Poll: If Dame Doesn't Ask Out

[Ed O]

umm injuries are not black and white as you seem to indicate.
Put up the amount of games missed by our starters up to the all Star break compared to the top ten best record teams in the nba and get back to me. Until then, little substance to your post without equating injuries into the context.

You break it down if you're curious. I was right about injuries happening and I was right about this team while it's possible that I just HAPPENED to be correct, I'll take that chance.

It's not my job to convince you of anything... you will either pay attention to what's actually happening or not.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

You break it down if you're curious. I was right about injuries happening and I was right about this team while it's possible that I just HAPPENED to be correct, I'll take that chance.

It's not my job to convince you of anything... you will either pay attention to what's actually happening or not.

If you arent gonna post the injury stats then you aren't right about squat. You are hiding behind your opinion without supporting it with facts. Until you bring the facts your opinion means jack. Support your opinions with facts backed by STATS or don't be taken seriously. Your choice…

You made a comment, I asked you to back it up with the stats. You wont. Pretty. Sure you wont because the stats will not support your claim and will show a lopsided injury history.
Lol. Classic.

 

[STOMP]

So OTHER than last year, he never missed more than 10% of the games when he was younger? I don't understand how that adds up to "always". haha

If you didn't see him getting injured this year, then you weren't paying attention. And you probably thought this team was going to be good. And that Cronin was going to build a good roster.

With a good section of the fanbase it's the same thing every off season... build up ridiculous hopes around the new additions & overlook glaring holes in the lineup to come to the desired conclusion of Blazer dominance. When the season happens and reality sets in, it's the coach's fault & those here who were pointing to the obvious roster issues in the offseason are just big jerkfaces to be lashed out at. Is it any surprise this same contingent is expecting their guy to be the first ever to defeat Father Time?

I don't view a GM's role as playing to the masses popularity wishes. Their job is (primarily) to make the roster better and put together a contender. Fail to do that and they will lose their job and struggle to ever get another shot at the helm. As such, I'm always open to trading any player if the return is solidly to the team's benefit. I didn't vote here as I don't view their position the way the poll frames it. The only reason to trade a guy without knowing whats coming back is if they're a bad apple you want away from the rest of the team.

STOMP

 

[SharpesTriumph]

If you arent gonna post the injury stats then you aren't right about squat. You are hiding behind your opinion without supporting it with facts. Until you bring the facts your opinion means jack. Support your opinions with facts backed by STATS or don't be taken seriously. Your choice…

You made a comment, I asked you to back it up with the stats. You wont. Pretty. Sure you wont because the stats will not support your claim and will show a lopsided injury history.
Lol. Classic.

Your the one who brought up the idea of a stat of games missed, and claimed it would support your opinion, then you didn't provide that stat.

It a very odd way to structure an argument. Perhaps it further convinces yourself of your position. It did nothing to convince me or I'd suspect any rational reader.

 

[Hoopguru]

I don't think Dame will do anything until July free agency is finished. If the Blazers get Wemba or a rookie Dame is real high on it might be enough for him to stay. If Grant leaves Dame might want out regardless. Maybe Dame is in regardless, but I feel like if he knows it's another lottery year he might want to move on.

Does seem like there is a real chance we've seen the last of Dame as a Blazer. The team doesn't have a feasible way to contend soon, and seems much more likely we fall short in free agency as has nearly always been the case for 20 years.

Wouldn't be shocked if Dame stays or they trade him. However I would be surprised if we hear any discussions or rumors on it. I think it stays confidential untill it actually is finalized.

I wouldn't be surprised if Dame played out his contract here and retired. He's got the league pegged and I believe he's a man that's anticipating his life after round ball. He has it made here in Portland and I don't see him wanting to uproot his family put them through all the hassle. They both have other interest outside of basketball. Dont see him wanting to chase a ring. He's wearing his ring now...

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Your the one who brought up the idea of a stat of games missed, and claimed it would support your opinion, then you didn't provide that stat.

It a very odd way to structure an argument. Perhaps it further convinces yourself of your position. It did nothing to convince me or I'd suspect any rational reader.

Lol...

You know what? I did the work @Ed O was too lazy to do. I'm a believer when you come with an opinion, and you want that opinion to sell, it should be backed up with facts. Not for someone else to have to prove the opinion wrong. Its one thing to say "you know, I think this, but I don't have anything to base it off of, Its just my opinion." That's respectable. But to say pay attention to what's happening and not provide stats to back it up? seriously?

Laughable.

Anyhow. Taking the top 6 guys from the beginning of the season from a few teams, these are the games played...

Blazers - 315 total games
Dame - 58
Simons - 62
Grant - 63
Nurk - 52
Hart - 51
Winslow - 29

Celtics - 391 total games
Tatom - 70
Brown - 64
Brogdon - 63
White - 76
Smart - 58
Horford - 60

Nuggets -395 total games
Jokic - 67
Murray - 61
Porter - 58
gordon - 63
Pope - 72
Brown - 74

Bucks - 362 total games
Giannis - 60
Holiday - 63
Lopez - 74
Middleton - 30
Portis - 65
Allen - 70

so of these other top tear teams that everyone wants us to be competitive with, we missed almost 30 games combined compared to the Bucks, and almost 80 more games than the Celtics and The Nuggets.
Now does anyone want to say injuries and games missed weren't lopsided?

Facts speak louder than opinions, no matter how loud the guy who only spouts opinions yells.

Stats matter. but yeah...I'm the one NOT paying attention... lol.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Lol...

You know what? I did the work @Ed O was too lazy to do. I'm a believer when you come with an opinion, and you want that opinion to sell, it should be backed up with facts. Not for someone else to have to prove the opinion wrong. Its one thing to say "you know, I think this, but I don't have anything to base it off of, Its just my opinion." That's respectable. But to say pay attention to what's happening and not provide stats to back it up? seriously?

Laughable.

Anyhow. Taking the top 6 guys from the beginning of the season from a few teams, these are the games played...

Blazers - 315 total games
Dame - 58
Simons - 62
Grant - 63
Nurk - 52
Hart - 51
Winslow - 29

Celtics - 391 total games
Tatom - 70
Brown - 64
Brogdon - 63
White - 76
Smart - 58
Horford - 60

Nuggets -395 total games
Jokic - 67
Murray - 61
Porter - 58
gordon - 63
Pope - 72
Brown - 74

Bucks - 362 total games
Giannis - 60
Holiday - 63
Lopez - 74
Middleton - 30
Portis - 65
Allen - 70

so of these other top tear teams that everyone wants us to be competitive with, we missed almost 30 games combined compared to the Bucks, and almost 80 more games than the Celtics and The Nuggets.
Now does anyone want to say injuries and games missed weren't lopsided?

Facts speak louder than opinions, no matter how loud the guy who only spouts opinions yells.

Stats matter. but yeah...I'm the one NOT paying attention... lol.

Nice cherrypicking of stats to support your position. You include Winslow who is 11th on the Blazers this year in scoring, and Hart who was traded away.

Yet Sharpe who's played the second most games of anybody on these 4 teams after the Celtics White is excluded.

Are you going to add back Hart's games he played for the Knicks?

The Blazers played a consistent day 1 starting lineup of Dame, Simons, Hart, Grant and Nurk which was very mediocre. If it was healthy the whole season maybe they make the playin, but it wasn't a winning team. I don't see what type of argument you are trying to make.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Nice cherrypicking of stats to support your position. You include Winslow who is 11th on the Blazers this year in scoring, and Hart who was traded away. Yet Sharpe who's played more than anybody on these 4 teams is excluded.

Cherry picking? Are you claiming Winslow wasn't to a major part of the rotation until he got hurt? Are you claiming sharpe was playing more than Winslow at the beginning of the season?

come on man….

i included middleton and his low number games played too.
Its pretty apperant who has been paying Attention and who hasnt.
But just to be sure, lets take a look shall we?

Game one vs sac:
Winslow - 26:18 minutes played
Sharpe - 16:18

game two vs pho
Winslow - 23:54
Sharpe - 11:57

game three vs
Winslow - 25:06
Sharpe - 16:16

i could go on but it would be a waste of my time. Stats are showing i didnt cherry pick anything.
Winslow was a major rotation player to start the season. Sharpe was not.
Facts matter…
The only thing i will say that may factor in is i should up Harts games to include the ones he played in ny. So add another 15 games?

were still waaayyy behind the leagues best.
No cherry picking going on. Just facts that do not support the narrative being opinionated here.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Nice cherrypicking of stats to support your position. You include Winslow who is 11th on the Blazers this year in scoring, and Hart who was traded away.

Yet Sharpe who's played the second most games of anybody on these 4 teams after the Celtics White is excluded.

Are you going to add back Hart's games he played for the Knicks?

The Blazers played a consistent day 1 starting lineup of Dame, Simons, Hart, Grant and Nurk which was very mediocre. If it was healthy the whole season maybe they make the playin, but it wasn't a winning team. I don't see what type of argument you are trying to make.

I would like to add that starting linup, admittedly flawed, went 10-4 to start the season…
From day one they were rockin. Not mediocre as you claim. Record proves otherwise.

Game one win against sacramento(the current third seed) on the road.

Game two win against pho

Game three win against the lakers on the road

Game four win against Denver

Game five loss to Miami

Game six win against Houston

Game seven loss to memphis

Game eight win at pho

Game nine loss at pho

game 10 win at Miami

game 11 win at charlotte

game 12 win at NO

game 13 loss at Dallas

game 14 win against SA


Thats better than mediocre to me.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I would like to add that starting linup, admittedly flawed, went 10-4 to start the season…
From day one they were rockin. Not mediocre as you claim. Record proves otherwise.

Game one win against sacramento(the current third seed) on the road.

Game two win against pho

Game three win against the lakers on the road

Game four win against Denver

Game five loss to Miami

Game six win against Houston

Game seven loss to memphis

Game eight win at pho

Game nine loss at pho

game 10 win at Miami

game 11 win at charlotte

game 12 win at NO

game 13 loss at Dallas

game 14 win against SA


Thats better than mediocre to me.

Then games 15-20 they lost.

They were almost as good as last seasons 4-0 group after the Clippers/Pelicans trades.

Both are small sample sizes. If you think these stretches are evidence of positive long term potential of such groups good for you. I look at their performance over the season and for the individuals careers and am conversely not impressed.

Blazers had what a 13 game win streak with James Jones, Outlaw and Webster. It was fun, but similarly, I never thought any of these groups were the beginning of constructing a contender.

 

[Tince]

I wonder how many people change their mind on what's actually happened on and off the court.

As for me:

• I was in favor of trading Dame before this season. I thought we were going to be mediocre again, and struggle to get into the playoffs. I thought that if we made it, we could advance a round (or maybe two!) because Dame and Simons are such good scorers that we could sneak up on teams.
• I am still in favor of trading Dame. We were mediocre this year and missed the playoffs again. Dame is a year older and closer to his massive extension, but he's also a super-awesome player and should bring good value back in trade.

Some of you all:

• Some people were opposed to trading Dame before this season. They either thought we could challenge for HCA and/or they thought we'd make a trade that would somehow balance the roster and make us more competitive.
• Some people are still opposed to trading Dame. We did not challenge for HCA and/or make a trade that somehow balanced the roster and made us more competitive.

Some others:

• Some people were opposed to trading Dame before this season. They don't care about winning as much as they care about his commitment to the city and the franchise and that he's fun to watch on any given night.

The latter group... that's cool. I get it. I don't have the same values as a fan as those people, but I get it.

The former group... it's insanity to me. It's like this year didn't happen, and the same arguments and sentiments are being expressed that were last offseason. Some of these folks would have traded the pick that became Sharpe, and/or they thought Grant would be a difference-maker. They had faith that Cronin's "work in progress" statements about building a winner with Dame had any substance. It didn't make much sense last summer, and it makes even less sense now that a whole season of real world evidence disproves it.

I'm still not in favor of trading Dame for a discount. So unless we can get equal or greater value in return, the idea that this organization is in a place to properly handle young talent or future draft picks and turn them into someting near what we have with Dame is beyond wishful thinking.

I really don't understand those who have little confidence in Cronin/Billups, but are down with trading Dame for future picks.

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm still not in favor of trading Dame for a discount. So unless we can get equal or greater value in return, the idea that this organization is in a place to properly handle young talent or future draft picks and turn them into someting near what we have with Dame is beyond wishful thinking.

I really don't understand those who have little confidence in Cronin/Billups, but are down with trading Dame for future picks.

I think I have pretty much said for the past year or so that I don't trust Cronin/this ownership group to handle something as monumentally important as trading Dame.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Then games 15-20 they lost.

They were almost as good as last seasons 4-0 group after the Clippers/Pelicans trades.

Both are small sample sizes. If you think these stretches are evidence of positive long term potential of such groups good for you. I look at their performance over the season and for the individuals careers and am conversely not impressed.

Blazers had what a 13 game win streak with James Jones, Outlaw and Webster. It was fun, but similarly, I never thought any of these groups were the beginning of constructing a contender.

You said from day one. Now you are changing the goal posts.
From Day one they looked good but most believed we still needed a larger starting three. Most thought that moving josh to the bench snd upgrading that position and possibly Nurk, would put us in contender status. Go back and read the threads from the beginning of the season.
But from day one they did not look, nor did most people think, this team was mediocre.

 

[CJ_is_Gone]

Lol...

You know what? I did the work @Ed O was too lazy to do. I'm a believer when you come with an opinion, and you want that opinion to sell, it should be backed up with facts. Not for someone else to have to prove the opinion wrong. Its one thing to say "you know, I think this, but I don't have anything to base it off of, Its just my opinion." That's respectable. But to say pay attention to what's happening and not provide stats to back it up? seriously?

Laughable.

Anyhow. Taking the top 6 guys from the beginning of the season from a few teams, these are the games played...

Blazers - 315 total games
Dame - 58
Simons - 62
Grant - 63
Nurk - 52
Hart - 51
Winslow - 29

Celtics - 391 total games
Tatom - 70
Brown - 64
Brogdon - 63
White - 76
Smart - 58
Horford - 60

Nuggets -395 total games
Jokic - 67
Murray - 61
Porter - 58
gordon - 63
Pope - 72
Brown - 74

Bucks - 362 total games
Giannis - 60
Holiday - 63
Lopez - 74
Middleton - 30
Portis - 65
Allen - 70

so of these other top tear teams that everyone wants us to be competitive with, we missed almost 30 games combined compared to the Bucks, and almost 80 more games than the Celtics and The Nuggets.
Now does anyone want to say injuries and games missed weren't lopsided?

Facts speak louder than opinions, no matter how loud the guy who only spouts opinions yells.

Stats matter. but yeah...I'm the one NOT paying attention... lol.

Thanks for running the numbers... This is not really an apples to apples comparison though.

1) Blazers have been tanking for a couple of weeks now. IMO, ever since Grant has been out. The analysis needs to be adjusted for that.
2) If you include Hart in the evaluation, then we need to include his replacements (Reddish/Thybulle) or else just provide the analysis only to the trade deadline. I think the beginning of the year to Trade Deadline would be most telling.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Thanks for running the numbers... This is not really an apples to apples comparison though.

1) Blazers have been tanking for a couple of weeks now. IMO, ever since Grant has been out. The analysis needs to be adjusted for that.
2) If you include Hart in the evaluation, then we need to include his replacements (Reddish/Thybulle) or else just provide the analysis only to the trade deadline. I think the beginning of the year to Trade Deadline would be most telling.

I agree however it was really difficult to figure out the trade deadline or allstar break point of the games the individuals played because it doesn't list dates of individual players.
However i believe those numbers would skew more in my favor than the opposite.
I would say the best barometer would be based on all of the games up until we went 3-10 post all star break. We were trying to win until after those 13 games. After that we went full tank. So i don't think there are that many games included that shouldn't be.
Since the two arguing against me didn't want to provide any stats whatsoever, I wasn't as compelled to polish every detail. The rough numbers validated my opinion and nullified theres.
But i did amend the Hart and said even if adding a other 15 games or so we are still way lower than the top tier teams. I bet if i ran Sacramento, they would top all these teams listed for starter games played.
I just find it funny the ones saying im not paying attention will not provide stats to back up their opinions.

 

[STOMP]

You said from day one. Now you are changing the goal posts.
From Day one they looked good but most believed we still needed a larger starting three. Most thought that moving josh to the bench snd upgrading that position and possibly Nurk, would put us in contender status. Go back and read the threads from the beginning of the season.
But from day one they did not look, nor did most people think, this team was mediocre.

Having posted in this group for 20+ years there are some takeaways inclucing that the most prolific offseason posters are consistently proven to be way too optimistic about Portland's chances. That said, this past offseason there were many posters who said this team was no where in the vacinity of contending. Of course they were shouted down by the overly optimistic crowd as per usual. Most of those offseason threads were finished with... We Shall See sentiments which we now have.

But there were endless threads about Ant and Dame being too small a backcourt combo to contend, how does that slip your mind? On top of that Hart was the smallest starting SF in the league... and they had no bench. Hell, I advocated letting Nurk walk unless he signed a greatly reduced contract as he's been consistenly underwhelming. I think he should be 30 pounds lighter to keep up. I did like the Thybulle addition and have hopes for Shaedon developing, but still think they are many players away from contending though winning the lotto would change that calculus.

This coming offseason look for it to be silly season on the board again. Don't believe everything you read.

STOMP

 

[THE HCP]

Having posted in this group for 20+ years there are some takeaways inclucing that the most prolific offseason posters are consistently proven to be way too optimistic about Portland's chances. That said, this past offseason there were many posters who said this team was no where in the vacinity of contending. Of course they were shouted down by the overly optimistic crowd as per usual. Most of those offseason threads were finished with... We Shall See sentiments which we now have.

But there were endless threads about Ant and Dame being too small a backcourt combo to contend, how does that slip your mind? On top of that Hart was the smallest starting SF in the league... and they had no bench. Hell, I advocated letting Nurk walk unless he signed a greatly reduced contract as he's been consistenly underwhelming. I think he should be 30 pounds lighter to keep up. I did like the Thybulle addition and have hopes for Shaedon developing, but still think they are many players away from contending though winning the lotto would change that calculus.

This coming offseason look for it to be silly season on the board again. Don't believe everything you read.

STOMP

#QualityPostAlert

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Having posted in this group for 20+ years there are some takeaways inclucing that the most prolific offseason posters are consistently proven to be way too optimistic about Portland's chances. That said, this past offseason there were many posters who said this team was no where in the vacinity of contending. Of course they were shouted down by the overly optimistic crowd as per usual. Most of those offseason threads were finished with... We Shall See sentiments which we now have.

But there were endless threads about Ant and Dame being too small a backcourt combo to contend, how does that slip your mind? On top of that Hart was the smallest starting SF in the league... and they had no bench. Hell, I advocated letting Nurk walk unless he signed a greatly reduced contract as he's been consistenly underwhelming. I think he should be 30 pounds lighter to keep up. I did like the Thybulle addition and have hopes for Shaedon developing, but still think they are many players away from contending though winning the lotto would change that calculus.

This coming offseason look for it to be silly season on the board again. Don't believe everything you read.

STOMP

I get ya. I was more so referring to from day one of the season Nd how we started out the gate and how people were talking potential top four seed. Not everyone for sure. But i remember that sentiment being tossed around. Hell, i bought in for a while.
I know the offseason most didn't think Grant was a difference maker to make us a contender, but i thought that mood shifted considerably early on with his white hot start?

Anyhow, contender or not, i do believe injuries played a decent roll in our underachievement this year. I think the games played from our main contributors compared to other teams backs that opinion up.

 

[AngryFan]

“Hell, I bought in for a while.”

You’re obviously still “bought in” considering you still think a 10-4 start means something.

 

[julius]

This coming offseason look for it to be silly season on the board again. Don't believe everything you read.

STOMP

I struggle with the weird optimism of people thinking they'll be able to make a major trade this off season, or that they can trade for a disgruntled superstar. Afterall, everyone wants to play with Damian!

I'm cynical about the chances of the team improving outside of just mundane trades, pick in the draft or a MLE type free-agent signing.

My only hope is for them to get the #1 pick, hopefully karma is kind to the franchise. But I'm fully expecting them to get the worst possible pick, and then because it's the worst possible pick it'll be outside of the window of players that could be a star and thus won't be worth diddily squat.

And then the team won't be able to make any kind of trade, and either A: they'll realize that trading Damian is probably the best case scenario (in this version of reality) or B: they'll act like the player they drafted was exactly who they wanted.

And next year will be another year of "meh" with the occasional Sharpe highlights, constant bitching about Billups coaching, the mythical trades that aren't based in reality and then another lotto pick.


ooh boy am I fun at parties.

 

[wizenheimer]

I struggle with the weird optimism of people thinking they'll be able to make a major trade this off season, or that they can trade for a disgruntled superstar. Afterall, everyone wants to play with Damian!

I'm cynical about the chances of the team improving outside of just mundane trades, pick in the draft or a MLE type free-agent signing.

My only hope is for them to get the #1 pick, hopefully karma is kind to the franchise. But I'm fully expecting them to get the worst possible pick, and then because it's the worst possible pick it'll be outside of the window of players that could be a star and thus won't be worth diddily squat.

And then the team won't be able to make any kind of trade, and either A: they'll realize that trading Damian is probably the best case scenario (in this version of reality) or B: they'll act like the player they drafted was exactly who they wanted.

And next year will be another year of "meh" with the occasional Sharpe highlights, constant bitching about Billups coaching, the mythical trades that aren't based in reality and then another lotto pick.


ooh boy am I fun at parties.

a decade of management malpractice has consequences

 

[Whyachi]

If Lillard stays, we might see more diversity in his game next season. The Blazers are admired by the 20ppg triple combo. Dame, Ant Grant are crushing it on fantasy teams. Blazers might shoot for another scorer at the SF or a small ball Center. Getting everyone lots of stats won't be easy, so Lillard might have to hedge towards a distribution role.

Then if the team doesn't win very many games, the current core unit can wimp out once again, and the local basketball junkies can turn up their game to feverishly discuss better trades and awesome rookies for the impending tank.

 

[Haakzilla]

 

[blazerkor]

Shit, when I listen to that I feel like Dame would be livid if Cronin puts him in a position where he has to ask for a trade. I don't blame him, I wouldn't want all of these asshole talking heads to feel like they've been right the whole time either but Dame should do what he feels is best for him and I'm sure he will, I just hope the management of our fucking team makes that easy on him.

 

[tykendo]

Shit, when I listen to that I feel like Dame would be livid if Cronin puts him in a position where he has to ask for a trade. I don't blame him, I wouldn't want all of these asshole talking heads to feel like they've been right the whole time either but Dame should do what he feels is best for him and I'm sure he will, I just hope the management of our fucking team makes that easy on him.

The pressure is on Joe & his staff to get it done. Some luck in the Lottery & Free Agency will obviously help. I think there will be some potential nice trade possibilities after the playoffs, and teams access where they're at. These talking heads are annoying. It's like, In their opinions, the Portland Trailblazers shouldn't have nice things. They can, All, eat a dick.

 

[tykendo]

It's like that Talking Heads song with "Same as it ever was" in it, as far as the National Media goes concerning our Blazers.

 

[tykendo]

My favorite Blazer EVER!

 

[blazerkor]

My favorite Blazer EVER!

As real as it gets... fucking unbelievable from a superstar at his level.

 

[blazerkor]

It's like that Talking Heads song with "Same as it ever was" in it, as far as the National Media goes concerning our Blazers.

 

[tykendo]

Thank You.