Philosophical question?

[magnifier661]

It's the truth that if you believe in evolution you are ok with holocaust? Ok...

What does "ok" mean? You don't believe in "Survival of the fittest?" If you don't then the entire theory of evolution has just become "debunked"

 

[magnifier661]

What is your point? That atheists can murder too? People can use anything, be it Christianity, Islam, Communism, etc, to justify their actions. That is not unique to Atheists. You also fail to mention that the world population in the 20th century was way higher than during the crusades or any other time in history? The fact that we can now kill millions with one bomb also should be mentioned.

You are 1000% correct. Every belief can be abused. Christians can kill because they twist God's teachings. Atheists or "Evolutionists" or "Naturalists" or any "ists" can twist anything to justify their actions. They just have to be extremely good at selling it to enough people to support their beliefs.

 

[magnifier661]

That doesn't at all address, though, the huge disparity in populations. What was the population of the world in 10 AD? Compared to during WWII?

Okay so killing a million people that was maybe 10% of the population, killing a thousand people that was 50% of the population or killing 1 person that is 1,000,000th a percent of the population. Which was worse?

 

[crowTrobot]

what don't you understand. What do you need me to clearify? "What?" is too generalized.

what you posted is nonsensical.

What gives you the right to think otherwise? Are you superior to them? Was it morally right to put all of them (The Nazi extremists) to death for what the majority worly opinion believes was morally wrong?

again you're saying you aren't capable of determining genocide is immoral on your own. you need god to tell you that. that's pretty sad.

Sounds logically idiotic doesn't it?

the argument you're trying to make does, yes.

 

[Sedatedfork]

Okay so killing a million people that was maybe 10% of the population, killing a thousand people that was 50% of the population or killing 1 person that is 1,000,000th a percent of the population. Which was worse?

Fuck Cain!

 

[3RA1N1AC]

when we execute a person who was convicted of murdering a known murderer, does that mean three wrongs make a right?

is it ok to murder a chicken and devour its flesh, but not okay for two roosters to fight to the death over mating territory? how about two humans?

how many people would you kill to save the life of your child? 13? a million? all of them?

heavy man

 

[RR7]

Okay so killing a million people that was maybe 10% of the population, killing a thousand people that was 50% of the population or killing 1 person that is 1,000,000th a percent of the population. Which was worse?

I'm not making an argument for which is worse. It seemed that by stating how many people atheists killed, versus Christians, that ORL2 WAS making that claim, however.

 

[magnifier661]

what you posted is nonsensical.

Why is it foolish? Telling me I'm foolish without proving I am in definition is actually making you look "nonsensical". I think I've done a pretty good job with explaining my opinion. You, on the other hand, would rather tell someone they are stupid because you can't clearly explain why they are stupid. Sounds a little hypocritical don't you agree? Oh wait, maybe you can pick on my grammer or inability of explaining the sqaure root of 1,300,000? Will that make me stupid?

again you're saying you aren't capable of determining genocide is immoral on your own. you need god to tell you that. that's pretty sad.

Don't avoid the reality. You admit you have "God" in you. Because right from wrong has always been there and you are capable of determining it. NOW WE ARE GETTING SOMEWHERE! Praise the Lord!

 

[magnifier661]

I'm not making an argument for which is worse. It seemed that by stating how many people atheists killed, versus Christians, that ORL2 WAS making that claim, however.

And you have a very good claim. I take the stand that all are equally immoral.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

i think babies born on an island without knowledge of god or sin would do whatever the fuck they wanted to, and not think twice about it. they would fight for food or mates, and if the fights ended in death, so be it.

 

[magnifier661]

when we execute a person who was convicted of murdering a known murderer, does that mean three wrongs make a right?

is it ok to murder a chicken and devour its flesh, but not okay for two roosters to fight to the death over mating territory? how about two humans?

how many people would you kill to save the life of your child? 13? a million? all of them?

heavy man

That is the reason why you have that moniker. You understand what I am trying to say! Love ya man!

 

[MadeFromDust]

I'm not making an argument for which is worse. It seemed that by stating how many people atheists killed, versus Christians, that ORL2 WAS making that claim, however.

The point I was trying to make is that the track record for atheist leaders and societies is terrible, especially when people here want to claim that they have no problems discerning "right" and "wrong" moral values. And 130 million murders is indeed worse than 17 million.

 

[RR7]

Why is it foolish? Telling me I'm foolish without proving I am in definition is actually making you look "nonsensical".

Definition is lacking good sense, ridiculous, silly.
To state that believing in evolution thus makes you ok with the holocaust is, by definition, foolish.

 

[magnifier661]

Definition is lacking good sense, ridiculous, silly.
To state that believing in evolution thus makes you ok with the holocaust is, by definition, foolish.

Oh really? How so? Do you believe in the "Survival of the Fittest?" You are generalizing popular belief as the measurement of "morality" this sentence alone proves that. Why is it okay for a Lion to kill their weak, when "They know not what is humanly moral"? Why would a fish kill be a cannibal if humanity believes eating our own is immoral? Why can we accept nature, but humanity has another set of rules? What makes us so special?

 

[RR7]

The point I was trying to make is that the track record for atheist leaders and societies is terrible, especially when people here want to claim that they have no problems discerning "right" and "wrong" moral values. And 130 million murders is indeed worse than 17 million.

How is the track record for christian ones any better, then? 130 million os worse than 17, sure. I can get down with that. But, the figure is likely 130 million and 17 million because of the respective populations of the world at those times. If there were twice as many people in Germany during Hitler's time, it's believable, to me, that the number killed might be close to doubled as well. likewise, if instead of, generically, there being a population of 1 million people in 50BC, there were 7 billion, then that 17 million number, I'm guessing, would be a lot higher.

That isn't to say one murderer wipes out 1 person in a room of 10, and another 10 in a room of 100 are equal, if they wanted that specific number. But, if you commit genocide on a city, the number dead can only reflect the population at the time. With god behind them helping in the killing, had there have been more non-believers around, their numbers would be higher.

 

[porkchopexpress]

The point I was trying to make is that the track record for atheist leaders and societies is terrible, especially when people here want to claim that they have no problems discerning "right" and "wrong" moral values. And 130 million murders is indeed worse than 17 million.

Where did you come up with 130M vs 17M?

 

[RR7]

Oh really? How so? Do you believe in the "Survival of the Fittest?" You are generalizing popular belief as the measurement of "morality" this sentence alone proves that. Why is it okay for a Lion to kill their weak, when "They know not what is humanly moral"? Why would a fish kill be a cannibal if humanity believes eating our own is immoral? Why can we accept nature, but humanity has another set of rules? What makes us so special?

wow.
Uhm, I believe in evolution. I believe that our species evolved to where we currently are, and are continuing to evolve. I don't think it is acceptable to murder millions of people. if somehow you equate those that believe in evolution with supporting or being ok with the holocaust, or genocide in general, well, I dunno what to tell you. I don't.

 

[magnifier661]

Where did you come up with 130M vs 17M?

Okay let's make it 50,000,000 people where killed by acts of Christian extremests and only 30 were killed in the act of Atheism. What's morally worse?

 

[3RA1N1AC]

i hope nobody is actually getting pissed up in here, mags is playing devils advocate to the tee! bravo fine sir!

 

[MadeFromDust]

How is the track record for christian ones any better, then? 130 million os worse than 17, sure. I can get down with that. But, the figure is likely 130 million and 17 million because of the respective populations of the world at those times. If there were twice as many people in Germany during Hitler's time, it's believable, to me, that the number killed might be close to doubled as well. likewise, if instead of, generically, there being a population of 1 million people in 50BC, there were 7 billion, then that 17 million number, I'm guessing, would be a lot higher.

That isn't to say one murderer wipes out 1 person in a room of 10, and another 10 in a room of 100 are equal, if they wanted that specific number. But, if you commit genocide on a city, the number dead can only reflect the population at the time. With god behind them helping in the killing, had there have been more non-believers around, their numbers would be higher.

I'm going based upon what history has proven. The Western world was founded on Christian values, and atheist societies haven't been pretty.

 

[magnifier661]

wow.
Uhm, I believe in evolution. I believe that our species evolved to where we currently are, and are continuing to evolve. I don't think it is acceptable to murder millions of people. if somehow you equate those that believe in evolution with supporting or being ok with the holocaust, or genocide in general, well, I dunno what to tell you. I don't.

Do you believe in "Survival of the Fittest"? It's really a simple question.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

is it worse to murder two rapists or one rapist? an argument could be made either way

 

[MadeFromDust]

Where did you come up with 130M vs 17M?

I didn't come up with anything, it's a historical fact. Google it.

 

[Sedatedfork]

Do you believe in "Survival of the Fittest"? It's really a simple question.

I think there's a pretty big difference between natural selection (i.e. the more dominant and fit surviving over the less fit) and unnatural selection (a calculated decision by a person or culture that one particular type of person or species should be exterminated). By the way, Hitler committed suicide, so he must not have thought he was that fit in the end.

 

[RR7]

I'm going based upon what history has proven. The Western world was founded on Christian values, and atheist societies haven't been pretty.

So we use the western world, and count their death totals, or just specific ones? How do you get to that number. Is the US is founded on christian values, then deaths caused by US in some form count as deaths caused by christians? How does that work exactly to get your number. Or is it just the society as whole? The leader? Deaths under their watch?

 

[magnifier661]

I think there's a pretty big difference between natural selection (i.e. the more dominant and fit surviving over the less fit) and unnatural selection (a calculated decision by a person or culture that one particular type of person or species should be exterminated). By the way, Hitler committed suicide, so he must not have thought he was that fit in the end.

They are the same species Zybot. Darwism definition of "Survival of the Fittest" means that a species evolves into a better version of that species, then kills the weaker species. You disagree that it says that?

 

[magnifier661]

i hope nobody is actually getting pissed up in here, mags is playing devils advocate to the tee! bravo fine sir!

Thanks for seeing what I am trying to accomplish. It's funny that people are thinking my arguments are Christian. I doubt any Christian would even make the arguments I am making right now.

 

[RR7]

Do you believe in "Survival of the Fittest"? It's really a simple question.

see zybot's response. Natural selection, versus unnatural.

 

[magnifier661]

I think there's a pretty big difference between natural selection (i.e. the more dominant and fit surviving over the less fit) and unnatural selection (a calculated decision by a person or culture that one particular type of person or species should be exterminated). By the way, Hitler committed suicide, so he must not have thought he was that fit in the end.

Oh and um, I don't think anyone in here is truly agreeing that Hilter's actions were just. This is why people are pissed that I am compairing Darwin's theory to the mass genocide of Jews.

 

[crowTrobot]

Why is it foolish? Telling me I'm foolish without proving I am in definition is actually making you look "nonsensical". I think I've done a pretty good job with explaining my opinion. You, on the other hand, would rather tell someone they are stupid because you can't clearly explain why they are stupid. Sounds a little hypocritical don't you agree? Oh wait, maybe you can pick on my grammer or inability of explaining the sqaure root of 1,300,000? Will that make me stupid?

i'm not trying to make you look stupid. the examples you've been trying to use to demonstrate your argument aren't coherent. my moral views aren't dictated by 'survival of the fittest' or majority rule, nor is there any logical reason to think they necessarily should be.

Don't avoid the reality. You admit you have "God" in you. Because right from wrong has always been there and you are capable of determining it. NOW WE ARE GETTING SOMEWHERE! Praise the Lord!

i think genocide is immoral because i value human life and well-being, in particular my own. that's a matter of simple common sense. there's no mysterious inner voice telling me what's right or wrong.