Players with three 60+ points in a season

[Hoopguru]

Yes, they changed the rules to open up the game, but then they later changed further rules to give defenses more options. The result has actually given us (IMO) the best era in basketball, where offenses can play free-flowing basketball unimpeded by grabbing and holding (which was never a particularly skilled style of defense) but defenses have been given the ability to play new styles of defense to combat that.

Have you noticed how high scoring the games are and the amount of fouls.

 

[Natebishop3]

We were never up by 20 in that game. In fact, we trailed 33-30 after the first quarter.

False. We went up big to start the game and then Jordan went off.

 

[Orion Bailey]

False. We went up big to start the game and then Jordan went off.

This Game?


"Portland got a big boost early in Game 6 from Jerome Kersey, whom the Bulls liked to play off because he wasn’t a good shooter. Both Jordan and Scottie Pippen liked to play the passing lanes for steals to ignite the break. But Kersey burned Pippen early as Portland took a 25-19 first quarter lead. Phil Jackson had created controversy early in the series saying the Trail Blazers would self destruct, and their reputation was of an athletic but mistake prone team. They did take a lot of bad shots, but really because they had few great shooters. They were a terrific transition and open court team, but their half court play was weak and I always thought the failure to employ Kevin Duckworth more was fatal.


Drexler began to go at Jordan in the second quarter with some success and a dunk and Portland especially began crashing the boards and taking away the inside from the Bulls. The Trail Blazers went on a 10-0 run to take a 43-28 lead and it began to look more and more like another seventh game after the Bulls were pushed to the edge by the Knicks in the conference semifinals. The Bulls continued to hang in, though, trailing 50-44 at halftime. But Portland was clearly the aggressor.


The Bulls opened the second half badly with turnovers and fell behind by 17. B.J. Armstrong made a pair of baskets to keep the game from getting away, but the Trail Blazers still led 79-64 entering the fourth quarter and 42-14 on inside points.


But it all would change in an instant.


Jackson took a flier on Hansen, playing for the injured Craig Hodges, and Hansen came through with a quick three with a group that included King, Armstrong and Scott Williams with Pippen. King, who had struggled and was unable to beat out Horace Grant after being the sixth pick in the 1989 draft, had one of his best sequences with a free throw on a flagrant foul by Kersey and then a drive for a score. Pippen went into the post for a score after another Armstrong jumper three minutes into the quarter and the Bulls were within 81-76. Portland, as Jackson predicted, was imploding with turnovers and bad fouls.


King then hit a banker, making it scores on seven straight possessions for the Bulls to get within three points midway through the quarter when Jackson sent Jordan back into the game. Jordan scored right away with a floater as Portland began to become even more distracted, claiming bad foul calls. Pippen hit an unlikely three at the 24-second buzzer, and amazingly the Bulls were tied at 85. Shortly thereafter, the Bulls took the lead, their first since it was 4-2.


John Paxson stripped even the usually reliable Terry Porter and Jordan would finish it up with a driving score and post up to begin the wild celebration, the first home celebration after a title victory for a Chicago team in decades. Oh, what a night it would be in anticipation now of three."

https://www.nba.com/bulls/news/bullsclassics_smith_111206.html

 

[Natebishop3]

This Game?


"Portland got a big boost early in Game 6 from Jerome Kersey, whom the Bulls liked to play off because he wasn’t a good shooter. Both Jordan and Scottie Pippen liked to play the passing lanes for steals to ignite the break. But Kersey burned Pippen early as Portland took a 25-19 first quarter lead. Phil Jackson had created controversy early in the series saying the Trail Blazers would self destruct, and their reputation was of an athletic but mistake prone team. They did take a lot of bad shots, but really because they had few great shooters. They were a terrific transition and open court team, but their half court play was weak and I always thought the failure to employ Kevin Duckworth more was fatal.


Drexler began to go at Jordan in the second quarter with some success and a dunk and Portland especially began crashing the boards and taking away the inside from the Bulls. The Trail Blazers went on a 10-0 run to take a 43-28 lead and it began to look more and more like another seventh game after the Bulls were pushed to the edge by the Knicks in the conference semifinals. The Bulls continued to hang in, though, trailing 50-44 at halftime. But Portland was clearly the aggressor.


The Bulls opened the second half badly with turnovers and fell behind by 17. B.J. Armstrong made a pair of baskets to keep the game from getting away, but the Trail Blazers still led 79-64 entering the fourth quarter and 42-14 on inside points.


But it all would change in an instant.


Jackson took a flier on Hansen, playing for the injured Craig Hodges, and Hansen came through with a quick three with a group that included King, Armstrong and Scott Williams with Pippen. King, who had struggled and was unable to beat out Horace Grant after being the sixth pick in the 1989 draft, had one of his best sequences with a free throw on a flagrant foul by Kersey and then a drive for a score. Pippen went into the post for a score after another Armstrong jumper three minutes into the quarter and the Bulls were within 81-76. Portland, as Jackson predicted, was imploding with turnovers and bad fouls.


King then hit a banker, making it scores on seven straight possessions for the Bulls to get within three points midway through the quarter when Jackson sent Jordan back into the game. Jordan scored right away with a floater as Portland began to become even more distracted, claiming bad foul calls. Pippen hit an unlikely three at the 24-second buzzer, and amazingly the Bulls were tied at 85. Shortly thereafter, the Bulls took the lead, their first since it was 4-2.


John Paxson stripped even the usually reliable Terry Porter and Jordan would finish it up with a driving score and post up to begin the wild celebration, the first home celebration after a title victory for a Chicago team in decades. Oh, what a night it would be in anticipation now of three."

https://www.nba.com/bulls/news/bullsclassics_smith_111206.html

No, it was game one. The shoulder shrug game.

 

[riverman]

Dame is alot like Chauncey Billups to me....great leader, unselfish and willing to make the right play...great loyal high character guy...lucky to have him

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm working my way through it. So far we're up 15-7.

 

[Orion Bailey]

No, it was game one. The shoulder shrug game.

Shoulder Shrug from Jordan? That wasn't Game one I don't believe.

I think you guys are mixing games up.

 

[Natebishop3]

Shoulder Shrug from Jordan? That wasn't Game one I don't believe.

I think you guys are mixing games up.

 

[Orion Bailey]

View attachment 32932

Yeah, but we weren't up big in this game. I think the game you were thinking of was the one I posted the article about?

 

[Natebishop3]

Yeah, but we weren't up big in this game. I think the game you were thinking of was the one I posted the article about?

I think by "big" I was thinking "in control." I hadn't watched the game in a while, but man we were looking so good to start the first quarter. And then Jordan just started going off. He wasn't really a three point shooter and the guy dropped 6/10 from deep and I think it was all in the first half.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I think by "big" I was thinking "in control." I hadn't watched the game in a while, but man we were looking so good to start the first quarter. And then Jordan just started going off. He wasn't really a three point shooter and the guy dropped 6/10 from deep and I think it was all in the first half.

Yeah I ran it to half time and he had hit 5 and the commentators were going nuts. Just an average night for 3pt shooters nowadays, lol.

reminded me how much the game has changed.

 

[blazerfan11]

I used to watch those Chicago Bulls teams and think "they're good, but they are not SIX Championships good.."
They had a guy. And, nobody could stop him. He could do whatever he wanted, offensively, or defensively.
And they won because of Him. And, only because of Him.
I am not comparing this TrailBlazer team to those Bulls teams, but Damian Lillard, is STARTING to remind me of another guy, who
could do whatever it took, to refuse to lose a game.
What a career he has already had.

If we only had a Hall of Fame sidekick for Dame.

 

[Minstrel]

Have you noticed how high scoring the games are and the amount of fouls.

Sure. Scoring doesn't tell you the level of the defense--rules and environment (the way the game is being played) have a huge effect on scoring. If the NBA made a rule that every missed shot was worth half a point, scoring would skyrocket, but that wouldn't make the defense "worse." Teams are pushing the pace much more than in the past, teams have learned lessons in efficiency that three-pointers and lay-ups/dunks are much better for offense while mid-range jumpers aren't great. Those things aren't indictments of defense, they're examples of the evolution of the game and superior knowledge over time. If you actually go back and watch games from the 1980s (rather than just work from memory of "tougher defense"), you'll see that the defenses were much more basic and often quite porous. The players were also not as athletic as today, on average. Offenses from today would absolutely blitz those old defenses, much more than they blitz defenses today, IMO.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

It's no slight on Dame....for a time, Drexler was the 2nd best player in the league next to Jordan. And I agree about Clyde's less than stellar work ethic. Also hope Dame has more to show us and that he gets at least to the Finals.

As for Dame doing it by himself, I've always found that a bit off given who some of the players they each played with.

CJ vs Porter - A case can be made for either so it's not like either one was terrible. Porter was more clutch, CJ probably the better scorer. Neither was a very good defensive player.

Nurkic vs Duckworth - please, Nurk all day.

Aldridge vs Williams - Buck on D by far, Aldridge the better offensive player.

Melo vs Kersey - Kersey because he was in his prime and a created havoc. But did anyone trust Kersey's jumper nearly as much as an older Melo? One was a great role player, one is a past his prime HoF'er.

What Dame is doing is incredible and no one is trying to take anything away from that, but despite Drexler's flaws, there were things he did that were incredible as well and it's not like he was surrounded by anywhere near the talent Jordan had at the time. He wasn't the natural scorer Dame is but was much more of a force in other things, sometimes just due to his size and freak athletic ability. It sucks Clyde grew up learning to shoot on a hoop with an 11' ceiling or he would have had a much better shot.

So your giving Dame credit for teammates like Nurkic who hasn't been healthy for playoffs, Aldridge who was there with different teammates, Melo who hasnt played a full season, and omitting Cliff, Ainge who were awesome. Porter was the player everyone wanted taking the final shot at the end of games.

Drexler isn't regarded as the 2nd best player of that Era. He wasnt part of the 10 players chosen for the dream team. He was the 11th selection along with Christian Laetner.

Those Blazers teams were awesome because they were a collection of 7 very good players like the 2005 pistons. They weren't great because Drexler carried them himself.

Yes Drexler was the best player on those teams and yes the best Blazer prior to Dame. That's as much due to lack of perennial allstars in Blazer history as it is Drexler being a consistent MVP player, he wasn't. Nobody outside Blazers or Rockets fans would rank Drexler in the top 20 of NBA players. I'm not sure he would make many top50 lists today.

 

[TBpup]

I've given so many props to Dame and yet some still take it almost like a personal slight. Enjoy.

 

[Hoopguru]

I go along with Kobe's point of view. Guys like Harden wouldn't live at the free throw line like he does.
Magic would be there as much or more than Harden. MJ would average low 40's.

Sure. Scoring doesn't tell you the level of the defense--rules and environment (the way the game is being played) have a huge effect on scoring. If the NBA made a rule that every missed shot was worth half a point, scoring would skyrocket, but that wouldn't make the defense "worse." Teams are pushing the pace much more than in the past, teams have learned lessons in efficiency that three-pointers and lay-ups/dunks are much better for offense while mid-range jumpers aren't great. Those things aren't indictments of defense, they're examples of the evolution of the game and superior knowledge over time. If you actually go back and watch games from the 1980s (rather than just work from memory of "tougher defense"), you'll see that the defenses were much more basic and often quite porous. The players were also not as athletic as today, on average. Offenses from today would absolutely blitz those old defenses, much more than they blitz defenses today, IMO.

The other day I read where Kobe Bryant stated that the NBA has changed. I was an ’80s baby, and watching the NBA in the mid to late ’80s was exciting. A new breed of basketball was born with the emergence of superstars like Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan and Isaiah Thomas. It was fun to watch but only because the NBA teams hadn’t learned how to defend such dynamic play makers who could take over a game in many different ways.

In the late ’80s, NBA play would evolve, and honestly, to me, the late ’80s and mid ’90s basketball was the best basketball for my liking. Everyone may not agree, but it was fun to watch the defenses adapt to try and stop play makers from making plays. Detroit instituted the Jordan rules that would force the NBA’s hand on how games would be called.

The hand check was the equalizer to the new super athletes. The shooters very rarely got a chance to square up perfectly and shoot because someone was always engaged on the shooter. When you see highlights of guys like Larry Bird, Dominique Wilkins and even Michael Jordan, you see guys shooting with their bodies moving at an angle to create space. Today’s jump shooters don’t have to endure that. Watch Dirk Nowitzki shoot. His body is almost always perfectly square unless he is shooting the one-legged fall-away that he shoots. Most cases, you can draw lines on his body because he is perfectly square.

Today’s NBA players don’t have to endure the bumping and physicality that other greats had to deal with. I’m pretty sure Magic Johnson would be a headache at point guard in today’s NBA. He would practically live at the free throw line because there is no way the smaller NBA guards would be able to stop him from backing down without the ability to push.



Today’s NBA is more European-style basketball. You have stretch 4’s who are just tall shooting guards who play more on the perimeter than they do in the paint. The lack of centers has increased the value of the 3 and the 4 positions. Learning the international game has been essential with the growth of basketball and the Olympics. You can see the influence in how teams draft and also the changing of the way big guys play now.

Today teams try to create mismatches on the wing, and very few players can actually create shots in tight space. The fact that you have to give space to the player makes it much easier to create your own shot now. Imagine how good Jordan would be with today’s NBA rules. You already couldn’t touch him; imagine how many more free throws he would shoot the way the game is refereed today.

Television deals and protecting players have become priorities. The more exciting the play, the higher the price you can put on it. I understand why the powers that be wanted to change the game. It makes sense. For those people in their 30s, today’s game is probably better for them. Their recollection of basketball in the ’90s would have been high school based, and they themselves wouldn’t have seen the evolution from ’80s to ’90s basketball. It makes sense because offense sells. You see it in NFL football with rule changes, you’ve seen it in professional soccer and you’ve seen it in the NHL.

My opinions are simply that, but when I see a hard foul and an ejection that comes after it makes me cringe a little. Hard fouls, no layup rules and being a little afraid to drive into the paint without consequences made the game more like real life. Sometimes you get knocked down, but can you get back up? Sometimes you have to be willing to put it all on the line knowing that it’s going to be hard. Today’s NBA is all friends and fun. It’s not the worst product out there by any stretch, but it’s just not what it was, for me at least.

 

[wizenheimer]

To me, the team comparisons only make sense if one believes that if you replaced Drexler with Lillard on those teams, you'd expect them to do worse. Despite the fact that they played different positions, I don't think the team quality diminishes with Lillard in place of Drexler. In fact, I think the current Lillard makes them a superior team. Drexler was never as good as Lillard is right now.

And sure, Drexler was doing it against more physical defenses; Lillard is doing it against much more schematically sophisticated defenses, against legal zone defenses and with far more switchable defenses with better athletes to power them. At most, it's a wash and it's entirely possible that Lillard faces the greater defensive challenge between the two.

the only quibble I have with your analysis:

put Dame back in the era when physical defense, hand-checking, and impeding were all allowed and he would struggle on offense quite a bit. And the other side of that is move Drexler ahead to today when there was no hand-checking or his era's physical defense and he'd likely be a monster. Maybe similar to Kawhi

of course, in the early 90's if Dame was sinking 40% of his 28-35' three's, the world would have spun off it's axis