Politifact Confirms Bernie Sanders’ Healthcare Plan Will SAVE Every American Family $1,200/Year

[dviss1]

http://usuncut.com/news/bernie-sanders-healthcare-plan-would-save-the-average-american-family-1200/

According to Politifact’s recent analysis of Bernie Sanders’ proposal to expand Medicare to all Americans under his “Medicare for All” single-payer healthcare system, Sanders’ plan would save the average household between $505 and $1,823 per year — just shy of a $1,200 average cost savings. While this figure is lower than the Sanders campaign’s estimate of $3,855 to $5,173 in savings, it still means American families will pay less under single-payer healthcare than they currently do under the Affordable Care Act.

 

[Denny Crane]

Did you really read your own link?

Politifact says the plan is short by $500B+ a year, that taxes go way up on the middle class, and wages get docked by 6.7% to boot.

It's simply disingenuous to claim "I'll save you money because I'm charging a huge chunk of expenses on the credit card" because the credit card does need to be paid off.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ch-would-bernie-sanders-health-care-plan-cos/


By our napkin calculations, those making more than $200,000 — roughly the top 5 percent of income earners — would contribute about $117 billion to the single-payer system, while everyone else would pay in $126 billion. Payroll taxes yield an additional $432 billion for a total of $675 billion.

That’s still $599 billion short of what the country actually spent on health care in 2013 ($949 billion in premiums and $325 billion for out-of-pocket expenses, according to the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services).

 

[Denny Crane]

The last bit is blistering, too.

Bitter pills

Even if we set aside the issue of a potentially unbalanced ledger, experts point out several other problems with Sanders’ simple promise of savings.

First, it’s not guaranteed that workers will have the same quality or amount of care under a Medicare-for-all system.

Most employer-based health insurance policies currently have more comprehensive coverage than traditional Medicare, pointed out William Hsiao, a leading health economist at Harvard University who designed universal coverage systems for Vermont, China, Sweden, and South Africa, to name a few.

While Sanders argues that single-payer will make the health system more efficient, "we have seen no evidence of this from the Medicare program, whose cost has grown substantially faster than the economy for most of the last 50 years," Antos said.

Second, reduced costs could also create issues with access. Lower drug prices limit funding for research and development, lower physicians’ salaries disincentivize people going into medicine, lower fees could bankrupt hospitals, and people would have less choice in health plans, listed Hussey.

And finally, experts expressed skepticism that lawmakers would ever pass Sanders’ single-payer system, which would require a tax increase of hundreds of billions.

"Keep in mind each dollar saved is a reduction in someone’s income, which is part of why this plan is politically untenable," said Don Taylor, a professor of health policy at Duke University. "But if you could wave your hand and do it, we could spend less."

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

It will cost me more. My employer pays for the majority of my premiums.

 

[MARIS61]

Did you really read your own link?

Politifact says the plan is short by $500B+ a year, that taxes go way up on the middle class, and wages get docked by 6.7% to boot.

It's simply disingenuous to claim "I'll save you money because I'm charging a huge chunk of expenses on the credit card" because the credit card does need to be paid off.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ch-would-bernie-sanders-health-care-plan-cos/


By our napkin calculations, those making more than $200,000 — roughly the top 5 percent of income earners — would contribute about $117 billion to the single-payer system, while everyone else would pay in $126 billion. Payroll taxes yield an additional $432 billion for a total of $675 billion.

That’s still $599 billion short of what the country actually spent on health care in 2013 ($949 billion in premiums and $325 billion for out-of-pocket expenses, according to the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services).

Did you read your own post? It compares figures where scores of millions of people were left without any healthcare to figures that would guarantee 100% coverage across America.

 

[Denny Crane]

Did you read your own post? It compares figures where scores of millions of people were left without any healthcare to figures that would guarantee 100% coverage across America.

The claim is Bernie's plan saves everyone money. It doesn't. Everyone who has coverage now will get inferior coverage and will be taxed more to pay for those who "were left without any healthcare."

The numbers add up to $6T of new debt over 10 years. Or he's going to have to raise taxes by an additional $600B a year.

To put that into perspective, he'd have to raise additional taxes, above and beyond those he proposes already to pay for his plan. Income taxes paid by individuals up 50% for everyone. Or triple the income tax on all businesses (like realtors).

It's just nuts.

Making government great again is a stupid idea.

 

[Denny Crane]

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Did you read your own post? It compares figures where scores of millions of people were left without any healthcare to figures that would guarantee 100% coverage across America.

That distinction doesn't change the fact that the Sanders plan calls for $675 billion of total contributions to cover what was presumably over $1.2 trillion of healthcare expenses the prior year. How exactly does the government pay for all of the claims? Do they force doctors to take 60 cents on the dollar? Are we identifying the 40% of health expenditures that the single-payer system won't cover? Or are we going to have to significantly increase the required contributions to sufficiently fund the system?

 

[Denny Crane]

I don't know of any government program that costs what was promised before enacted. They all cost quite a bit more.

 

[blue32]

Jesus, when can we stop with this Bernie Sanders fucking bullshit; this guy is going to bankrupt the entire nation.

 

[dviss1]

Jesus, when can we stop with this Bernie Sanders fucking bullshit; this guy is going to bankrupt the entire nation.

You can't come up with a credible argument.

 

[dviss1]

The claim is Bernie's plan saves everyone money. It doesn't. Everyone who has coverage now will get inferior coverage and will be taxed more to pay for those who "were left without any healthcare."

The numbers add up to $6T of new debt over 10 years. Or he's going to have to raise taxes by an additional $600B a year.

To put that into perspective, he'd have to raise additional taxes, above and beyond those he proposes already to pay for his plan. Income taxes paid by individuals up 50% for everyone. Or triple the income tax on all businesses (like realtors).

It's just nuts.

Making government great again is a stupid idea.

So just because you say we will get inferior coverage it's true? Just because you say it?

 

[Denny Crane]

So just because you say we will get inferior coverage it's true? Just because you say it?

It costs money to provide the service. If you are replacing $10,000 services for $3,500 ones, something has to give. You're asking a lot of the doctors to take a 75% pay cut.

 

[blue32]

You can't come up with a credible argument.

I don't need to, Denny and other sites online have done that for me. You continually refuse to listen.

 

[blue32]

It costs money to provide the service. If you are replacing $10,000 services for $3,500 ones, something has to give. You're asking a lot of the doctors to take a 75% pay cut.

Pick 2 ;-) or some shit, ya?

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Isnt it commonly known that canadas healthcare system is worse than americas?

Brock lesnar said he got treatment in canada for a life threatening medical issue and had to come to america for better care to save his life because what he was getting in canada was horrible.

 

[Denny Crane]

Here's the real rub. We've spent so much on social democracy already that we've caused great harm to many people. We have 47M on food stamps, for example. As always, there's never enough money to cover the true cost so we've borrowed against the social security trust fund to pay for it. Soon, when it comes time to pay benefits the debt will have to be paid off. More higher taxes and we won't be repairing the highways as much (if at all).

There is no free shit, just empty promises of free shit. And I do mean shit.

 

[dviss1]

Isnt it commonly known that canadas healthcare system is worse than americas?

Brock lesnar said he got treatment in canada for a life threatening medical issue and had to come to america for better care to save his life because what he was getting in canada was horrible.

No this is not commonly known. This is what the supporters of the status quo would have you believe though.

And our sick-care system is great. For those that can afford to have access to it.

This is the problem that single payer detractors simply don't give a shit about. They continuously complain about the cost. While that's a huge problem, it's not the biggest one. Access to care is our biggest problem.

 

[Denny Crane]

No this is not commonly known. This is what the supporters of the status quo would have you believe though.

And our sick-care system is great. For those that can afford to have access to it.

This is the problem that single payer detractors simply don't give a shit about. They continuously complain about the cost. While that's a huge problem, it's not the biggest one. Access to care is our biggest problem.

Before ObamaScam, it was the law that nobody be denied health care. Emergency rooms could not legally turn people away. Once at the emergency room, the care was as good as anywhere in the country. The doctors and hospitals do not want to get sued.

 

[dviss1]

Before ObamaScam, it was the law that nobody be denied health care. Emergency rooms could not legally turn people away. Once at the emergency room, the care was as good as anywhere in the country. The doctors and hospitals do not want to get sued.

And those trips to the emergency room are the reason why health care premiums Skyrocket. One of the main reasons for Health Care inflation being so high. And before romneycare, insurance companies could kick people off the rolls that WERE paying their premiums!

 

[blue32]

And those trips to the emergency room are the reason why health care premiums Skyrocket. One of the main reasons for Health Care inflation being so high. And before romneycare, insurance companies could kick people off the rolls that WERE paying their premiums!

Prove that it was the sole reason. Because I can think of many others that trump that, one being fraud.

 

[Denny Crane]

And those trips to the emergency room are the reason why health care premiums Skyrocket. One of the main reasons for Health Care inflation being so high. And before romneycare, insurance companies could kick people off the rolls that WERE paying their premiums!

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/240924-er-visits-climb-under-obamacare-poll-finds

Emergency room visits have increased under ObamaCare despite the law’s intention to reduce their use for standard medical care, a new survey finds.

The survey of ER doctors finds that three-quarters say their number of patients has increased since ObamaCare’s insurance mandate took effect at the beginning of 2014.
The American College of Emergency Physicians (ACEP), which conducted the survey, pointed to the shortage of primary care doctors and the low payment rates from Medicaid, which accounts for much of ObamaCare’s coverage expansion.

"America has severe primary care physician shortages, and many physicians will not accept Medicaid patients because Medicaid pays so inadequately,” Dr. Michael Gerardi, president of ACEP, said in a statement. "Just because people have health insurance does not mean they have access to timely medical care.”

---

"Medicare for all"
-- Bernie Sanders

 

[Denny Crane]

http://www.managedcaremag.com/node/6453

Interesting things happen to two adjacent countries with dissimilar health care funding and delivery mechanisms: Differences in access and cost of care create individual and institutional anomalies. A case in point: The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) ranks Canada in the bottom third of its 29 member countries for availability of certain medical technological devices, such as magnetic resonance imaging and computed tomography scanners, yet places it fifth in national health expenditures (1997 data). Life-saving high-tech medicine is rationed out of reach of some Canadians.

Recognizing their failure to provide timely treatment through the national system, some provincial governments are sending backlogged patients to the United States rather than encouraging Canada's private sector to pick up the slack.

 

[Denny Crane]

Canadian system is great for the 1%.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...oad-for-treatment-increased-by-25-study-finds

The number of Canadian patients who travelled abroad in 2014 to receive non-emergency medical treatment increased 25% from 2013, according to a study conducted by the Fraser Institute, a Canadian independent research and education organization.

In 2014, 52,513 Canadians travelled beyond our borders to seek medical treatment, compared with 41,838 in 2013. The numbers suggest that the Canadian health care system could not comply with the needs and demands of a substantial number of Canadian patients, according to the study.

The percentage of Canadian patients who travelled abroad to receive non-emergency medical care was 1.1 per cent, an increase compared to 0.9 per cent in 2013.

 

[MARIS61]

I don't know of any government program that costs what was promised before enacted. They all cost quite a bit more.

The lone exception is Social Security which would have an astounding perpetual surplus if it had been left alone rather than being continually stolen from by politicians to fund a myriad of other programs, expanded to cover non- Americans, and altered to excuse the rich from paying their fair share.

 

[MARIS61]

http://www.managedcaremag.com/node/6453

Interesting things happen to two adjacent countries with dissimilar health care funding and delivery mechanisms: Differences in access and cost of care create individual and institutional anomalies. A case in point: The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) ranks Canada in the bottom third of its 29 member countries for availability of certain medical technological devices, such as magnetic resonance imaging and computed tomography scanners, yet places it fifth in national health expenditures (1997 data). Life-saving high-tech medicine is rationed out of reach of some Canadians.

Recognizing their failure to provide timely treatment through the national system, some provincial governments are sending backlogged patients to the United States rather than encouraging Canada's private sector to pick up the slack.

Strange that my Canadian fairly well-to-do relatives love their healthcare so much that they mock me for staying in America and my poorer friends here travel to Canada for surgeries and to Mexico for dental care.

THEY MUST BE STUPID!

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Strange that my Canadian fairly well-to-do relatives love their healthcare so much that they mock me for staying in America and my poorer friends here travel to Canada for surgeries and to Mexico for dental care.

THEY MUST BE STUPID!

The dental care in Mexico thing is absolutely legit. I've often wondered why competent dentists are able to provide equivalent services in Mexico for 20% or less the cost of US dentists. Is their overhead significantly lower? Do Mexican dentists have lower salary expectations? I'd love to examine the books of some dentists on either side of the border to make a comparative analysis.

 

[riverman]

The dental care in Mexico thing is absolutely legit. I've often wondered why competent dentists are able to provide equivalent services in Mexico for 20% or less the cost of US dentists. Is their overhead significantly lower? Do Mexican dentists have lower salary expectations? I'd love to examine the books of some dentists on either side of the border to make a comparative analysis.

Probably Mexican dental practices pay a fraction of the tax of their American counterparts if they pay any at all..

 

[KeepOnRollin]

I not sure if prices have gone way up in Canada since then or not but I do know that as recently as 5 or 6 years ago a lot of people who lived in the upper-half of the US would travel to Canada for Lasik because it was so much cheaper. At that time, it was a 3rd of the price roughly to get your eyes done there vs here.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

The dental care in Mexico thing is absolutely legit. I've often wondered why competent dentists are able to provide equivalent services in Mexico for 20% or less the cost of US dentists. Is their overhead significantly lower? Do Mexican dentists have lower salary expectations? I'd love to examine the books of some dentists on either side of the border to make a comparative analysis.

I think the Dentists themselves make pretty good money in Mexico it is just the other things are lower. Their assistants don't get paid shit. Their rent is nothing. As Riverman said, the taxes are low. Etc.

I have a family member who lives in Yuma AZ and she only goes to Mexico for dental, eye or medical procedures. Pays out of pocket for less than her monthly insurance premium in the US would be. She says she has been treated great and has never had a complication before, during or after a procedure.