Pick a lane, Joe

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What strategy should we have?

  • Trade as many vets as possible this Summer, even for low value, to go full tank

    Votes: 23 48.9%

  • Hold on to our vets and play them to maximize value, but still tank

    Votes: 16 34.0%

  • Actually try to win (probably involving replacing Chauncey)

    Votes: 8 17.0%
  • Total voters
    47
SlyPokerDog said:
Throw the games, throw the games
If you love us, tank it for us
Throw the games, throw the games
I am dying to believe you
I feel alone wanting draft picks
I feel you breaking our hearts
Throw the games, throw the games
If you love us, tank it for us
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That was beautiful!
 
AmirIcon said:
They won't be crummy next season...
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I watched the CP3 & Barnes presser. I'll just say they didn't look estatically thrilled to be Spurs.

Castle looks like a really fun player. Go Spurs Go is an exciting tank, but it's still too heavy for playoff combat.
 
wizenheimer said:
it's easy to use the Lakers as the butt of a joke, but it's deflection, especially since we don't know what was offered or what was rejected, but we have heard plenty of rumors about Cronin wanting two first's for Grant, which would require the Lakers to make one or both unprotected.
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OK, not sure what your argument here is, that JoeCro requires too much from LAL? If you say that we do not know what was or was not offered, so if we believe that he asked for 2 FRPs from LAL, it makes sense to take it that he did not think what they offered with 1 remote FRP was enough which still leaves us in the talent acquisition lane.

wizenheimer said:
drafting Scoot.....trading Dame and Nurkic...for Ayton & Timelord, after coveting Ayton for 2 years....resigning Grant for 5 years at 33M/year....matching a ridiculous offer sheet to Thybulle....trading two firsts and two 2nds for Avdija....climbing right up close to the tax line for a 21 win team....it's pretty hard to see a single lane in all that. Looks like two or three
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Trading Dame was a requirement that did not come from JoeCro, it came after a trade request.

Now, the entire matching MT, giving Ant and Grant their contracts clearly fall in the "not letting talent go for nothing", and the contracts seem to be size appropriate for the NBA of today so can be used in trades in the future, so clearly still fit in the talent acquisition lane.

Finally, the Nurkic for DA trade, clearly an upgrade in talent for the modern NBA, DA can play center in the drop and do switching as required by the modern NBA, Nurkic could not.

Before Dame's trade request Joe mentioned he wants to balance the roster and add athletic ability which he was clearly working on even before the trade request. Once that trade request was made, it was clearly a move to talent acquisition since Dame's trade has really decreased the actualized talent on the roster.

I really do not understand this stance that there are multiple lanes here, once Dame made the trade request JoeCro made multiple moves to retain talent on tradeable contracts, draft for talent emphasizing upside, athletic ability and roster balance. That's the lane.

It's a single lane. You can not acquire talent if you let talent on the roster walk for nothing. The Blazers have to have a minimum salary - and the talent that could "walk away" was extended in league norms. In an NBA where Quickly got $175m contract, Ant is not overpaid. Royce O'neal got basically the same contract per year (an extra year) as MT did for a similar kind of player, again, not overpaid. Grant, a bit overpaid, for sure, but better to keep him and wait for the market to get out of control (See BI's next contract, Siakam getting the max) and all of a sudden, JG's contract as the 3rd option does not look out of place in the NBA - he is making $30m this year, MPJ is making $36m this year... that's a tradeable contract, if not thing year, next year for sure.
 
andalusian said:
OK, not sure what your argument here is, that JoeCro requires too much from LAL? If you say that we do not know what was or was not offered, so if we believe that he asked for 2 FRPs from LAL, it makes sense to take it that he did not think what they offered with 1 remote FRP was enough which still leaves us in the talent acquisition lane.



Trading Dame was a requirement that did not come from JoeCro, it came after a trade request.

Now, the entire matching MT, giving Ant and Grant their contracts clearly fall in the "not letting talent go for nothing", and the contracts seem to be size appropriate for the NBA of today so can be used in trades in the future, so clearly still fit in the talent acquisition lane.

Finally, the Nurkic for DA trade, clearly an upgrade in talent for the modern NBA, DA can play center in the drop and do switching as required by the modern NBA, Nurkic could not.

Before Dame's trade request Joe mentioned he wants to balance the roster and add athletic ability which he was clearly working on even before the trade request. Once that trade request was made, it was clearly a move to talent acquisition since Dame's trade has really decreased the actualized talent on the roster.

I really do not understand this stance that there are multiple lanes here, once Dame made the trade request JoeCro made multiple moves to retain talent on tradeable contracts, draft for talent emphasizing upside, athletic ability and roster balance. That's the lane.

It's a single lane. You can not acquire talent if you let talent on the roster walk for nothing. The Blazers have to have a minimum salary - and the talent that could "walk away" was extended in league norms. In an NBA where Quickly got $175m contract, Ant is not overpaid. Royce O'neal got basically the same contract per year (an extra year) as MT did for a similar kind of player, again, not overpaid. Grant, a bit overpaid, for sure, but better to keep him and wait for the market to get out of control (See BI's next contract, Siakam getting the max) and all of a sudden, JG's contract as the 3rd option does not look out of place in the NBA - he is making $30m this year, MPJ is making $36m this year... that's a tradeable contract, if not thing year, next year for sure.
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you see just one lane....I see more. agree to disagree

my main position is that any lane that has Portland shooting for wins and a play-in spot with Ant-Grant-Ayton is a dumb and pointless lane to take. And my hunch is that is what the Blazers will try, at least until the trade deadline approaches. And by then, it's very likely the Blazers will have completely scuttled their chances at good odds in the lottery for a significantly better draft than this year's, especially in the top-5-7 slots
 
I am certainly concerned that none of Ant, Grant, Thybulle or Williams will be traded before the season starts. Adding Advija to the mix could certainly lead to undesired competitiveness and wins. This is a team needing a star like Flagg or Ace. At minimum, the above vets should never play in the fourth quarter. That is where the young players need to get experience, compete some, but ultimately lose games. That is the best compromise I can rap my brain around if trades are not made.
 
So we’re all hoping for a 1-81 season so we can have a 14% chance at Cooper Flagg?
 
BIG Q said:
I am certainly concerned that none of Ant, Grant, Thybulle or Williams will be traded before the season starts. Adding Advija to the mix could certainly lead to undesired competitiveness and wins. This is a team needing a star like Flagg or Ace. At minimum, the above vets should never play in the fourth quarter. That is where the young players need to get experience, compete some, but ultimately lose games. That is the best compromise I can rap my brain around if trades are not made.
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We can't just bring those vets back and not play them in the 4th quarter - that could cause major problems in the locker room as well as development of our youth (Scoot/Sharpe/etc)

Two of these vets need to be traded away so we can just play the remaining vets/youth to win as hard as possible and still end up with a great pick.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
We can't just bring those vets back and not play them in the 4th quarter - that could cause major problems in the locker room as well as development of our youth (Scoot/Sharpe/etc)

Two of these vets need to be traded away so we can just play the remaining vets/youth to win as hard as possible and still end up with a great pick.
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You are surely right. Just a ridiculous situation.
 
I’d go watch us lose all 82 games on purpose if that’s what it took to land Flagg. Something tells me the NBA won’t allow him to land here though.
 
Someone needs to talk to Ant about Jamal Crawford. Ant would be perfect instant scoring as the 6th man. If he could embrace that role it would be one less need for the team to address.
 
LayneStaley said:
Someone needs to talk to Ant about Jamal Crawford. Ant would be perfect instant scoring as the 6th man. If he could embrace that role it would be one less need for the team to address.
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I think that role will get filled by default. We aren't going to hit all stars on all of our draft picks. But we want as many opportunities as possible to hit in the shortest amount of time.

Need to try and get a good chance at a good pick out of Ant.
 
BIG Q said:
Adding Advija to the mix could certainly lead to undesired competitiveness and wins.
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there wasn't enough competitiveness at all last season. The repercussions of losing to Portland was devastating.

List of teams that lost vs. Blazers, then fired their Coach:

Suns
Cavs
Bucks
Pistons
Nets

there may be more management changes I'm unaware of. Just a drop in the bucket when dropping games to Portland.
 
wizenheimer said:
it's easy to use the Lakers as the butt of a joke, but it's deflection, especially since we don't know what was offered or what was rejected, but we have heard plenty of rumors about Cronin wanting two first's for Grant, which would require the Lakers to make one or both unprotected.

drafting Scoot.....trading Dame and Nurkic...for Ayton & Timelord, after coveting Ayton for 2 years....resigning Grant for 5 years at 33M/year....matching a ridiculous offer sheet to Thybulle....trading two firsts and two 2nds for Avdija....climbing right up close to the tax line for a 21 win team....it's pretty hard to see a single lane in all that. Looks like two or three
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Joe had to take on someone's salary in the Dame trade. So he took on Brogdon, who is now gone, and Ayton, who is over-paid by about 10 mil but only has 2 years left. Ayton is also a decent trade chip, and there is still the possiblity he becomes a long term piece.

Deni was acquired for the draft capital we got in the Dame trade. (and we still have some left over). But the Blazers wanted a young-upcoming forward for Dame, and they got him. So mission accomplished.

We will eventually get a 1st rounder for Grant. I think Joe matched so that he could get back what he paid to acquire Grant (plus more perhaps).

Matching Thybulle was stupid. But at least it wasn't Allen Crabbe level stupid.
 
I have been watching a lot of Deandre Ayton highlights as of late. I didn't think he could play the 4 effectively but the more I watch him run the floor the more he reminds me of LMA. (Very good mid-rage shot)

If Robert Williams can stay healthy maybe we should experiment with him and Clingan at the center and start Ayton at the 4. (assuming we move Grant)

What is the worst that could happen......we end up tanking?
 
Pinwheel1 said:
I have been watching a lot of Deandre Ayton highlights as of late. I didn't think he could play the 4 effectively but the more I watch him run the floor the more he reminds me of LMA. (Very good mid-rage shot)

If Robert Williams can stay healthy maybe we should experiment with him and Clingan at the center and start Ayton at the 4. (assuming we move Grant)

What is the worst that could happen......we end up tanking?
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Totally. It’s all about the matchups.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
I have been watching a lot of Deandre Ayton highlights as of late. I didn't think he could play the 4 effectively but the more I watch him run the floor the more he reminds me of LMA. (Very good mid-rage shot)

If Robert Williams can stay healthy maybe we should experiment with him and Clingan at the center and start Ayton at the 4. (assuming we move Grant)

What is the worst that could happen......we end up tanking?
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Ayton would be fine at the 4 offensively. He'd get eaten alive at the 4 defensively. This is not something we should even consider unless another team has two centers on the court.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Ayton would be fine at the 4 offensively. He'd get eaten alive at the 4 defensively. This is not something we should even consider unless another team has two centers on the court.
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Looking at the top 8 teams in the West from last year and their projected starting C-PF this year I can see 2 problems, but those two are problems for everyone (KD and Zion) Half the teams don't have 4s who are one of their main scorers. Sure there is the "switching" issue but in a half-court scenario, Ayton is not that slow.

OKC -Hartenstein/Chet
Minnesota-Gobert/Towns
Denver- Jokic/Gordon
Clippers- Zubac/?
Dallas- Gafford/PJ
Phoenix-Nurk/KD
Lakers-AD/Vanderbilt
New Orleans- Missi/Zion
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Looking at the top 8 teams in the West from last year and their projected starting C-PF this year I can see 2 problems, but those two are problems for everyone (KD and Zion) Half the teams don't have 4s who are one of their main scorers. Sure there is the "switching" issue but in a half-court scenario, Ayton is not that slow.

OKC -Hartenstein/Chet
Minnesota-Gobert/Towns
Denver- Jokic/Gordon
Clippers- Zubac/?
Dallas- Gafford/PJ
Phoenix-Nurk/KD
Lakers-AD/Vanderbilt
New Orleans- Missi/Zion
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Chet would kill Ayton in the half court. No contest.
Ayton also can't guard Gordon. Not even close. He can't guard Vanderbilt either. And he can't guard whoever the Clips run at the 4.

This will not work. It will look bad and it will make our whole team look terrible on defense. It's not just that Ayton can't stop those guys from scoring... he can't rotate with them. So there will always be a player open. They'll kill us even without their 4 scoring on Ayton.

This defensive unit will just convince everyone on the team that it doesn't matter how hard they work on defense. The other team will just score anyway.

This is not saying Ayton is slow. He's a mobile 5. He is not a mobile 4. He's a very SLOW 4. This is not fair to do to Ayton or anybody else on the team.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Chet would kill Ayton in the half court. No contest.
Ayton also can't guard Gordon. Not even close. He can't guard Vanderbilt either. And he can't guard whoever the Clips run at the 4.

This will not work. It will look bad and it will make our whole team look terrible on defense. It's not just that Ayton can't stop those guys from scoring... he can't rotate with them. So there will always be a player open. They'll kill us even without their 4 scoring on Ayton.

This defensive unit will just convince everyone on the team that it doesn't matter how hard they work on defense. The other team will just score anyway.

This is not saying Ayton is slow. He's a mobile 5. He is not a mobile 4. He's a very SLOW 4. This is not fair to do to Ayton or anybody else on the team.
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sorry if I missed this, but where were people insisting that ayton would be the full time 4 vs. a tactically used 4? coaches love having weirdo switch-up-the-energy lineups they can throw at other teams.
 
Samuel said:
sorry if I missed this, but where were people insisting that ayton would be the full time 4 vs. a tactically used 4? coaches love having weirdo switch-up-the-energy lineups they can throw at other teams.
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I assume that was the proposal. Judging by the list of power 4/5s that we'd be matching up against.

Plus I said in my original post we could try it if the other team is playing multiple centers at the same time.

I think we should avoid it If possible.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Chet would kill Ayton in the half court. No contest.
Ayton also can't guard Gordon. Not even close. He can't guard Vanderbilt either. And he can't guard whoever the Clips run at the 4.

This will not work. It will look bad and it will make our whole team look terrible on defense. It's not just that Ayton can't stop those guys from scoring... he can't rotate with them. So there will always be a player open. They'll kill us even without their 4 scoring on Ayton.

This defensive unit will just convince everyone on the team that it doesn't matter how hard they work on defense. The other team will just score anyway.

This is not saying Ayton is slow. He's a mobile 5. He is not a mobile 4. He's a very SLOW 4. This is not fair to do to Ayton or anybody else on the team.
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If they put a smaller player out there then you are right, it won't work...... on defense. But the ones I listed I don't see as a problem. Most starting 4s don't have great handles. And the ones that do, no one is stopping anyway.

Chet does. He has skills, but it's not like he is blowing by people. I think a longer Ayton can guard him just as well as a shorter quicker PF. He won't shut him down, but who will?

Suggesting he can't guard Vanderbilt is hilarious. The dude takes about 5 shots a game...for a reason. If they want him to change their game plan where he takes more against us.....great. No one needs to rotate over to help. The guy has no handles. I think Ayton's mobility is similar to Towns.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
If they put a smaller player out there then you are right, it won't work...... on defense. But the ones I listed I don't see as a problem. Most starting 4s don't have great handles. And the ones that do, no one is stopping anyway.

Chet does. He has skills, but it's not like he is blowing by people. I think a longer Ayton can guard him just as well as a shorter quicker PF. He won't shut him down, but who will?

Suggesting he can't guard Vanderbilt is hilarious. The dude takes about 5 shots a game...for a reason. If they want him to change their game plan where he takes more against us.....great. No one needs to rotate over to help. The guy has no handles. I think Ayton's mobility is similar to Towns.
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Ayton played the 4 a lot in college.
 
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