Notice Time to change your legislation regarding carrying weapons

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Only a mentally ill person could object to a cure as simple as having an armed guard protecting every school in America.

One guard or two? Big schools get 3? Awesome. Armed, trained, full time. Got it. So maybe between $80,000 - $250,000 a year per school. Easy. So never mind we have teachers buying their own pencils. Let’s pay for armed guards.
 
Of course guns aren't allowed at schools. Its not about that. Its about mentally ill people should not have access to or allowed to own guns. They are not capable of being responsible for them and should therefore not have them.

Please go to the Righteous only thread and make your contribution.
 
I feel like I need to ask:

Is it ok to stipulate that I'm all for better background checks, if you don't ever by legislation put me in a position where I am unarmed at the mercy of a criminal? Personally I'm all for people who violently protest something to have rights to weapons taken away, and people who've committed felonies, etc. I know that's not popular or legal, but maybe that's going to change. What I fail to see any of the "gun control/removal" advocates acknowledge is that mass shootings only happen when there aren't legally-held firearms. They happen at churches, at schools, at malls, at recruiting centers, at military installations, at discos and concerts with metal detectors. Personally, I feel that you as gun control advocates are doing us as a society a huge disservice by assuming that legislating "good" people's use of arms is arbitrary and can get taken away.

You know where I don't see mass shootings happen? With politicians or celebrities with protective details. Gabby Giffords did not have armed personnel escort her (for whatever reason) and Jared Loughner got off about 30 shots before he was tackled by an old Army Colonel. When Reagan was shot Hinckley was taken down within 3 seconds. He didn't have time to "mass shoot" people. When the church shooter last year in TX stopped wasn't after he'd run out of ammo, but after someone with a gun engaged him and he drove off wounded to commit suicide. The Clackamas Town Center shooting only stopped when the shooter wanted, maybe b/c guns aren't allowed there.

Personally, I believe all people have sin and evil in them that is only mitigated through societal mores and/or religious adhesion. I know that many people believe that "all people are inherently good". I don't know why the "inherently good" people have a problem with more "inherently good" people having weapons around.
 
I feel like I need to ask:

Is it ok to stipulate that I'm all for better background checks, if you don't ever by legislation put me in a position where I am unarmed at the mercy of a criminal? Personally I'm all for people who violently protest something to have rights to weapons taken away, and people who've committed felonies, etc. I know that's not popular or legal, but maybe that's going to change. What I fail to see any of the "gun control/removal" advocates acknowledge is that mass shootings only happen when there aren't legally-held firearms. They happen at churches, at schools, at malls, at recruiting centers, at military installations, at discos and concerts with metal detectors. Personally, I feel that you as gun control advocates are doing us as a society a huge disservice by assuming that legislating "good" people's use of arms is arbitrary and can get taken away.

You know where I don't see mass shootings happen? With politicians or celebrities with protective details. Gabby Giffords did not have armed personnel escort her (for whatever reason) and Jared Loughner got off about 30 shots before he was tackled by an old Army Colonel. When Reagan was shot Hinckley was taken down within 3 seconds. He didn't have time to "mass shoot" people. When the church shooter last year in TX stopped wasn't after he'd run out of ammo, but after someone with a gun engaged him and he drove off wounded to commit suicide. The Clackamas Town Center shooting only stopped when the shooter wanted, maybe b/c guns aren't allowed there.

Personally, I believe all people have sin and evil in them that is only mitigated through societal mores and/or religious adhesion. I know that many people believe that "all people are inherently good". I don't know why the "inherently good" people have a problem with more "inherently good" people having weapons around.

@BrianFromWA will now be my armed personnel escort at all forum functions!
 
Nobody cares if good people have their guns and get to sit in their rooms and shine their pistols and sleep tight. Go for it. Gun legislation isn’t about taking guns away. That’s exactly what the NRA wants desperately for people to think. It’s about making it harder to get a gun, enforcing the rules we have, closing loopholes, making it very clear that gun owners can’t lay their toys around or unlocked so Junior can take it, and at the SAME time hey let’s tackle shitty FBI/Police response to known crazies, tighten up school security etc. I have three sons - 11,8,5. I literally can park my car in front of the school, open the door (far left, the other three doors are locked but just go left) walk by the office (or not, just sign in and throw a sticker on), and I could have accesss to the entire school. Maybe let’s not do it this way?

You have to do all of it.
 
Nobody cares if good people have their guns and get to sit in their rooms and shine their pistols and sleep tight. Go for it. Gun legislation isn’t about taking guns away.
But you see, it is. My legal ability to have a weapons is taken away every time I step on base, or in a movie theater, or in a recruiting center, or in a mall, or in a concert, or ... That means that when someone attacks the Navy Yard, or an Islamic terrorist shoots up an Army base, or attacks a recruiting center (all places where "gun legislation" has "taken away" the "legal right to possess a gun") there are many people killed instead of a one or two plus the shooter.

That’s exactly what the NRA wants desperately for people to think.
I don't know or care what the NRA wants, it's about knowledge of society and your personal worldview on good v. evil.

It’s about making it harder to get a gun, enforcing the rules we have, closing loopholes, making it very clear that gun owners can’t lay their toys around or unlocked so Junior can take it, and at the SAME time hey let’s tackle shitty FBI/Police response to known crazies, tighten up school security etc. I have three sons - 11,8,5. I literally can park my car in front of the school, open the door (far left, the other three doors are locked but just go left) walk by the office (or not, just sign in and throw a sticker on), and I could have accesss to the entire school. Maybe let’s not do it this way?
OR, let's not make it so that when you do pull up in front of school and walk in the unlocked door bent on a shooting rampage, that people trying to protect kids are not legally mandated to have their weapons (if they own them) taken away from them where they spend 9+hours a day? I'm not saying to buy every teacher a Glock (like someone said before). I'm asking you to not restrict a teacher or coach or security guard from bringing their Glock with them to do their job.

You have to do all of it.
 
Personally, I believe all people have sin and evil in them that is only mitigated through societal mores and/or religious adhesion.

I picked this line to quote because of it's truth and in spite of this, the founders had the wisdom to recognize these imperfect beings, to have the right to protect themselves and those they protect, including their family's, society, and country.

I look forward to the responses you receive.
 
Do the teachers in Holland or Canada or wherever else carry glocks? I have a hard time thinking we combat a gun problem with more guns. And then when everyone has a gun, the “bad guys” will have bigger better guns or bombs and then we will make sure teachers can bring bigger guns so we can just outshoot each other. It’s insane.
 
Do the teachers in Holland or Canada or wherever else carry glocks? I have a hard time thinking we combat a gun problem with more guns. And then when everyone has a gun, the “bad guys” will have bigger better guns or bombs and then we will make sure teachers can bring bigger guns so we can just outshoot each other. It’s insane.
The people protecting schools in Afghanistan do. Then again, I don't know how many people in Holland or Canada attack schools like they do here in the US and AFG. :dunno:

I ate every single meal for two years in a chow hall filled with people from around 15 different countries...all of whom were armed. Not a single "mass shooting" incident. The one time someone (not in the chow hall) drew their weapon and fired they were immediately struck down by three other armed individuals.

What I'm postulating is that, while the football coach is a hero for using his body to shield a student's, he may have been able to protect a bunch more who were killed or wounded if he had the opportunity to be armed while he was being slaughtered.
 
The people protecting schools in Afghanistan do. Then again, I don't know how many people in Holland or Canada attack schools like they do here in the US and AFG. :dunno:

I ate every single meal for two years in a chow hall filled with people from around 15 different countries...all of whom were armed. Not a single "mass shooting" incident. The one time someone (not in the chow hall) drew their weapon and fired they were immediately struck down by three other armed individuals.

What I'm postulating is that, while the football coach is a hero for using his body to shield a student's, he may have been able to protect a bunch more who were killed or wounded if he had the opportunity to be armed while he was being slaughtered.
It's different when you're in the military...let me ask you this...would you feel safer sending your own children to school in Afghanistan where everyone is armed or say Taipei American school where guns are not allowed for private purchase or to be carried in public.....which place would innocent students be actually less likely to be shot
 
It's different when you're in the military
Why?? I'm under more restrictions to have a weapon in the military than some asshole civilian out in town is. Why should I be able to eat armed in a chow hall in AFG but not in one at the Navy Yard where people actually come in and shoot at me? I can carry in Baghdad but I can't carry on MacDill AFB. I can sleep with a pistol in my hand in a tent in Helmand Province but not on the Submarine Base.

...let me ask you this...would you feel safer sending your own children to school in Afghanistan where everyone is armed or say Taipei American school where guns are not allowed for private purchase or to be carried in public.....which place would innocent students be actually less likely to be shot
I don't know Taipei. What I do know from the military is the concept of Operational Risk Management. And I feel that, in the very unlikely (statistically insignificant, though tell the families of the victims that) event that someone does something at a school that requires security guard intervention, it's almost criminal to legislate that they have security duties but cannot be armed to perform them. Maybe in Taipei they never have criminals attack schools. Here they do. But here they also legislate that when criminals attack schools, people who are charged with protecting them cannot be armed, so they generally die. Along with lots of students.
 
Why?? I'm under more restrictions to have a weapon in the military than some asshole civilian out in town is. Why should I be able to eat armed in a chow hall in AFG but not in one at the Navy Yard where people actually come in and shoot at me? I can carry in Baghdad but I can't carry on MacDill AFB. I can sleep with a pistol in my hand in a tent in Helmand Province but not on the Submarine Base.

I realize you were asking for a justification why, but I'd be interested in the simpler why: what rule is it that restricts you from doing so?

barfo
 
Why?? I'm under more restrictions to have a weapon in the military than some asshole civilian out in town is. Why should I be able to eat armed in a chow hall in AFG but not in one at the Navy Yard where people actually come in and shoot at me? I can carry in Baghdad but I can't carry on MacDill AFB. I can sleep with a pistol in my hand in a tent in Helmand Province but not on the Submarine Base.


I don't know Taipei. What I do know from the military is the concept of Operational Risk Management. And I feel that, in the very unlikely (statistically insignificant, though tell the families of the victims that) event that someone does something at a school that requires security guard intervention, it's almost criminal to legislate that they have security duties but cannot be armed to perform them. Maybe in Taipei they never have criminals attack schools. Here they do. But here they also legislate that when criminals attack schools, people who are charged with protecting them cannot be armed, so they generally die. Along with lots of students.
I understand your point but my question is which system in the long run is safer for future generations....safe enough to entrust your families lives to? As it is, ours is flawed or we wouldn't be burying innocent children. I'd give up my guns in a heartbeat if the world agreed to disarm....which I know is a pipe dream
 
I realize you were asking for a justification why, but I'd be interested in the simpler why: what rule is it that restricts you from doing so?

barfo
Department of Defense (DoD) Directive 5210.56, signed into effect in February 1992 by Donald J. Atwood, deputy secretary of defense under President George H.W. Bush states that “it is DoD Policy” to “limit and control the carrying of firearms by DoD military and civilian personnel.” “The authorization to carry firearms shall be issued only to qualified personnel when there is a reasonable expectation that life or DoD assets will be jeopardized if firearms are not carried,”
DoD Directive 5210.56 was reissued in April 2011 by Deputy Secretary of Defense William J. Lynn III.
Army Regulation 190-14, a policy implemented in 1993 that changed policy regarding carrying firearms on the Army’s military bases
 
Department of Defense (DoD) Directive 5210.56, signed into effect in February 1992 by Donald J. Atwood, deputy secretary of defense under President George H.W. Bush states that “it is DoD Policy” to “limit and control the carrying of firearms by DoD military and civilian personnel.” “The authorization to carry firearms shall be issued only to qualified personnel when there is a reasonable expectation that life or DoD assets will be jeopardized if firearms are not carried,”
DoD Directive 5210.56 was reissued in April 2011 by Deputy Secretary of Defense William J. Lynn III.
Army Regulation 190-14, a policy implemented in 1993 that changed policy regarding carrying firearms on the Army’s military bases

Cool, thanks for the info.

barfo
 
I understand your point but my question is which system in the long run is safer for future generations....safe enough to entrust your families lives to? As it is, ours is flawed or we wouldn't be burying innocent children. I'd give up my guns in a heartbeat if the world agreed to disarm....which I know is a pipe dream
That's the "worldview" point...I feel that, if the world did "disarm all guns", that there would be people dying with arrows or swords or sticks or bombs or.... b/c people are inherently evil and selfish and generally go through a "self-preservation" mode check before doing something that would hurt others. In your scenario, I'd ask what would happen in Taipei if a Taliban member decided girls shouldn't go to school and came in with a suicide vest? Or a machete? I'm happy that it hasn't (to my knowledge) happened in Taipei. But I'd say that, for better or worse, and due to many things Calvin and others are pointing out, it is happening here just like it is in AFG, not like it is in Taipei.
 
I'd ask what would happen in Taipei if a Taliban member decided girls shouldn't go to school and came in with a suicide vest? Or a machete?
The Taiwanese National Guard and Taipei Police and Swat team would deal with it full force....happened with a kidnapped celebrity case back in the 90s....gangsters...nobody is stabbing students in Taipei schools....one mentally ill guy stabbed 4 people on the subway years back. You can walk anywhere anytime of night in the city unarmed and it would be extremely rare to feel unsafe...citizens don't have guns or feel a need for them..
 
The Taiwanese National Guard and Taipei Police and Swat team would deal with it full force....happened with a kidnapped celebrity case back in the 90s....gangsters...nobody is stabbing students in Taipei schools....one mentally ill guy stabbed 4 people on the subway years back.
That's awesome that there's an armed force to deal with this (just as there's a Columbine Police Dept, an Aurora PD, a Sandy Hook SWAT team)...but what happens in the 5-30 minutes it takes those guys to show up? In FL this week a bunch of students and teachers were killed because it took almost half an hour for armed personnel to show up. Those trying to protect children were killed due to being unarmed. Some students said they were hiding in a closet for hours.

If Parkland HS had been in the middle of Taipei, do you think that Nicolas Cruz would've killed as many as he did? Or would the similar lag time of 911 call-to-police/SWAT/NG arrival would've meant about the same # would've died, and the Taiwanese are just lucky that they don't have mentally unstable people walking around?
 
That's awesome that there's an armed force to deal with this (just as there's a Columbine Police Dept, an Aurora PD, a Sandy Hook SWAT team)...but what happens in the 5-30 minutes it takes those guys to show up? In FL this week a bunch of students and teachers were killed because it took almost half an hour for armed personnel to show up. Those trying to protect children were killed due to being unarmed. Some students said they were hiding in a closet for hours.

If Parkland HS had been in the middle of Taipei, do you think that Nicolas Cruz would've killed as many as he did? Or would the similar lag time of 911 call-to-police/SWAT/NG arrival would've meant about the same # would've died, and the Taiwanese are just lucky that they don't have mentally unstable people walking around?
That 19 year old would not have been able to purchase a gun or ammo in Taiwan...that's what would happen..they have mentally unstable people like everywhere else...but not guns
 
I would not.
in order for that to work, you wouldn't have a choice in the matter..no one would..otherwise it's just status quo standoffs for eternity...war ever stops being a world sport....we might actually do some good on this planet for a change
 
in order for that to work, you wouldn't have a choice in the matter..no one would..otherwise it's just status quo standoffs for eternity...war ever stops being a world sport....we might actually do some good on this planet for a change


Actually river, if I would change my position, I think you would lose.
 

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