag. Many of the greats in science, all along, were very religious fellows. And many of them had their research funded by the church. On the other hand, the church burned many good scientists at the stake for heresy.

That's cool that you agree with "Crow's take". I thanked you for being open minded enough to prove that science has had some very important figures that were very religious. There are some that knew this and would choose to not say a thing. <--- That's what I'm thanking you for.
 
space-photography-118.jpg


pillars.jpg


space-photography-123.jpg


Science is beautiful and 100% support it! And I think science will one day prove that this wasn't by chance. Not maybe in my lifetime, not maybe in 100 lifetimes; but one day.

I share your sentiments. What I find funny is how stars and matter are so unevenly distributed throughout the universe that that alone pretty much defies the random chance big bang. But I'm sure there is a "logical" and "rational" scientific explanation for it like everything else, because we humans just know everything about our universe. I don't know how someone can gaze up into the heavens and think there is no God.
 
Last edited:
I share your sentiments. What I find funny is how stars and matter are so unevenly distributed throughout the universe that that alone pretty much defies the random chance big bang. But I'm sure there is a "logical" and "rational" scientific explanation for it, because we humans just know everything about our universe. I don't know how someone can gaze up into the heavens and think there is no God.

And that everything must come to a balance and order. "Free-radical's" must find a host. It can't stay a "radical"
 
There's no reason to expect the Big Bang was some sort of even distribution. Roll the Yahtzee dice and you'll see they don't fall in some perfect pattern.
 
All of this debating and we haven't even touched the teleological argument, aka atheist nightmare. But we have the multiverse theory to explain that one away too.
 
Last edited:
This is a pretty cool take too.

Dr. Hauser began his research career in animal communication, working with vervet monkeys in Kenya and with birds. He is the author of a standard textbook on the subject, “The Evolution of Communication.” He began to take an interest in the human animal in 1992 after psychologists devised experiments that allowed one to infer what babies are thinking. He found he could repeat many of these experiments in cotton-top tamarins, allowing the cognitive capacities of infants to be set in an evolutionary framework.

His proposal of a moral grammar emerges from a collaboration with Dr. Chomsky, who had taken an interest in Dr. Hauser’s ideas about animal communication. In 2002 they wrote, with Dr. Tecumseh Fitch, an unusual article arguing that the faculty of language must have developed as an adaptation of some neural system possessed by animals, perhaps one used in navigation. From this interaction Dr. Hauser developed the idea that moral behavior, like language behavior, is acquired with the help of an innate set of rules that unfolds early in a child’s development.

Social animals, he believes, possess the rudiments of a moral system in that they can recognize cheating or deviations from expected behavior. But they generally lack the psychological mechanisms on which the pervasive reciprocity of human society is based, like the ability to remember bad behavior, quantify its costs, recall prior interactions with an individual and punish offenders. “Lions cooperate on the hunt, but there is no punishment for laggards,” Dr. Hauser said.

The moral grammar now universal among people presumably evolved to its final shape during the hunter-gatherer phase of the human past, before the dispersal from the ancestral homeland in northeast Africa some 50,000 years ago. This may be why events before our eyes carry far greater moral weight than happenings far away, Dr. Hauser believes, since in those days one never had to care about people remote from one’s environment.

Dr. Hauser believes that the moral grammar may have evolved through the evolutionary mechanism known as group selection. A group bound by altruism toward its members and rigorous discouragement of cheaters would be more likely to prevail over a less cohesive society, so genes for moral grammar would become more common.

Many evolutionary biologists frown on the idea of group selection, noting that genes cannot become more frequent unless they benefit the individual who carries them, and a person who contributes altruistically to people not related to him will reduce his own fitness and leave fewer offspring.

Again this isn't a creationist point of view, nor it's a Atheist's accepted theory. It's just another angle that questions both.
 
What I think is that crowTrobot is pretty much spot on.

About the only thing he's written here so far that I don't think he's right about is whether a scientist can be religious.

i don't think i said that, or didn't mean to. obviously many productive scientists were/are religious. about 40% of all scientists are theists.

what i said was no scientists working in relevant fields are young earth christians.
 
That's cool that you agree with "Crow's take". I thanked you for being open minded enough to prove that science has had some very important figures that were very religious. There are some that knew this and would choose to not say a thing.

it's not relevant.
 
http://www.allaboutphilosophy.org/morality.htm And I really like reading from this website.

Morality and Our Conscience
Morality impacts our everyday decisions, and those choices are directed by our conscience. Again, we must decide for ourselves where the conscience originates. Many people hold to the idea that the conscience is a matter of our hearts, that concepts of right, wrong, and fairness are "programmed" in each of us. This is in keeping with the writings of Paul the Apostle, who points out that even those who do not believe in God frequently obey God's laws as given in the Ten Commandments: "for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them" (Romans 2:14-15 (NKJV)). Again, those who do not believe in God are left with the only possible conclusion they can come to - that our decisions are based solely on our need to survive. What we call our conscience, then, would be based on learned behavior, rather than part of a Divine design.
 
it's not relevant.

Actually it's very relevant. It is showing that you actually don't know. And then you say "Right Now" and Denny posted the relevance of productive scientists being committed to their faith; proving once again that there are "relevant" scientists in the field today that are still deeply committed in their faith.

Hey you may have points about your theories but don't build straw man to influence this thread.
 
Um, this proves nothing but the argument from "crow" said that only non-religious men have scientific relevance.

lol where did that come from? i said people responsible for the arguments on creationist websites etc. you are getting your ideas from aren't scientists and frequently misrepresent the positions of working scientists. for example few scientists would agree the matter/energy that now exists had an absolute beginning or must have appeared from nothing, yet you at least twice implied it was scientific consensus. also you're mis-conflating elements of different theories like spacetime and quantum mechanics without realizing it, trying to make non-existent points.

you won't be able to make any point if you don't know what the theories you are referring to actually say. just trying to help you out here : )
 
There's no reason to expect the Big Bang was some sort of even distribution. Roll the Yahtzee dice and you'll see they don't fall in some perfect pattern.

There are literally black, dead areas in the universe that are billions of light years wide that science has yet to provide a reasonable explanation for.
 
There's no reason to expect the Big Bang was some sort of even distribution. Roll the Yahtzee dice and you'll see they don't fall in some perfect pattern.

But they do fall and must follow the law of gravity!!! LOL, I know, I'm reaching. <-- insert :MARIS:
 
lol where did that come from? i said people responsible for the arguments on creationist websites etc. you are getting your ideas from aren't scientists and frequently misrepresent the positions of working scientists. for example few scientists would agree the matter/energy that now exists had an absolute beginning or must have appeared from nothing, yet you at least twice implied it was scientific consensus. also you're mis-conflating elements of different theories like spacetime and quantum mechanics without realizing it, trying to make non-existent points.

you won't be able to make any point if you don't know what the theories you are referring to actually say. just trying to help you out here : )

oh my mistake:

if you mean YEC's there's a handful out of millions, none of them working in relevant fields, but that's not the point. the incoherent arguments mags is trying to paraphrase from creationist material are not written by working scientists, and misrepresent what working scientists would say.
 
There are literally black, dead areas in the universe that are billions of light years wide that science has yet to provide a reasonable explanation for.

factoring in theoretical dark matter the distribution of visible matter in the universe is what we would expect it to be. it's a mystery what dark matter might be, but its existence is a reasonable explanation for the facts.

even if that weren't true you're just appealing to god-of-the-gaps.
 
yeah ABM just posted that list. if you research the names it will just prove my point.

I did research the list of names. That site lists 300 YECs who have masters degrees and work in relevant fields. It lists 150 who have at least on PhD.
 
yeah ABM just posted that list. if you research the names it will just prove my point.

Hmmm really?

Larry Vardiman

Creationist
Astrophysicist and geophysicist
M.S. and Ph.D. in Atmospheric Science from Colorado State University (1972, 1974)
B.S. in meteorology from St. Louis University (1967)
B.S. in physics from the University of Missouri (1965)
Former Academic Dean and Chairman of Physical Sciences and Mathematics at Christian Heritage College, Santee, CA
Member: American Meteorological Society
Author of various papers related to cloud physics and meteorology
Chairman of Astro/Geophysics Department of the Institute for Creation Research Graduate School (beginning Summer 1989)

http://www.christiananswers.net/creation/people/wilder-smith-ae.html

Arthur Ernest Wilder-Smith

Creationist
Chemist
Ph.D. in physical organic chemistry at University of Reading, England (1941)
Dr.es.Sc. in pharmacological sciences from Eidgenossische Technische Hochschule (Swiss Federal Institute of Technology) in Zurich
D.Sc. in pharmacological sciences from University of Geneva (1964)
F.R.I.C. (Fellow of the Royal Institute of Chemistry)
Professorships held at numerous institutions including: University of Illinois Medical School Center (Visiting Full Professor of Pharmacology, 1959-61, received 3 “Golden Apple” awards for the best course of lectures), University of Geneva School of Medicine, University of Bergen (Norway) School of Medicine, Hacettepe University (Ankara, Turkey) Medical School, etc.
Former Director of Research for a Swiss pharmaceutical company
Presented the 1986 Huxley Memorial Lecture at the invitation of the University of Oxford
Author or co-author of over 70 scientific publications and more than 30 books published in 17 languages
NATO three-star general
Lecturer
Deceased
Dr. Wilder-Smith was featured in an award-winning film/video series called ORIGINS: How the World Came to Be (shown widely throughout North America, Australia, and televised nationally in South Africa, Russia, and throughout the former Soviet Union).

What are you talking about?!?!?
 
factoring in theoretical dark matter the distribution of visible matter in the universe is what we would expect it to be. it's a mystery what dark matter might be, but its existence is a reasonable explanation for the facts.

even if that weren't true you're just appealing to god-of-the-gaps.

Thanks. This, like the multiverse theory, requires blind faith to believe in since there's no actual evidence for it.
 
Denny I really like your approach to this debate and others regarding creation or non-creationists topics. You are trying to look at it from different angles; thinking outside the box. And we might not agree, but I can seriously respect you and listen to what you have to say with an open mind.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top