POOR HILLARY

[riverman]

All you've done is try and sell its okay to be taxed because we don't know how to spend our money right, so the government can spend it for us. The same government that has put us 18.5 trillion in debt. LOGIC

It's necessary to be taxed for services, like it or not..it's the process and government is pretty far from an entity that's working as one unit for the benefit of society..our government is in need of healing too

 

[magnifier661]

It's necessary to be taxed for services, like it or not..it's the process and government is pretty far from an entity that's working as one unit for the benefit of society..our government is in need of healing too

Bernie puts up a good fight and I believe he is sincere. What I don't believe in is the DC ESTABLISHMENT that may bring in another legislation after Bernie that reallocates the added funds into new bills. Congress has that power. They can use Bernie to hedge this allocation, so DC can spend it on Big Brother bills later. They will make you think it's good for you, but what it really does is take more of your freedom away, while take your money too. They are the biggest con artists in America

 

[Denny Crane]

Not true at all. Before, when the insurance companies were in control they wanted to charge my family $785 per month. I simply couldn't afford it. Single payer cuts what we pay currently almost in half.

They weren't in control. That's a huge misperception.

Why do you see auto insurance ads on TV where the companies are undercutting one another? Accidents are as sure to happen as expensive medical treatments.

 

[dviss1]

Wrong! The VA deserves to be able to go to any hospital they choose, instead of shit holes that don't take care of them. Giving them vouchers (As good as money) to be seen by "top notch" hospitals and caregivers is extremely patriotic. I've seen how they treated my dad

You spout and spout without doing ANY research...

VA hospitals on par with private sector for patient satisfaction:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...with-private-sector-for-patient-satisfaction/

Former military service members using Department of Veterans Affairs hospitals are just as happy with their care as patients using private medical clinics, according to a leading customer-satisfaction survey.

The American Customer Satisfaction Index for 2013 shows that the VA health network, which serves more than 8 million veterans, achieved marks equal to or better than those in the private sector.

The health system earned overall satisfaction indexes of 84 for inpatient care and 82 for outpatient services, while the U.S. hospital industry earned scores of 80 and 83 in those categories, respectively.

“Our nation’s veterans deserve the best care, and the ACSI survey results help us better understand how veterans feel about their overall care experience at the VA,” Secretary of Veterans Affairs Eric Shinseki said in a statement about the results on Wednesday. “There is always more work to do, and we are focused on continuous improvement to the care we provide.”

Jacob Gadd, the American Legion’s deputy director for health care, said the scores reflect “pride among veterans that there’s a system for them that understands their unique needs.” He also credited the VA with bolstering satisfaction levels through new initiatives such as its system of “patient-aligned care teams” that provide patients with personalized care from a group of health professionals that fit their individual needs.

Despite good news on the customer-satisfaction front, not all has been completely well with the VA health system. Last year, the House Veterans Affairs Committee held a hearing on preventable deaths at VA hospitals following a series of high-profile incidents, which officials said are not indicative of a systemic problems for the department.

The VA provided nearly 90 million outpatient visits last year, and its medical network handles about 236,000 health-care appointments each day, according to the department.

Veterans overwhelmingly expressed positive views about customer service at VA health centers, with more than 90 percent survey respondents indicating favorable opinions for inpatient and outpatient care.

Ninety-two percent of respondents said VA medical providers are highly courteous, while 91 percent said the same of appointment personnel. Additionally, more than 95 percent of the survey takers said they would use a VA medical center the next time they need care.

The VA also earned high marks last year for its National Cemetery Administration, which beat out all other federal agencies and even some top corporations with a score of 96 in the ACSI. That mark represented the highest rating for both the public and private sectors, and it placed the VA cemetery network 28 points higher than the average for all federal agencies.

 

[dviss1]

They weren't in control. That's a huge misperception.

Why do you see auto insurance ads on TV where the companies are undercutting one another? Accidents are as sure to happen as expensive medical treatments.

Because insurance companies are vultures.

 

[dviss1]

Bernie puts up a good fight and I believe he is sincere. What I don't believe in is the DC ESTABLISHMENT that may bring in another legislation after Bernie that reallocates the added funds into new bills. Congress has that power. They can use Bernie to hedge this allocation, so DC can spend it on Big Brother bills later. They will make you think it's good for you, but what it really does is take more of your freedom away, while take your money too. They are the biggest con artists in America

EVERY.

OTHER.

INDUSTRIALIZED.

NATION.

GUARANTEES.

HEALTHCARE.

FOR.

IT'S.

CITIZENS.

 

[dviss1]

They weren't in control. That's a huge misperception.

Why do you see auto insurance ads on TV where the companies are undercutting one another? Accidents are as sure to happen as expensive medical treatments.

What is a preexisting condition? It's a term used to deny care.

When you are denied care that you need the insurance company is in control. Like it or not, Obamneycare got rid of that term.

 

[magnifier661]

You spout and spout without doing ANY research...

VA hospitals on par with private sector for patient satisfaction:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...with-private-sector-for-patient-satisfaction/

Former military service members using Department of Veterans Affairs hospitals are just as happy with their care as patients using private medical clinics, according to a leading customer-satisfaction survey.

The American Customer Satisfaction Index for 2013 shows that the VA health network, which serves more than 8 million veterans, achieved marks equal to or better than those in the private sector.

The health system earned overall satisfaction indexes of 84 for inpatient care and 82 for outpatient services, while the U.S. hospital industry earned scores of 80 and 83 in those categories, respectively.

“Our nation’s veterans deserve the best care, and the ACSI survey results help us better understand how veterans feel about their overall care experience at the VA,” Secretary of Veterans Affairs Eric Shinseki said in a statement about the results on Wednesday. “There is always more work to do, and we are focused on continuous improvement to the care we provide.”

Jacob Gadd, the American Legion’s deputy director for health care, said the scores reflect “pride among veterans that there’s a system for them that understands their unique needs.” He also credited the VA with bolstering satisfaction levels through new initiatives such as its system of “patient-aligned care teams” that provide patients with personalized care from a group of health professionals that fit their individual needs.

Despite good news on the customer-satisfaction front, not all has been completely well with the VA health system. Last year, the House Veterans Affairs Committee held a hearing on preventable deaths at VA hospitals following a series of high-profile incidents, which officials said are not indicative of a systemic problems for the department.

The VA provided nearly 90 million outpatient visits last year, and its medical network handles about 236,000 health-care appointments each day, according to the department.

Veterans overwhelmingly expressed positive views about customer service at VA health centers, with more than 90 percent survey respondents indicating favorable opinions for inpatient and outpatient care.

Ninety-two percent of respondents said VA medical providers are highly courteous, while 91 percent said the same of appointment personnel. Additionally, more than 95 percent of the survey takers said they would use a VA medical center the next time they need care.

The VA also earned high marks last year for its National Cemetery Administration, which beat out all other federal agencies and even some top corporations with a score of 96 in the ACSI. That mark represented the highest rating for both the public and private sectors, and it placed the VA cemetery network 28 points higher than the average for all federal agencies.

How much does Champus, which is the insurance for veterans, pay? It's a simple question.... I don't need to look at any of these articles, because the facts are facts.

http://www.va.gov/PURCHASEDCARE/docs/pubfiles/factsheets/FactSheet_01-11.pdf

So right now, they pay 75% of any major costs. So if you require something that costs 200k, how much do the vets have to pay?

 

[magnifier661]

Because insurance companies are vultures.

This only proves how the DC establishment has screwed us. Big Pharma, Big Oil, Big banks run this country. We elect our congress to fight these companies. Make them accountable, that's what they are elected to do. Punishing the citizens by taxing them and deciding what they use doesn't solve shit. Those entities still own congress and they will still feed their pockets on your dime. But now, you have no say.... LOGIC

 

[dviss1]

This only proves how the DC establishment has screwed us. Big Pharma, Big Oil, Big banks run this country. We elect our congress to fight these companies. Make them accountable, that's what they are elected to do. Punishing the citizens by taxing them and deciding what they use doesn't solve shit. Those entities still own congress and they will still feed their pockets on your dime. But now, you have no say.... LOGIC

You've just made the case for single payer.

 

[dviss1]

How much does Champus, which is the insurance for veterans, pay? It's a simple question.... I don't need to look at any of these articles, because the facts are facts.

http://www.va.gov/PURCHASEDCARE/docs/pubfiles/factsheets/FactSheet_01-11.pdf

So right now, they pay 75% of any major costs. So if you require something that costs 200k, how much do the vets have to pay?

Veterans don't need that. They can just go to the VA for regular care. That's another bullshit private program. Why wouldn't you read the article? Because there are too many facts in it and it doesn't prove the point you're trying to make?

 

[magnifier661]

You've just made the case for single payer.

No it won't, since the government would make these choices.

 

[magnifier661]

Veterans don't need that. They can just go to the VA for regular care. That's another bullshit private program. Why wouldn't you read the article? Because there are too many facts in it and it doesn't prove the point you're trying to make?

And emergency cases where someone must be treated in a public hospital that are 60 miles away from the nearest VA hospital?

 

[dviss1]

What is CHAMPVA?
CHAMPVA (the Civilian Health and Medical Program of the Department of Veterans Affairs) is a federal health benefits program administered by the Department of Veterans Affairs.

Is this even for vets? After reading that it sounds like its for civilians... Vets get VA care and do not have to pay.

 

[dviss1]

You keep pushing that notion but it's completely untrue. The government won't be making any decisions on where you get care.

 

[magnifier661]

What is CHAMPVA?
CHAMPVA (the Civilian Health and Medical Program of the Department of Veterans Affairs) is a federal health benefits program administered by the Department of Veterans Affairs.

Is this even for vets? After reading that it sounds like its for civilians... Vets get VA care and do not have to pay.

LOL! Keyword "Civilian". Meaning civilian doctors, not VA doctors. They are still the vets that receive this benefit

 

[dviss1]

LOL! Keyword "Civilian". Meaning civilian doctors, not VA doctors. They are still the vets that receive this benefit

Hell, I've never heard of it. I was merely asking a question.

 

[magnifier661]

You keep pushing that notion but it's completely untrue. The government won't be making any decisions on where you get care.

Link? Everything I've read has Bernie explaining that the government will negotiate all deals and make it available as a GRAND HEALTHCARE SYSTEM. Show me where the people get to choose and negotiate their deals.

 

[dviss1]

Link? Everything I've read has Bernie explaining that the government will negotiate all deals and make it available as a GRAND HEALTHCARE SYSTEM. Show me where the people get to choose and negotiate their deals.

What do you mean negotiate deals? All doctors would be paid by the government. There are no deals to negotiate exept:

Drug prices from Big Pharma. They hate that because it means they need to reprice their drugs and my son's inhaler would no longer be $137.87.

 

[magnifier661]

What do you mean negotiate deals? All doctors would be paid by the government. There are no deals to negotiate exept:

Drug prices from Big Pharma. They hate that because it means they need to reprice their drugs and my son's inhaler would no longer be $137.87.

Well shit man! I didn't know we have the kremlin politics?!?!?!

You will be our doctor and you get paid THIS MUCH! Refusal and we will SQUASH you! NO DEAL! ONLY OUR DEAL!

 

[dviss1]

Then make deals with insurance companies, give them vouchers, whatever... But you let the people decide on what insurance they want. We aren't communist!

What is a Voucher Plan? What’s Wrong With It?
A Voucher Plan is a version of health reform that seeks to provide a simplified means for individuals to purchase health insurance, while retaining the private insurance system intact. The principal advocates of this plan are Ezekiel Emanuel, a bioethicist now serving as one of President Obama’s principal advisors on health care reform, and Victor Fuchs, a retired economist from Stanford University. Under this plan, individuals would be given a health care certificate, an insurance “voucher,” which would entitle them to enroll in a private health plan of their choice. Employer-based insurance would be eliminated. The vouchers would, under the Emanuel-Fuchs plan, be paid for through a value-added tax (VAT), essentially a sales tax on all manufactured goods and services. This is a highly regressive way of financing such a plan, since low-income people spend a much larger percentage of their income on purchases of goods and services than do higher-income people. However, the main problem with such a plan is that it leaves the wasteful, inefficient, and inequitable private insurance system in place, with no change at all in its operation. It simply makes it easier for us to purchase their defective product.

 

[dviss1]

Well shit man! I didn't know we have the kremlin politics?!?!?!

You will be our doctor and you get paid THIS MUCH! Refusal and we will SQUASH you! NO DEAL! ONLY OUR DEAL!

You didn't read.....

Under single payer, won't physician incomes go down?
Not necessarily. Canadian physicians have done well under their single payer system - as documented in a recent, careful study. In addition, streamlined billing under single payer would save US doctors vast amounts in overhead, and free up additional physician time to see a few more patients. Hence, even if doctors' gross incomes declined slightly (a questionable assumption if they're freed up from insurance paperwork and able to devote more time to patient care) physicians' average take home incomes wouldn't change under single payer. Of course, some doctors' incomes would go down - e.g. those who currently enjoy a particularly rich payer mix. On the other hand, some would see an increase - e.g. those currently caring for many Medicaid or uninsured patients.

 

[dviss1]

Mags...

You are completely uninformed about Single Payer and have obviously drunk some right wing kool-aid on the subject.
Please educate yourself on it. I'm done debating you on a subject that you don't know much about.

Again read the FAQ:

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single-payer-faq

 

[dviss1]

Mags...

You are completely uninformed about Single Payer and have obviously drunk some right wing kool-aid on the subject.
Please educate yourself on it. I'm done debating you on a subject that you don't know much about.

Again read the FAQ:

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single-payer-faq

And just so you know @magnifier661 , I've been on the front lines of this debate since 08'-09'. My Ex wife and son have "preexisting conditions". I've been fighting this battle for awhile and am very versed on Single Payer. Please get educated on what it is.

Is national health insurance ‘socialized medicine’?
No. Socialized medicine is a system in which doctors and hospitals work for and draw salaries from the government. Doctors in the Veterans Administration and the Armed Services are paid this way. The health systems in Great Britain and Spain are other examples. But in most European countries, Canada, Australia and Japan they have socialized health insurance, not socialized medicine. The government pays for care that is delivered in the private (mostly not-for-profit) sector. This is similar to how Medicare works in this country. Doctors are in private practice and are paid on a fee-for-service basis from government funds. The government does not own or manage medical practices or hospitals.

The term socialized medicine is often used to conjure up images of government bureaucratic interference in medical care. That does not describe what happens in countries with national health insurance where doctors and patients often have more clinical freedom than in theU.S., where bureaucrats attempt to direct care.

 

[magnifier661]

You didn't read.....

Under single payer, won't physician incomes go down?
Not necessarily. Canadian physicians have done well under their single payer system - as documented in a recent, careful study. In addition, streamlined billing under single payer would save US doctors vast amounts in overhead, and free up additional physician time to see a few more patients. Hence, even if doctors' gross incomes declined slightly (a questionable assumption if they're freed up from insurance paperwork and able to devote more time to patient care) physicians' average take home incomes wouldn't change under single payer. Of course, some doctors' incomes would go down - e.g. those who currently enjoy a particularly rich payer mix. On the other hand, some would see an increase - e.g. those currently caring for many Medicaid or uninsured patients.

Dude, someone or something will have to agree to whatever terms are used. Their isn't a number that appears out of thin air. The wage is set by the management that regulates it, the government. They will negotiate among themselves for what wage is acceptable and lay it out. The Doctor or whomever can decide to work for that wage. In the end, it's whatever the government decides.

Look bro, obviously you aren't getting it and you will defend this to the end. The reality is the government has total control over all healthcare. That is a government regulation that takes away all decisions from the people that pay it (the tax payer). End of story.

If you are for it, then good for you. I don't accept living in a communist country where my government dictates what I buy or how I buy it.

 

[barfo]

Dude, someone or something will have to agree to whatever terms are used. Their isn't a number that appears out of thin air. The wage is set by the management that regulates it, the government. They will negotiate among themselves for what wage is acceptable and lay it out. The Doctor or whomever can decide to work for that wage. In the end, it's whatever the government decides.

Look bro, obviously you aren't getting it and you will defend this to the end. The reality is the government has total control over all healthcare. That is a government regulation that takes away all decisions from the people that pay it (the tax payer). End of story.

If you are for it, then good for you. I don't accept living in a communist country where my government dictates what I buy or how I buy it.

No Mags. You can still take your excess cash and spend it on private healthcare services, if you don't like what you get for your tax dollars. Just like you could hire a private security force if you didn't think the cops were doing a good enough job protecting your property.

barfo

 

[magnifier661]

No Mags. You can still take your excess cash and spend it on private healthcare services, if you don't like what you get for your tax dollars. Just like you could hire a private security force if you didn't think the cops were doing a good enough job protecting your property.

barfo

So you pay the tax, then use your disposable for the ones you really want? Lol sounds fair

 

[Denny Crane]

Because insurance companies are vultures.

Your answer is rather knee jerk and makes no sense.

If they compete for your auto insurance and the rates go down, then they should compete for your health insurance and the rates go down.

Distort the market and there's no competition and WE lose.

 

[Denny Crane]

What is a preexisting condition? It's a term used to deny care.

When you are denied care that you need the insurance company is in control. Like it or not, Obamneycare got rid of that term.

Preexisting condition is a side effect of distorted markets.

When the government pays for things, people (doctors, hospitals) charge $800 for a hammer and $2500 for a toilet seat.

If the government were out of health care, the cost of things would be much lower and preexisting conditions would be factored into the actuarial tables.

Nobody's stopping the government from selling insurance and competing (instead of CONTROLLING) or building hospitals and hiring doctors and buying medicine and directly providing actual health care.

 

[barfo]

So you pay the tax, then use your disposable for the ones you really want? Lol sounds fair

Maybe. It's the same way we do it for lots of things. If you want to send your spawn to private schools, for example, you still have to pay the tax that supports the public schools.

If you want something different than what everyone gets by default, then you have to pay extra for it. Yes, seems fair.

barfo