Pick a lane, Joe

[SharpesTriumph]

Being in that talent acquisition lane and trading vets on the roster for less than their value are not one and the same.

How'd that work for Timelord last year?

I'd have much rather got a late FRP or whatever he was worth last year.

 

[1 Eye Jack]

I think the Blazers already have the lower value contracts on the lower value vets. If they can convert them to even lower value contract(s) while adding draft assets it's probably a good thing

Thought the new CBA made it harder to combine contracts and needed to be more 1 for 1

 

[sheed30]

Isn't this topic already being discussed here?
http://www.sportstwo.com/threads/are-we-still-tanking.384070/

exactly, basically the same thread. I think people like to see their own writing too much on here lmao.

How about discuses Sharpe's 3rd year and what improvements he needs to make, and that it being his 3rd year he should take a big leap..What Scoot needs to improve on and what is he doing during the summer to get better.

But nope, people trying try to play GM in here and quite frankly most are horrible at playing pretend GM on here lol.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

The trades need to happen, but only when it makes sense - and if the current roster for some reason fights for the play-in within a couple of months in the season, there are avenues to reduce the win total without giving these vets away.

It will be much harder to do this next season as a number of teams are already setup for hard tanking. They'll get those losses racked up early and we'll never catch them.

Plus these phantom injuries and GLeaguers starting is just horrific to watch as fans. I'd rather just watch our youth with maybe 1 vet try to win and play hard the whole season.

Makes no sense to start the year with all these vets when we don't even want or need any of their production/minutes/shots/salary/etc.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Thought the new CBA made it harder to combine contracts and needed to be more 1 for 1

This has no impact on the Blazers as we don't ever pay the luxury tax

 

[HoopsFanAZ]

I voted the first way because the choices didn’t have my preferred option.

Getting lower/lesser value for the vets doesn’t have to mean losing the trade. It’s following one’s priorities. This isn’t isn’t some bullsh*t changing terms or semantic game. It’s a rebuild through the draft, getting younger, and talent acquisition. Winning this year isn’t the priority. Tankorama. Tanktastic.

Waiting to trade Brogdon — who apparently liked Portland — was the right move. DENI.
Get reasonable value ASAP — 2 more trades before the season is about right. Grant + ?
By February? Ant.

 

[riverman]

I don't think Joe's done yet before training camp. I like everything he's done so far this off season. I don't think Grant gets moved or Ayton though. Ant and Timelord maybe. We'll see.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Fuck tanking. A high draft pick should be a consolation prize, not the goal.

Agreed. I don't want to tank. I want to get rid of the vets who aren't good enough to compete for championships (and who will prevent us from getting to that level) and replace them with young players who have the potential to become good enough to compete for championships.

This is why I would like to keep Thybulle. As well as Ayton. I think they can be solid pieces on a championship contender, or in Tisse's case, can at least help younger, more talented players learn to do the right things.

I think Grant and Simons get in the way of building that kind of team, so we should trade them for younger players with the potential to be the kind of players we want or draft picks that we can select those kinds of players with.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

exactly, basically the same thread. I think people like to see their own writing too much on here lmao.

How about discuses Sharpe's 3rd year and what improvements he needs to make, and that it being his 3rd year he should take a big leap..What Scoot needs to improve on and what is he doing during the summer to get better.

But nope, people trying try to play GM in here and quite frankly most are horrible at playing pretend GM on here lol.

Maybe you can go post in that thread if you prefer and leave us alone here? Thank you

I prefer new threads so the old ones can die and continue to get replaced. I don't want dozens of old pages of posts to look through.

 

[sheed30]

Maybe you can go post in that thread if you prefer and leave us alone here? Thank you

I prefer new threads so the old ones can die and continue to get replaced. I don't want dozens of old pages of posts to look through.

We found someone that likes the sight of his own writing. You guys are just running around in circles here.

old ones and new ones are discussing the same thing at the end of the day lol but carry on.

 

[MickZagger]

Delano Banton has "talent"; Walker has talent; Reath has talent. Their talent is just limited, both currently and upside

there's not a single player on the roster people can look at and say "he's definitely going to be a star". I don't think there is anybody on the roster people can even say "yeah, he's certainly going to be an all-star"

if Cronin has been in the 'talent acquisition' phase, he needs to spend more seasons doing so because the best grade you can give him, if you're being very generous, is an incomplete

trotting out a lineup of Scoot-Ant-Avdija-Grant-Ayton and shooting for a 9th-10th seed is the opposite of talent acquisition

Yeah I’ve been saying it for awhile. Shit or get off the pot. Make up your mind and do a full rebuild or don’t do one at all.

There’s GM’s that are doing full rebuilds right now and there’s a real possibility they could sniff the playoffs before we do and our team salary should not be where it is right now for a bottom rung pathetic team.

 

[wizenheimer]

Being in that talent acquisition lane and trading vets on the roster for less than their value are not one and the same.

.

of course....but that is completely subjective. And around here I'm thinking too many people are overrating the value of the vets. Grant is not worth two first's IMO, especially when at least one of the first's would be unprotected. Neither is Simons or Ayton. Thybulle is neutral value at best. Timelord has negative value

people were saying that Brogdon should fetch a 1st. But it was Brogdon + a 14th pick + a very possible lottery pick + two 2nds to get Avdija. Portland could end up paying a lot more for Avdija then they did for RoCo and we know that was a bad trade for Portland

it's hard to be in talent acquiring mode when you paying 114M for those 5 vets, end up playing them, and possibly winning 8-10 extra games next season that moves Portland from 3rd or 4th in the lottery to 12th or 13th

 

[wizenheimer]

Thought the new CBA made it harder to combine contracts and needed to be more 1 for 1

only if you're over the 2nd apron

 

[HoopsFanAZ]

Fuck tanking. A high draft pick should be a consolation prize, not the goal.

Should be.
I won’t disagree on that.

None of the 25 and older Trail Blazers are elite. Maximizing lottery chances has better odds at getting an elite player than trading for one … and definitely better than signing someone else’s elite free agent. The rest of Grant’s prime should be useful for a playoff team. Ant needs better defenders behind him. IMHO, the Blazers need players who are a better fit … ASAP.

Getting guys like Deni Avdija is a serious win. The Wizards got their goal done. Cronin got his done.

Play the youth now — practically all but Clingan have a year in the league. Growth is the goal — again. Losing will follow because that’s what happens with excessive youth. If maximizing winning through keeping the current 25+ vets is the goal, then expect to have that goal for awhile. One and done at best.

[I do believe in Scoot and Sharpe as dudes. Possible all stars. Just not yet.]

 

[wizenheimer]

[rant mode on]

since drafting Dame, Portland has always had talent. But other than Dame (and Aldridge), it has been limited talent. Role-player talent; flawed talent

and because of that, the Blazers have forced 3rd/4th options into awkward roles as 1st of 2nd options. Roles way above their talent level. It is treadmill talent; purgatory talent. Going nowhere talent. And they keep holding onto that 3rd/4th tier talent like it's top-tier talent and turning around and asking for that inflated value in trades. They keep straddling fences and never pick a lane

Portland doesn't need wins over the next 2-3 seasons. What they absolutely need are more high draft picks. But they sure seem poised to trot out a lineup of Scoot-Ant-Avdija-Grant-Ayton while trying to shoot for a 9th-10th seed....and a lousy draft pick. I suppose that would be choosing a lane and the signpost says Stupid Lane and it runs directly into a dead end

[/rant mode off]

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Yeah I’ve been saying it for awhile. Shit or get off the pot. Make up your mind and do a full rebuild or don’t do one at all.

There’s GM’s that are doing full rebuilds right now and there’s a real possibility they could sniff the playoffs before we do and our team salary should not be where it is right now for a bottom rung pathetic team.

Yeah thats the problem with this half ass rebuild and dual timelines, in the long run it gives us MANY MORE SEASONS OF LOSING.

Look at the Thunder, their rebuild was a total of 2 bad losing seasons. We've already had 3 and we're nowhere close to exiting this thing like they quickly did. They now have tons of ways to contend, they had cap space just used to sign their final starter in free agency and they have a boatload of picks to extend their contention.

Want an example without SGA? Ok - how about Houston, they have a roster stacked with way more talent, more youth with upside, plus they have way more future picks. They had 3 brutal years of losing, with 44 wins the season prior and .500 last season. We're nowhere close to their talent and depth of assets they assembled by going all in with a full rebuild.

Half ass dual timelines and impatient rebuilds is what the historically inept teams with poor ownership do; see the Bulls/Hornets/Kings/Pistons/Wizards/etc. Now we belong with that group of franchises, and not the winners who dipped allin to a rebuild for a quick few seasons to exit with a likely contender.

 

[BIG Q]

[rant mode on]

since drafting Dame, Portland has always had talent. But other than Dame (and Aldridge), it has been limited talent. Role-player talent; flawed talent

and because of that, the Blazers have forced 3rd/4th options into awkward roles as 1st of 2nd options. Roles way above their talent level. It is treadmill talent; purgatory talent. Going nowhere talent. And they keep holding onto that 3rd/4th tier talent like it's top-tier talent and turning around and asking for that inflated value in trades. They keep straddling fences and never pick a lane

Portland doesn't need wins over the next 2-3 seasons. What they absolutely need are more high draft picks. But they sure seem poised to trot out a lineup of Scoot-Ant-Avdija-Grant-Ayton while trying to shoot for a 9th-10th seed....and a lousy draft pick. I suppose that would be choosing a lane and the signpost says Stupid Lane and it runs directly into a dead end

[/rant mode off]

Pretty sure that the majority here, that want to to keep Ant (I'm certainly not one), want him to start at PG over Scoot running with Sharpe and the front court you mention. They are so conditioned to watching hero ball that they continue to clamor for it over utilizing the true PG the team just drafted.

 

[sheed30]

Yeah thats the problem with this half ass rebuild and dual timelines, in the long run it gives us MANY MORE SEASONS OF LOSING.

Look at the Thunder, their rebuild was a total of 2 bad losing seasons. We've already had 3 and we're nowhere close to exiting this thing like they quickly did. They now have tons of ways to contend, they had cap space just used to sign their final starter in free agency and they have a boatload of picks to extend their contention.

Want an example without SGA? Ok - how about Houston, they have a roster stacked with way more talent, more youth with upside, plus they have way more future picks. They had 3 brutal years of losing, with 44 wins the season prior and .500 last season. We're nowhere close to their talent and depth of assets they assembled by going all in with a full rebuild.

Half ass dual timelines and impatient rebuilds is what the historically inept teams with poor ownership do; see the Bulls/Hornets/Kings/Pistons/Wizards/etc. Now we belong with that group of franchises, and not the winners who dipped allin to a rebuild for a quick few seasons to exit with a likely contender.

You used the Rockets which is the worse and an a funniest example you could have used. The Rockets are similar to us currently in more ways than you realize right now.

How to break is down into simple terms

1. The Rockets got better within, namely Alperen Şengün, who had a breakout year. Guess what year he just completed, his 3rd. Which is why I mentioned here in this thread it’s a massive year for Sharpe to show us those big improvements in his 3rd coming up. A notable second is Jabari Smith who improved in his second year, which we hope Scoot will improve in his second year.

2. They went and wasted money on two vets, overpaid for 30 year old Van Fleet, 43 mil a year which is almost double what Ant will make, and also Brooks who is 28. Yet we should just dump all our vets right?

3. They got a good coach in the offseason, who was in the NBA finals before as a coach and who is clearly better than Billups.

4. Their previous best player the year before, Jalen Green actually regressed, and is close to how people view Ant here. But I didn’t see you say anything negative about him. So now, by your logic and others, we should just tank and tank until we hit a superstar right?

Then, at the same time praising Rockets and how they are a lot better than us and have way more upside. Makes no sense at all.

Let me ask you, Van Fleet and Brooks going to bring a championship to Houston? If you answer is no, and it should be, then by your logic the Rocket did crap and should have continued to tank and tank until they hit a star in the draft right like you want the Blazers to do right?

Instead you used to the Rockets as an example while failing to realize how silly it looks when you suggest what the Blazers should do.

if the Blazers had the same record as what Rockets just finished, people in here would be fuming saying we are wasting time, we should just tank, Van Fleet and Brooks won’t get us a chip, Fire Cronin and yada yada.

Please make some sense, thanks.

 

[BIG Q]

You used the Rockets which is the worse and an a funniest example you could have used. The Rockets are similar to us currently in more ways than you realize right now.

How to break is down into simple terms

1. The Rockets got better within, namely Alperen Şengün, who had a breakout year. Guess what year he just completed, his 3rd. Which is why I mentioned here in this thread it’s a massive year for Sharpe to show us those big improvements in his 3rd coming up. A notable second is Jabari Smith who improved in his second year, which we hope Scoot will improve in his second year.

2. They went and wasted money on two vets, overpaid for 30 year old Van Fleet, 43 mil a year which is almost double what Ant will make, and also Brooks who is 28. Yet we should just dump all our vets right?

3. They got a good coach in the offseason, who was in the NBA finals before as a coach and who is clearly better than Billups.

4. Their previous best player the year before, Jalen Green actually regressed, and is close to how people view Ant here. But I didn’t see you say anything negative about him. So now, by your logic and others, we should just tank and tank until we hit a superstar right?

Then, at the same time praising Rockets and how they are a lot better than us and have way more upside. Makes no sense at all.

Let me ask you, Van Fleet and Brooks going to bring a championship to Houston? If you answer is no, and it should be, then by your logic the Rocket did crap and should have continued to tank and tank until they hit a star in the draft right like you want the Blazers to do right?

Instead you used to the Rockets as an example while failing to realize how silly it looks when you suggest what the Blazers should do.

if the Blazers had the same record as what Rockets just finished, people in here would be fuming saying we are wasting time, we should just tank, Van Fleet and Brooks won’t get us a chip, Fire Cronin and yada yada.

Please make some sense, thanks.

Just a quick interjection in the conversation you two are having, I think what really separates Houston from Portland is that they can attract free agents. They can also entice players to ask for SNT's, which we all know never happens to/in Portland. Don't know who's position this helps, but is a huge factor in acquiring talent.

 

[BigGameDamian]

So tanking is the only way to build a contending team?

 

[andalusian]

of course....but that is completely subjective. And around here I'm thinking too many people are overrating the value of the vets. Grant is not worth two first's IMO, especially when at least one of the first's would be unprotected. Neither is Simons or Ayton. Thybulle is neutral value at best. Timelord has negative value

Who cares what people are thinking. The only thing that matters is what Joe thinks and he clearly seems to think he can get more than just the 1 pick + garbage rumored to be offered by LAL.

My only point was that the idea that Joe has not picked a lane because he is not willing to drop his pants and bend over for the mighty mighty Lakers - is silly.

 

[Phatguysrule]

So tanking is the only way to build a contending team?

Tanking is losing on purpose, isn't it? I don't think anybody wants the Coach or players trying to lose games.

I think most just want to replace the players we know aren't championship caliber building blocks with players who have potential to be championship caliber building blocks.

This can be done through Free Agency, Trades, or the draft.

Free Agency is out. Unless we have already built a better basketball situation than anywhere else in the league.

Unfortunately there aren't many trades in which players who have proven to be championship level building blocks are traded for players who have proven they are not.

So you have to trade the guys we think aren't for young guys who aren't proven.

Yes. Unfortunately that's the only way.

 

[riverman]

I actually have more faith in finding the Delano Banton's and Deni's out there with NBA experience and youth more than the crap shoot of the draft although you can hit home runs both ways. We haven't had the kind of youth and length on this team we have now in a long, long time.

 

[sheed30]

Just a quick interjection in the conversation you two are having, I think what really separates Houston from Portland is that they can attract free agents. They can also entice players to ask for SNT's, which we all know never happens to/in Portland. Don't know who's position this helps, but is a huge factor in acquiring talent.

I mean, if you talking about the past, maybe so but it could also be who was on that Houston team at the time. Drexler wanted a ring so asked to go to Houston with Hakeem. Barkley wanted the same....fast forward to not to long ago, Yao Ming was on the team when Tmac got traded there....

Harden was just traded there by OKC, nothing to do with Harden asking to go there from what Ive seen and read. As far as free agent signings, only Dwight Howard is the only name that stands out. That's one person, the rest of the big signings they did were nothing special. I went to check, here is the list of best signings the Rockets have ever done. This was from last year.

• Kevin Willis.
• P.J. Tucker. ...
• Trevor Ariza, the second time. ...
• Bobby Sura. ...
• Eddie Johnson. ...
• Luc Mbah a Moute. ...
• Jimmy Jackson. ...
• Mo Taylor
• Eric Gordon
• Dwight Howard.

and more recently, Van Fleet and Brooks.

No one really wanted Brooks btw, he was not getting lots of offers as a free agent last off season and how his tenure with the Grizz ended.

Van Fleet was paid and paid so well he couldn't turn it down. Van Fleet is going to be the 20th most paid person in the league next season, $42,846,615 next season, right under.....drum roll...Luka Doncic: $43,031,940 and Anthony Davis $43,219,440

He would have been dumb to turn that down.

To think Ant makes 25k per year, Van Fleet makes about 75% more per year and some think Ant is overpaid lol...

 

[sheed30]

Who cares what people are thinking. The only thing that matters is what Joe thinks and he clearly seems to think he can get more than just the 1 pick + garbage rumored to be offered by LAL.

My only point was that the idea that Joe has not picked a lane because he is not willing to drop his pants and bend over for the mighty mighty Lakers - is silly.

lmao, this was funny and basically true

 

[blazerfan11]

Today's games:

 

[Whyachi]

the sneaky stealth tank ran off the rails last season. Cronin uses inexperienced players as primary reserves. It was exposed almost immediately. Legit injuries, not fake injuries, became a frequent occurrence.

the Cronin midseason stealth tank was not available. Joe was low on good Blazers he could trade for a future pick.

Perhaps this season, the stealth tank phone will ring? The Blazers can then bench everyone, because there's no point in trying to win after Blazer X is gone.

Let's put Hagans, Minaya, & Rupert in the starting lineup. But remember... bench Rupert immediately if he starts draining shots in a close game.

 

[wizenheimer]

Who cares what people are thinking. The only thing that matters is what Joe thinks and he clearly seems to think he can get more than just the 1 pick + garbage rumored to be offered by LAL.

My only point was that the idea that Joe has not picked a lane because he is not willing to drop his pants and bend over for the mighty mighty Lakers - is silly.

it's easy to use the Lakers as the butt of a joke, but it's deflection, especially since we don't know what was offered or what was rejected, but we have heard plenty of rumors about Cronin wanting two first's for Grant, which would require the Lakers to make one or both unprotected.

drafting Scoot.....trading Dame and Nurkic...for Ayton & Timelord, after coveting Ayton for 2 years....resigning Grant for 5 years at 33M/year....matching a ridiculous offer sheet to Thybulle....trading two firsts and two 2nds for Avdija....climbing right up close to the tax line for a 21 win team....it's pretty hard to see a single lane in all that. Looks like two or three

 

[BIG Q]

the sneaky stealth tank ran off the rails last season. Cronin uses inexperienced players as primary reserves. It was exposed almost immediately. Legit injuries, not fake injuries, became a frequent occurrence.

the Cronin midseason stealth tank was not available. Joe was low on good Blazers he could trade for a future pick.

Perhaps this season, the stealth tank phone will ring? The Blazers can then bench everyone, because there's no point in trying to win after Blazer X is gone.

Let's put Hagans, Minaya, & Rupert in the starting lineup. But remember... bench Rupert immediately if he starts draining shots in a close game.

Come on, if Cronin can trade any of Ant, Grant, Thybulle or Williams to contenders that can use the vets, then they are rebuilding. OKC did it, Houston too. Toronto, Chicago and Washington as of now are rebuilding. Move those guys and then let Scoot, Sharpe, Advija, Ayton and Clingan play to win. Would be great to see. Now if Cronin can't move any of the guys listed, and then questionable injuries start popping up, then yes, that is most likely a tank. But injuries happen, ACL's, achilles, broken bones, etc...

 

[cheesehoff]

Glad I could provide a forum for your valuable comments!

Only thing worse than a repetitive thread is a post criticizing those threads. Talk about flogging a really, really dead horse!