Game Thread PLAYOFFS: ROUND 1, GAME 3: LAKERS @ BLAZERS - AUGUST 22, 2020 - SATURDAY, 5:30, ABC

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Who's the better overall coach?


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I don’t see Caruso, Kuzma, Morris or Howard making much of a difference if they were on the blazers instead of the Lakers. Guys like Anfernee and Little are talented, but we have done nothing to develop them with this high pick and roll all game offense. Anfernee is a scorer who needs to be put in positions to score. He needs to play with Dame, not CJ, so he can be put in spots to score off the bench and he can build confidence so he is ready to play in games Like this.

We need to run some of the offense through Nurkic whether it is in the low post or the high post. He can score, he can pass, his size is a factor and we need him to go at Davis. We are hardly getting any easy shots.

For Trent, we should be running pin downs and curl actions to get him going. Instead we have him just stand in the corner all game, which makes him easy to defend. Even with the trap on the high pick and roll, the Lakers know exactly where he is going to be to scramble back and recover.

Our entire offense is high pick and roll all game with a splash of iso for Melo. There is no variety to our offense so it makes it easy for the lakers (a good defensive team) to lock in and slow Our attack.

We ran offense through Nurk tonight. Unless we got home a dunk by pulling over a defender, he mostly flipped up weak shots that didn't go in. A steady diet of that and we would've scored about 60 points.

Just having Kuzma come in over Mario would give us so much more options offensively. Howard could probably play more than 10 minutes without getting 4 fouls like Wenyen. Caruso sucks, but he didn't go 0-4 with 3 of those being good looks, like Ant. Morris would provide a tough 3-4 defender that we don'to have on this roster. I don't LOVE any of those guys, but they have proven to be far more valuable than guys like Mario.

Our history of developing players is pretty darn good if you ask me. We found ways to get produtivity out of a handful of 2nd round picks or guys that other teams didn't want.

Our offense is a lot more than high PnR. We run zipper action, flares, weaves, DHO's, and sets through our bigs at the elbow. Surely you hear all the other coaches and national commentators and even some players talk about how our offense is very effective at utilizing the skillset of the players on our roster. Offense doesn't succeed over half the time, so I suppose it's easy to notice a lot of failtures one you watch one team a lot more than others.
 
Which is exactly why we had to go on an unexpected and amazing run JUST TO GET IN THE DAMN PLAYOFFS!!!! You DO understand this right? We don’t have a lot of talent and it took an UNREAL run to get where we are. You JUST now are seeing we don’t have a lot of depth? Wonder if us missing THREE of our rotation forwards has anything to do with that?

This! Yet, I just responded to someone else who thinks we have as much depth or more than the Lakers. I mean, I love our own guys, but this team's bench is much closer to a G-League team than an NBA team.
 
a big change was needed, but the change needed to be an upgrade, not a major downgrade

I agree, an upgrade is always ideal. I think some people (not you), think getting rid of someone who hasn't checked all the boxes will more likely than not result in an automatic upgrade. The reality is, especially with our cap situation, we're not in a great position to get rid of C+/B- minus players and be confident who we get to replace them will be an upgrade. B- players are getting $10+ million a year, and we don't have that.

Same goes with getting rid of a coach because he's not top 5 or top 10. The odds of us landing a top 5 coach is very slim and the odds of us downgrading is probably higher than upgrading to a top 5 coach.

I don't think people realize we're only a couple of really dumb moves from being the Suns or the Kings. Once you get in that territory, and if you don't have a blank check owner like Paul Allen, it might be hard to get out of that territory for many years.[/QUOTE]
 
Lakers aren’t even that impressive. I think any playoff team in the west would love to face them. They are so lucky they are playing us
That defense is pretty damn impressive. Houston couldn't hold us like that. Boston couldn't hold us like that. They are rebounding like no one else. They have a really tough team actually and if they get past us they will still be the favorites in the West. The Clippers could beat them but they will beat every other team in the West and likely everyone in the East. That D is no joke. Having Lebron, AD, McGee, Howard rebounding for you is no joke. LeBron and AD can both do so many things, that's the best tandem in the NBA. Then they have two guys who protect the paint and love to dunk it. Then they have shooters who make wide open shots. We still have a chance against them but their D is going to give us real problems and our D gives no one any problems. The fact is, if they can get our offense to play out of sorts, speed us up, make us rush our shots when no one else has been able to... why won't they be able to do that to every offense they face? Give the Lakers some credit. Our guys could play better but the Lakers are the #1 seed in the West for a reason.
 
Just having Kuzma come in over Mario would give us so much more options offensively. Howard could probably play more than 10 minutes without getting 4 fouls like Wenyen. Caruso sucks, but he didn't go 0-4 with 3 of those being good looks, like Ant. Morris would provide a tough 3-4 defender that we don'to have on this roster. I don't LOVE any of those guys, but they have proven to be far more valuable than guys like Mario..

(not that it matters, but just because I like 'what if's', and even though it pisses some people off)

speaking of a major talent deficit on the bench, that 2017 draft. What if instead of Zach and Swanigan, Portland had

John Collins, and Og Anunoby (or Jarret Allen), and Kyle Kuzma (or Derreck White or Josh Hart)

or Bam Adebayo and Kyle Kuzma

or Donovan Mitchell and Kyle Kuzma (Mitchell is averaging 36 - 5 - 5 with a .749 TS% and a PER of 40.3 these playoffs)

one draft sure could have solved Portland's depth problems
 
We ran offense through Nurk tonight. Unless we got home a dunk by pulling over a defender, he mostly flipped up weak shots that didn't go in. A steady diet of that and we would've scored about 60 points.

Just having Kuzma come in over Mario would give us so much more options offensively. Howard could probably play more than 10 minutes without getting 4 fouls like Wenyen. Caruso sucks, but he didn't go 0-4 with 3 of those being good looks, like Ant. Morris would provide a tough 3-4 defender that we don'to have on this roster. I don't LOVE any of those guys, but they have proven to be far more valuable than guys like Mario.

Our history of developing players is pretty darn good if you ask me. We found ways to get produtivity out of a handful of 2nd round picks or guys that other teams didn't want.

Our offense is a lot more than high PnR. We run zipper action, flares, weaves, DHO's, and sets through our bigs at the elbow. Surely you hear all the other coaches and national commentators and even some players talk about how our offense is very effective at utilizing the skillset of the players on our roster. Offense doesn't succeed over half the time, so I suppose it's easy to notice a lot of failtures one you watch one team a lot more than others.

-Dwight is the same role as Whiteside and whiteside is just flat out better at this point.
-Trent is the same role as Kuzma and I would argue Trent contributes about the same offensively, but Is better defensively.
-Caruso is trash, but at least he can get them into offensive sets. Nobody on the blazers besides Dame seems capable of that,
-Hezonja is probably the worst wing in the playoffs, but both he and Gabriel are only playing because our starting 3 and 4 are out and hood was lost early in the season. Most teams don’t go 10 deep in the playoffs. Ariza was the guy to play stretch 3/4 in playoffs along with Melo.
-Melo and Nurkic are also much better than the lakers third or fourth option.
- Simons is more talented than every guard on the lakers, but we have not developed him or put him in spots to succeed .
- in regards to development, the only thing terry seems to develop is spot shooters.

Tonight’s game was about execution down the stretch. We were in position to win it, but Everytime it was a 1 or 2 possession game, we would take a terrible shot or turn it over. The lakers would take an uncontested shot, a layup or get to the foul line.

In terms of sets, while I agree those are in the playbook, it is very rare we call anything besides high PnR down the stretch. It would be nice if Terry would do his job and call a play that isn’t going to force us to get the ball out of our best player’s hands or forces him to take a highly contested, difficult shot.
 
(not that it matters, but just because I like 'what if's', and even though it pisses some people off)

speaking of a major talent deficit on the bench, that 2017 draft. What if instead of Zach and Swanigan, Portland had

John Collins, and Og Anunoby (or Jarret Allen), and Kyle Kuzma (or Derreck White or Josh Hart)

or Bam Adebayo and Kyle Kuzma

or Donovan Mitchell and Kyle Kuzma (Mitchell is averaging 36 - 5 - 5 with a .749 TS% and a PER of 40.3 these playoffs)

one draft sure could have solved Portland's depth problems

That post hurts because it's so true.
 
-Dwight is the same role as Whiteside and whiteside is just flat out better at this point.
-Trent is the same role as Kuzma and I would argue Trent contributes about the same offensively, but Is better defensively.
-Caruso is trash, but at least he can get them into offensive sets. Nobody on the blazers besides Dame seems capable of that,
-Hezonja is probably the worst wing in the playoffs, but both he and Gabriel are only playing because our starting 3 and 4 are out and hood was lost early in the season. Most teams don’t go 10 deep in the playoffs. Ariza was the guy to play stretch 3/4 in playoffs along with Melo.
-Melo and Nurkic are also much better than the lakers third or fourth option.
- Simons is more talented than every guard on the lakers, but we have not developed him or put him in spots to succeed .
- in regards to development, the only thing terry seems to develop is spot shooters.

Tonight’s game was about execution down the stretch. We were in position to win it, but Everytime it was a 1 or 2 possession game, we would take a terrible shot or turn it over. The lakers would take an uncontested shot, a layup or get to the foul line.

In terms of sets, while I agree those are in the playbook, it is very rare we call anything besides high PnR down the stretch. It would be nice if Terry would do his job and call a play that isn’t going to force us to get the ball out of our best player’s hands or forces him to take a highly contested, difficult shot.

You like our talent way more than I do and any other GM in the league does either. So we just won't be able to agree on that.

Have you seen our efficency when we run PnR with Dame and how it compares to the other sets? Over the past few years, our PnR efficiency with Dame/Nurk is near elite in terms of points per possession. We run other sets, but when it's winning time, we often like to have the ball in the hands of our best player, who has proven time and time again he can beat teams that are better than us.

The Lakers got uncontested shots because they have two 1st team NBA players, #1 picks, including a multiple MVP, neither of whom we have ANYONE to match up with. No matter who we put on LeBron or AD, they're going to have a size or speed mismatch. We rely on two 6'2" guards that have to make plays around multiple defenders taller than them. That's a big big difference in the types of options you have.
 
(not that it matters, but just because I like 'what if's', and even though it pisses some people off)

speaking of a major talent deficit on the bench, that 2017 draft. What if instead of Zach and Swanigan, Portland had

John Collins, and Og Anunoby (or Jarret Allen), and Kyle Kuzma (or Derreck White or Josh Hart)

or Bam Adebayo and Kyle Kuzma

or Donovan Mitchell and Kyle Kuzma (Mitchell is averaging 36 - 5 - 5 with a .749 TS% and a PER of 40.3 these playoffs)

one draft sure could have solved Portland's depth problems

We blew that draft big time. There was guys all over the range we had. Then we trade two picks to pick 10 and waste it on the wrong Collins.
 
Now that i have been chastised for not being a "Real Fan" i will say at least they put out some better effort in game 3.
The end result didn't change much but they did at least stay in the game. Problem is i think they lost this game during game 2. They are second guessing everything and obviously Lillard is not the same player.
I see a lack of synchronicity they were playing with before this series started. It ain't gonna come back without Dame being Damian Lillard. They have him down right now. It's obvious they are pushing him right which forces him to use the left hand to dribble or pass through the trap. Nurk is getting the ball slower and the defense can react easier.

Blazers need to use Dame as a shooting guard or off ball shooter more and also get Trent the ball on the arc. The lakers are also fronting Whiteside. They are leaving him WIDE open for the lob. If any coach is watching the film from this game they must be able to see this? A nice 6-8 points off lobs would change the entire look of the game.
I see KFC Eric ain't even posting on this thread. Like i said. If the Blazers somehow come back in this series (Which i absolutely hope they do) i will post for all to read what a "SuperFan" he is and how i am so very glad to be wrong.
 
I see KFC Eric ain't even posting on this thread. Like i said. If the Blazers somehow come back in this series (Which i absolutely hope they do) i will post for all to read what a "SuperFan" he is and how i am so very glad to be wrong.

we have LOL and ROTFLMA....we need some abbreviation to designate "I'm kind of chuckling right now"...I'd use it here

yeah, it's over the top when somebody decides they can define being as fan as 'me-good-fan-you-bad-fan'....there's no right and wrong to being a fan unless you're setting other peoples' cars on fire or deliberately dumping cheap beer on the clown in front of you

KFC got carried away when he tried to define correct fandom while babbling about a notebook with quitter's names. That was definitely a WTF moment

but it was also a game thread moment and being fans, posting in game threads sometimes means emotion is doing a tap-dance on reason's head. I think you need to make allowances for excessive hyperbole. Shit, I certainly have launched some hyperbolic missiles in game threads, although it's usually at players or coaches or officials or Reggie Miller.
 
but it was also a game thread moment and being fans, posting in game threads sometimes means emotion is doing a tap-dance on reason's head. I think you need to make allowances for excessive hyperbole. Shit, I certainly have launched some hyperbolic missiles in game threads, although it's usually at players or coaches or officials or Reggie Miller.

I totally agree. Maybe he could have also made "Allowances" for me saying some things i was feeling in the game thread also? We won't mention the fact that what i mentioned was not "Tap dancing on reason's head" at all.
 
Everyone I have ever known who had the chance to meet Mo Cheeks thought he was a great guy. I'm sure Dame would have loved him too.

I think I get where you're going, so I'll use that to launch my own little rant

Dame may be my favorite Blazer ever, and I've been a Blazer fan since before Bill Walton was drafted

but Dame is not the GM and he's not the coach. It always irritates me when we start talking about changing coaches or trading players and somebody tries to kill the discussion by saying whatever move being discussed would piss off Dame. Yeah, you need to try and keep the best player happy, but you also have to guard against his happiness holding the franchise hostage

Lebron has received lots of justified criticisms when he's leveraged his power to force his teams into making bad moves. That's been selfishness beating out due diligence and common sense. Dame's motives may be based on loyalty to teammates or to the coach, but ultimately, he could be using his power to force the team into bad moves, or prevent it from making good ones. The result from those "good motives" can be the same as from the "bad motives" of Lebron. And that's a team getting stuck into a non-contender position. A treadmill in purgatory.

Trading CJ for Paul George may have pissed Dame off initially, but it would have very likely made Portland better immediately and given them better options going forward. Moving on from Stotts may piss Dame off, but it also may bring in a coach who can devise better X's and O's, and motivate differently. Sure, any move can fail, but quickly failing gives you a chance for quicker recovery. That could easily be better than slow, mild, long term failure that eats away Dame's prime....and that sure looks like the track Portland is on
 
Jordan loved Doug Collins before Phil Jackson. Just saying.

for sure....and Dame was really good friends with Mason Plumlee and hated to see him traded. Now, he's a good friend of Nurkic and Portland is better
 
for sure....and Dame was really good friends with Mason Plumlee and hated to see him traded. Now, he's a good friend of Nurkic and Portland is better
I was hoping the Blazers could some how work a deal to get Plumlee back. They could use him in this series big time.
 
I was hoping the Blazers could some how work a deal to get Plumlee back. They could use him in this series big time.

I liked Mason Plumlee, but he has flaws for sure. I do think he'd be a better backup C than Whiteside, but the Blazers have very little flexibility after the Dame and CJ extensions
 
It's great because we settle for those midrange shots. You need to get an open 3, a shot at the rim, or a foul.

If you aren't going to attack and at least draw fouls, you might as well just hold up the white flag. And let's be honest, we attacked the rim in those situations maybe 50% of the time, and that's not going to cut it.
It seems like way back in the past; Stotts and our team was one of the pioneers in emphasizing three pointers and right at the basket. What happened to that?
 
Caruso is shit pie
He seems like to me a pretty darn good all-around player. Active defense and he is not short. Good passer, good driver. Doesn't turn the ball over much, shoots decent % from three. I have heard that LeBron loves him.
 
It seems like way back in the past; Stotts and our team was one of the pioneers in emphasizing three pointers and right at the basket. What happened to that?

not disputing anything...just thought I'd add this context on three's:

2012-13 - 4th in attempts, 20th in percentage
2103-14 - 3rd in attempts, 10th in percentage
2014-15 - 3rd in attempts, 8th in percentage (last year of Aldridge teams)
2015-16 - 6th in attempts, 4th in percentage
2016-17 - 10th in attempts, 6th in percentage
2017-18 - 19th in attempts, 11th in percentage
2018-19 - 18th in attempts, 9th in percentage
2019-20 - 3rd in attempts, 11th in percentage

of course, in terms of three's that's only half the story. There is also 3 point defense:

2012-13 - 10th in attempts, 3rd in percentage
2103-14 - 2nd in attempts, 11th in percentage
2014-15 - 2nd in attempts, 6th in percentage (last year of Aldridge teams)
2015-16 - 9th in attempts, 26th in percentage
2016-17 - 6th in attempts, 27th in percentage
2017-18 - 5th in attempts, 16th in percentage
2018-19 - 3rd in attempts, 20th in percentage
2019-20 - 26th in attempts, 29th in percentage

so then, if you look at the entire 3 point picture, offense + defense, Portland was pretty obviously better in the Aldridge years. That makes plenty of sense too because of Matthews and Batum both being really good perimeter defenders. They also had some ok to decent defense off the bench in guys like Dorell Wright, Will Barton, Gerald Henderson, Afflalo, plus the mobility of Aldridge (and TRob) to rotate out to the perimeter on switches

but for the most part, that was 3 point defense Olshey and Stotts inherited. Now, if you're a Stotts supporter you can point to cratering of 3 point defense in 2015-16, when Olshey finally got to be 100% responsible for the roster. I think it's clear that Olshey doesn't value perimeter defense. He went from the Matthews/Batum to the Aminu/Harkless defense to the WTF defense of this season. Matthew and Batum had quite a bit of help; Aminu and Harkless has very little help; and this year's defense was brain dead

I'm not a Stotts fan, at all, but this looks to me like it's more the fault of the architect than the contractor
 
He seems like to me a pretty darn good all-around player. Active defense and he is not short. Good passer, good driver. Doesn't turn the ball over much, shoots decent % from three. I have heard that LeBron loves him.

agreed

Caruso is better at running an offense than anybody Portland has had in Dame's tenure except for maybe Mo Williams. He's sure as hell better than CJ or Evan Turner, or Napier, or Simons, or Hezonja

and he's a solid defender with size. The irritating thing is he's just a role-player, and probably a below average one, but he's better than about 20 of the backup guards Olshey has run thru the Blazer roster over the last 8 seasons
 
not disputing anything...just thought I'd add this context on three's:

2012-13 - 4th in attempts, 20th in percentage
2103-14 - 3rd in attempts, 10th in percentage
2014-15 - 3rd in attempts, 8th in percentage (last year of Aldridge teams)
2015-16 - 6th in attempts, 4th in percentage
2016-17 - 10th in attempts, 6th in percentage
2017-18 - 19th in attempts, 11th in percentage
2018-19 - 18th in attempts, 9th in percentage
2019-20 - 3rd in attempts, 11th in percentage

of course, in terms of three's that's only half the story. There is also 3 point defense:

2012-13 - 10th in attempts, 3rd in percentage
2103-14 - 2nd in attempts, 11th in percentage
2014-15 - 2nd in attempts, 6th in percentage (last year of Aldridge teams)
2015-16 - 9th in attempts, 26th in percentage
2016-17 - 6th in attempts, 27th in percentage
2017-18 - 5th in attempts, 16th in percentage
2018-19 - 3rd in attempts, 20th in percentage
2019-20 - 26th in attempts, 29th in percentage

so then, if you look at the entire 3 point picture, offense + defense, Portland was pretty obviously better in the Aldridge years. That makes plenty of sense too because of Matthews and Batum both being really good perimeter defenders. They also had some ok to decent defense off the bench in guys like Dorell Wright, Will Barton, Gerald Henderson, Afflalo, plus the mobility of Aldridge (and TRob) to rotate out to the perimeter on switches

but for the most part, that was 3 point defense Olshey and Stotts inherited. Now, if you're a Stotts supporter you can point to cratering of 3 point defense in 2015-16, when Olshey finally got to be 100% responsible for the roster. I think it's clear that Olshey doesn't value perimeter defense. He went from the Matthews/Batum to the Aminu/Harkless defense to the WTF defense of this season. Matthew and Batum had quite a bit of help; Aminu and Harkless has very little help; and this year's defense was brain dead

I'm not a Stotts fan, at all, but this looks to me like it's more the fault of the architect than the contractor
thanks for posting that; I didn't realize we had come back up in attempts after a downward trend for four years. It does seem like there was more emphasis on defending the three in previous years.
 
not disputing anything...just thought I'd add this context on three's:

2012-13 - 4th in attempts, 20th in percentage
2103-14 - 3rd in attempts, 10th in percentage
2014-15 - 3rd in attempts, 8th in percentage (last year of Aldridge teams)
2015-16 - 6th in attempts, 4th in percentage
2016-17 - 10th in attempts, 6th in percentage
2017-18 - 19th in attempts, 11th in percentage
2018-19 - 18th in attempts, 9th in percentage
2019-20 - 3rd in attempts, 11th in percentage

of course, in terms of three's that's only half the story. There is also 3 point defense:

2012-13 - 10th in attempts, 3rd in percentage
2103-14 - 2nd in attempts, 11th in percentage
2014-15 - 2nd in attempts, 6th in percentage (last year of Aldridge teams)
2015-16 - 9th in attempts, 26th in percentage
2016-17 - 6th in attempts, 27th in percentage
2017-18 - 5th in attempts, 16th in percentage
2018-19 - 3rd in attempts, 20th in percentage
2019-20 - 26th in attempts, 29th in percentage

so then, if you look at the entire 3 point picture, offense + defense, Portland was pretty obviously better in the Aldridge years. That makes plenty of sense too because of Matthews and Batum both being really good perimeter defenders. They also had some ok to decent defense off the bench in guys like Dorell Wright, Will Barton, Gerald Henderson, Afflalo, plus the mobility of Aldridge (and TRob) to rotate out to the perimeter on switches

but for the most part, that was 3 point defense Olshey and Stotts inherited. Now, if you're a Stotts supporter you can point to cratering of 3 point defense in 2015-16, when Olshey finally got to be 100% responsible for the roster. I think it's clear that Olshey doesn't value perimeter defense. He went from the Matthews/Batum to the Aminu/Harkless defense to the WTF defense of this season. Matthew and Batum had quite a bit of help; Aminu and Harkless has very little help; and this year's defense was brain dead

I'm not a Stotts fan, at all, but this looks to me like it's more the fault of the architect than the contractor
You're ignoring how much the game has changed since 2012. Compare the number of three pointers taken then to now.
 
In the year of the pandemic, with the season interrupted and modified (and played in the summer when most people are outside, pandemic be damned) the NBA needs the TV ratings. That means that the Lakers (with James and Davis) are a lock for the finals, no matter who they go against. Add the loss of Kobe and I’m sure the (already self entitled) Lakers (especially “King” James) feel they are owed a championship. And I’m not sure that the NBA powers that be are in disagreement. Sorry for the cynicism, but the Blazers could play absolutely perfect basketball (though they haven’t even come near to that yet) and they’d still get hosed by the refs/league administration. The NBA is about as close to the WWE as you can get when it comes to the final results.........
 
In the year of the pandemic, with the season interrupted and modified (and played in the summer when most people are outside, pandemic be damned) the NBA needs the TV ratings. That means that the Lakers (with James and Davis) are a lock for the finals, no matter who they go against. Add the loss of Kobe and I’m sure the (already self entitled) Lakers (especially “King” James) feel they are owed a championship. And I’m not sure that the NBA powers that be are in disagreement. Sorry for the cynicism, but the Blazers could play absolutely perfect basketball (though they haven’t even come near to that yet) and they’d still get hosed by the refs/league administration. The NBA is about as close to the WWE as you can get when it comes to the final results.........
I was thinking about that after the last game with the foul discrepencies...CJ and Melo were in the paint all night and had zero free throws...they were getting mauled all game...the NBA would love a Celtics Lakers finals....Celtics just swept the 76ers
 
I just want to say the makeup of this team is all wrong. When you got your guards shooting almost 50 percent your shots and then you throw Melo then got 3 players taking approximately 70 Percent of your shots. So basically the other team has to guard 3 players with 5 players. They really haven't got Nurk in the offense even though when they did at times didn't look very well. But we really are totally domaniating is our guards they look to score almost every time they bring the ball up but it depends which one brings the ball up. CJ is worst then Dame he will fancy dribble all around until he shoots sometimes there good and at other he either loose the ball or throw un wise shot. I nothing against CJ but I believe we could be more balanced team if we traded him for some quality players just my opinion.
 
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