Politics Please say rock bottom is getting close (5 Viewers)

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I qualified my statement by saying 'generally' -- I think it would be hard for you to come up with a compelling way of convincing me Democrats as a whole are as bad as Republicans as a whole. The parties are different, I am sorry but your narrative is false, and although I know you are upset that they are not achieving more, and I can sympathize with your frustration, it doesn't help in any way to lump them together. Even Joe Manchin is better than virtually any Republican in office even if I only agree with him on about 50-70% of subjects, that is 50-70% more than any Republican currently in congress.

Saying Joe Biden or Joe Manchin is just as bad as a Republican is not only not true, it is counter productive to what you claim to be your agenda.

Let me put it this way. Democrats appear to be deliberately not good enough to counter Republicans. That's a long way from being a force for good in my eyes.

If we don't start supporting MUCH better Democrats very soon it will be too late to matter.
 
Let me put it this way. Democrats appear to be deliberately not good enough to counter Republicans. That's a long way from being a force for good in my eyes.

If we don't start supporting MUCH better Democrats very soon it will be too late to matter.

Now that I can get behind, I agree with that. We need a new FDR or Teddy Roosevelt that is for sure.
 
I don't know who "they" are or what they want but no politician has me by the short and curlies...I'm not holding up signs and waiving flags. I'm very critical of any liar or threat against my freedoms and choices. As to guns....that's not such a partisan issue...plenty of non republicans love and own guns...that's a topic of controversy that is not controlled by either party at all. Gas prices I can wait out but my truck driving friend can't...global warming is a moot point when the world is bombing the shit out of sovereign nations. We're feeding the war with bombs and weapons that cause hell on the environment and global warming but that doesn't mean we don't prefer peace....shit happens and people will shoot each other over it. Arms dealers are in hog heaven over war. Biden tried diplomacy with Russia and they didn't come to the table willing peace
"They" are the elite, including the Democrats, who take more from us all the time. The American Oligarchy.
 
Let me put it this way. Democrats appear to be deliberately not good enough to counter Republicans. That's a long way from being a force for good in my eyes.

If we don't start supporting MUCH better Democrats very soon it will be too late to matter.
You should watch the Jan 6th new evidence and testimony tomorrow......the majority of politicians holding the crooks accountable are democrats...the ones refusing subpoenas are republicans...that tells you what you need to know. This insurrection is historical and if the Senate had impeached Trump the first time...Joe wouldn't have been even running for president. They are to be commended for their efforts to protect our republic...not lumped in with the MAGA crowd as if they all serve the same master....they don't.
 
Or they have a much much dumber base. Selling to the derp derp party pretty easy.

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” Joseph Goebbels. Eventually the lie will come to consume them, and the state won't be able to protect the derps from the economic and political consequences. This time the enemy at the gates won't be Russian though, it will be a desert and sea level that has swallowed up most livable land.
 
"They" are the elite, including the Democrats, who take more from us all the time. The American Oligarchy.
The 1% are the lobby you should be concerned with and yes...they buy a lot of influence in DC....fortunately not all of them are dishonest...and enough of them that we are investigating corruption at the highest level.....the 1% have been profiting from us for your whole life...that's never changed. Pay for play is a problem with capitalism which is why I don't think pure capitalism works ..and you need to tax the shit out of them and let their gross profits fix our power grid and house our homeless...I also think govt officials should be paid just like public servants...teacher salaries. Not CEO salaries...watch the greedy scramble to the private sector when they are making standard military rank salaries.
 
You should watch the Jan 6th new evidence and testimony tomorrow......the majority of politicians holding the crooks accountable are democrats...the ones refusing subpoenas are republicans...that tells you what you need to know. This insurrection is historical and if the Senate had impeached Trump the first time...Joe wouldn't have been even running for president. They are to be commended for their efforts to protect our republic...not lumped in with the MAGA crowd as if they all serve the same master....they don't.
I've been paying attention. Though I work and don't have time to catch every detail.

But of course Democrats would be the ones pushing this. But there are Republicans as well.

Trump isn't a part of either Dems or Republicans. They both hate him.

Trump is the logical result of what Democrats and Republicans want to get back to. And next time it will be a much better effort. With a likely much better tactician...
 
I've been paying attention. Though I work and don't have time to catch every detail.

But of course Democrats would be the ones pushing this. But there are Republicans as well.

Trump isn't a part of either Dems or Republicans. They both hate him.

Trump is the logical result of what Democrats and Republicans want to get back to. And next time it will be a much better effort. With a likely much better tactician...
Republicans don’t hate him. Period.
 
Trump is the logical result of what Democrats and Republicans want to get back to.
No he's not...he's what religious fundementalist preachers and white supremacists want to get back to. ..that's a completely false equivalency in my view. Man I don't know how you can say that with a straight face. ...Obama had 8 years without trying to make himself a dictator yet you honestly think he wants a Trump to hold power over our country? Don't know how you got there.
 
Look, our government was designed from the start to help an elite social class to profit from the exploitation of a lower class. We should not be shocked that the system is working as intended. The United States government is returning to its intended form after some decades spent on a detour barely close enough to socialism to see it with binoculars.

The majority population of the United States, again by design and original intent, was pressed into coerced labor by a ruling class who used the laws and enforcers of the laws to keep the fences around the labor force in place. Slavery is still explicitly legal in all 50 states; an attempt this year to get slavery for prisoners banned in California couldn't even get to a vote.

The minimum wage is so low because it creates a coercive power dynamic. Healthcare is private because it creates a coercive power dynamic. Neoliberalism was designed to undo social programs through privatization, and it succeeded. You have to work to live, because social services aren't free. You have to work at the wages they give you, because there is always an unemployed pool of workers waiting to take your job if you lose it.

All of this is working as intended. The system is unjust and oppressive, and the only difference between the two parties is the speed at which your oppression proceeds.

I'm friends with a veteran. We've talked at length about the next 20-50 years in the US. We are not going to see the end of this oppressive state, but we might live to see the beginning of its balkanization and protracted civil war era. I only hope the warlord that runs Cascadia is kind, but let's be realistic; if we have to rely on military and police power to maintain borders, we will not see compassion within the borders either.
 
No he's not...he's what religious fundementalist preachers and white supremacists want to get back to. ..that's a completely false equivalency in my view. Man I don't know how you can say that with a straight face. ...Obama had 8 years without trying to make himself a dictator yet you honestly think he wants a Trump to hold power over our country? Don't know how you got there.
That's not what I said. Nobody in power wanted Trump. But an authoritarian despot is the logical result of American politics between about Reagan and Obama... It'll settle back to the next Trump, and I bet it'll happen quicker each time like a bouncing ball until it stays that way.

The system Hillary, Biden, and the DNC stand for is what will give us a Trump. We have to progress beyond that or it all falls to shit. That will take radical change without great restrictions. Great restrictions will bring with it great resistance.

That is what will prevent us from progressing further than 2015. If we don't get real about that, 2015 will likely be the best year any of us will ever live to see. There isn't another soviet union that will collapse and give us decades of low interest growth.

We actually need to grow up now.
 
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That's not what I said. Nobody in power wanted Trump. But an authoritarian despot is the logical result of American politics between about Reagan and Obama... It'll settle back to the next Trump, and I bet it'll happen quicker each time like a bouncing ball until it stays that way.
you said the logical result is a common factor here and I don't believe it or think it'll happen nor that another Trump will stick in the political landscape...he's dipped in complete shame today..not getting your Reagan to Obama connection
 
you said the logical result is a common factor here and I don't believe it or think it'll happen nor that another Trump will stick in the political landscape...he's dipped in complete shame today..not getting your Reagan to Obama connection
DeSantis?

People don't trust their leaders. They will get frustrated and vote for an authoritarian despot to "drain the swamp" again.
 
you said the logical result is a common factor here and I don't believe it or think it'll happen nor that another Trump will stick in the political landscape...he's dipped in complete shame today..not getting your Reagan to Obama connection
I don’t think in our lifetimes we will ever see the Republican Party of pre-Trump again. Not a chance. And the reason is not the DNCs fault. It is that the right is chalk full of cowards who are scared to death of the Trump cult. He is quite literally a bully, like the HS kid who people think is a joke but nobody stands up to him because then you feel the wrath. The right needs to bond together and push him out. But that takes both courage and a plan neither of which they have
 
<Sigh>
Yeah, I guess we should just keep on keepin' on. It's been working out pretty well...
 
That's not what I said. Nobody in power wanted Trump. But an authoritarian despot is the logical result of American politics between about Reagan and Obama... It'll settle back to the next Trump, and I bet it'll happen quicker each time like a bouncing ball until it stays that way.

Maybe.

The system Hillary, Biden, and the DNC stand for is what will give us a Trump. We have to progress beyond that or it all falls to shit.

Maybe.

That will take radical change without great restrictions. Great restrictions will bring with it great resistance.

I'm very curious what you mean by 'great restrictions'. Restrictions on what?

As for the radical change part, you pretty much need a new system of government for that. Ours is specifically designed to thwart radical change. Maybe that's what you meant by great restrictions? The constitution?

Holy shit, aren't you the guy who keeps insisting we can't do anything about guns because they are mentioned in the constitution? Don't you see a bit of a practicality problem with your call for radical change?

That is what will prevent us from progressing further than 2015. If we don't get real about that, 2015 will likely be the best year any of us will ever live to see. There isn't another soviet union that will collapse and give us decades of low interest growth.

We actually need to grow up now.

You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world

barfo
 
Maybe.



Maybe.



I'm very curious what you mean by 'great restrictions'. Restrictions on what?
Strict laws on guns would be one example.

Another recent example would be trying to restrict teachers from praying, even though it doesn't negatively impact their job and they aren't forcing anybody else to do it.

As for the radical change part, you pretty much need a new system of government for that. Ours is specifically designed to thwart radical change. Maybe that's what you meant by great restrictions? The constitution?

Holy shit, aren't you the guy who keeps insisting we can't do anything about guns because they are mentioned in the constitution? Don't you see a bit of a practicality problem with your call for radical change?



You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world

barfo
I'm not advocating for anything which would require changes to the constitution. The constitution doesn't restrict people. It limits restrictions the government is allowed to impose on the people.

Drastic changes are coming one way or another. For the next 25 years or so we're going to have a labor shortage. We've had negative immigration from Mexico for the last decade or so.

And we're going to need to bring manufacturing back to North America.

So there is going to be a time of high inflation and growth.

We don't need a new system of government to pay people's medical bills. We don't need a new system of government to pay for people's education. We don't need a new system of government house the homeless, or feed the hungry.

The list goes on. What we need are Dem leaders who aren't corrupt.
 
Strict laws on guns would be one example.

Another recent example would be trying to restrict teachers from praying, even though it doesn't negatively impact their job and they aren't forcing anybody else to do it.

It seems the facts of that case are otherwise - he was encouraging students to join him and giving little sermons.

I'm not advocating for anything which would require changes to the constitution. The constitution doesn't restrict people. It limits restrictions the government is allowed to impose on the people.

Drastic changes are coming one way or another.

They are coming the other way. Not from our government, from outside forces.

For the next 25 years or so we're going to have a labor shortage. We've had negative immigration from Mexico for the last decade or so.

And we're going to need to bring manufacturing back to North America.

So there is going to be a time of high inflation and growth.

That certainly could be.

We don't need a new system of government to pay people's medical bills. We don't need a new system of government to pay for people's education. We don't need a new system of government house the homeless, or feed the hungry.

Sure we do. Or you need to wave a magic wand and get everyone to agree with you. Or does it seem like we are very close to national unity on all those issues?

The list goes on. What we need are Dem leaders who aren't corrupt.

That's hardly the main thing you need. Wave your other magic wand and turn every Democratic politician into a saint who agrees with you 100% on every issue. What difference would it make? Does that change the court? Does that change the 50 Republican senators? Do any of your saints even get reelected in November?

barfo
 
It seems the facts of that case are otherwise - he was encouraging students to join him and giving little sermons.



They are coming the other way. Not from our government, from outside forces.



That certainly could be.



Sure we do. Or you need to wave a magic wand and get everyone to agree with you. Or does it seem like we are very close to national unity on all those issues?



That's hardly the main thing you need. Wave your other magic wand and turn every Democratic politician into a saint who agrees with you 100% on every issue. What difference would it make? Does that change the court? Does that change the 50 Republican senators? Do any of your saints even get reelected in November?

barfo
The right kind of leader could get you there. But they have to be able to get over the partisan bullshit. Playing the same old game never will.

Obviously, Republican leaders who aren't corrupt would help as well. But I don't see that happening.

The right kind of leader when we have the next catastrophe... Could make all the difference. And there will be more and more catastrophes.
 
That’s why people want trump back. The old rigged, propped up stock market. But our 401ks were kicking ass.
I didn’t realize the stock market suddenly became regulated after Trump. Thank god for Biden.
 
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