Pope Francis says atheists can go to heaven (1 Viewer)

[barfo]

Trump for Pope 2016! Make Catholicism Great Again!

barfo

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Do you believe in aliens?

I don't believe in aliens, I think they could exist.

As crowtrobot says, there is a difference between belief and knowledge. Technically, I could be called an agnostic atheist because I do not believe in a god and I also do not claim to know that there is no god.

This video explains my position:

 

[crowTrobot]

Do they?

Do they what? Hopefully you're not suggesting all terrorists are secretly going against their conscience. At least some have to be actually convinced that they are doing the will of God.

Point was the notion that following your conscience is the most important thing you can do (to earn salvation) is just the ultimate form of moral relativism, and moral relativism isn't exactly compatible with anything resembling Catholicism.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

of course...that's called being an agnostic...sort of leaving open possibilities or even considering we may not have the tools to prove it anyway..the question is more interesting to me than the definition of god worship or devil worship or whatever you dwell on in your own spirit. If you want respect for your beliefs, you should return the courtesy

Are you saying I am disrespecting you in some way? I'm not meaning to.

 

[MarAzul]

How does he know Jihadists aren't following their conscience? They certainly seem pretty sincere to me.

I think you might be on to something.

 

[MarAzul]

Do you believe in aliens?

No! I am willing to lay $10 on it.

 

[MarAzul]

There's no legitimate evidence that there is a god though, so there's no need for evidence that there isn't one.

Well why then insist you know? If you have no evidence, what the heck do you know?

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Well why then insist you know? If you have no evidence, what the heck do you know?

... I don't insist I know. Just like I don't insist I know Zues and Odin don't exist. Or fairies and leprechauns.

 

[Haakzilla]

...damage control for the Spotlight movie

 

[Denny Crane]

Do they what? Hopefully you're not suggesting all terrorists are secretly going against their conscience. At least some have to be actually convinced that they are doing the will of God.

Point was the notion that following your conscience is the most important thing you can do (to earn salvation) is just the ultimate form of moral relativism, and moral relativism isn't exactly compatible with anything resembling Catholicism.

I think at least some, but hardly the majority.

From what i've seen, Bin Laden was a nationalist - fought the Russkies in Afghanistan after invasion, then needed something else to fight. ISIS is mostly Sunnis who were our allies during the surge, but who joined with ISIS to regain power after we left Iraq.

Some Jihadists are duped into the religion thing, but it sure looks to me like the religion thing is a means to control the masses, not the end of the cause.

 

[crowTrobot]

I don't believe in aliens, I think they could exist.

But do you think Yahweh could exist? I assume you think that's pretty damn improbable.

In my estimation most people that call themselves combo atheist/agnostic aren't really just "belief lackers" when the actually relevant questions are on the table.

 

[riverman]

Are you saying I am disrespecting you in some way? I'm not meaning to.

you basically said to everyone that claiming to be an agnostic was a copout...I'm an agnostic..that's about it...I told you why I identify with that term

 

[VanillaGorilla]

you basically said to everyone that claiming to be an agnostic was a copout...I'm an agnostic..that's about it...I told you why I identify with that term

I was just saying I think calling yourself an agnostic is avoiding the real question, I didn't intend any offense. But if you don't want to discuss it any more that's fine.

 

[MarAzul]

masses

And if this mass is following their conscience, that spells trouble for those that have been fingered as the source of evil.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

But do you think Yahweh could exist? I assume you think that's pretty damn improbable.

In my estimation most people that call themselves combo atheist/agnostic aren't really just "belief lackers" when the actually relevant questions are on the table.

You assume correctly, but the term atheist doesn't specifically mean Yahweh.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

I choose to believe there is a God for reasons of my own. I don't need to prove or to have proof. And in the end I choose to try and live as God expects us all to, hard as it is sometimes. Because if there really is a God when the lights go out, I don't want to be caught with my pants around my ankles......

 

[MarAzul]

I know Zues and Odin don't exist

But you don't know these things if you have no evidence. Only God can be known and his works without evidence. You also have a good clue God is here, no man can do what God does.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

But you don't know these things if you have no evidence. Only God can be known and his works without evidence. You also have a good clue God is here, no man can do what God does.

I just said I don't know them.. I also don't know what you're going on about.

 

[riverman]

I choose to believe there is a God for reasons of my own. I don't need to prove or to have proof. And in the end I choose to try and live as God expects us all to, hard as it is sometimes. Because if there really is a God when the lights go out, I don't want to be caught with my pants around my ankles......

when the lights go out..who needs pants?

 

[MarAzul]

I also don't know

I will count this as success for the day.

 

[crowTrobot]

I think at least some, but hardly the majority.

The number doesn't matter. If the Pope is saying that your conscience is your guide to heaven that deconstructs to moral relativism.

I'm assuming the Pope's meaning actually was that atheists can still get into heaven if they are "good" people (good meaning following some sort of non-malevolent standard of morality).

 

[crowTrobot]

when the lights go out..who needs pants?

Eskimos

 

[riverman]

I love questions about life...I have leaned toward the Taoist school of thought and chosen to believe in reincarnation because I think it's more interesting than the alternative. Lao Tse didn't want religion or followers..he looked at god as an inclusive concept instead of a deity...to the Taoist monk..it's all connected and the idea is to not disturb the flow or chi of our experience. The idea of a supreme being with a reward for dying if you've followed the rules pretty much creeps me out.

 

[MarAzul]

The number doesn't matter. If the Pope is saying that your conscience is your guide to heaven that deconstructs to moral relativism.

I'm assuming the Pope's meaning actually was that atheists can still get into heaven if they are "good" people (good meaning following some sort of non-malevolent standard of morality).

I think the error would be, extending the idea of human Goodness to anyone outside the influence of society based on Christian values.
When you deal with Muslims you will find this is an error. They only have this Conscience goodness for their brothers, while all other are fair game, or Kaffirs.

 

[crowTrobot]

I have leaned toward the Taoist school of thought and chosen to believe in reincarnation because I think it's more interesting than the alternative.

Statements like this always seem so bizarre to me. Me being a billionaire is more interesting than the alternative, but I don't really have the choice to genuinely believe that I am one. I can only think that I am one through self-delusion.

The statement "chosen to believe in reincarnation because it's more interesting" similarly equates to willful self-delusion.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

They only have this Conscience goodness for their brothers, while all other are fair game, or Kaffirs.

Wow dude, just wow.

 

[Denny Crane]

And if this mass is following their conscience, that spells trouble for those that have been fingered as the source of evil.

Sheep.

 

[crowTrobot]

I think the error would be, extending the idea of human Goodness to anyone outside the influence of society based on Christian values.
When you deal with Muslims you will find this is an error. They only have this Conscience goodness for their brothers, while all other are fair game, or Kaffirs.

Yeah as a generalization that's obviously false, and it's also completely irrelevant to my point.

Which was, according to the Pope even if they don't believe in them Atheists still have requirements to get into heaven.

 

[Denny Crane]

Do they what? Hopefully you're not suggesting all terrorists are secretly going against their conscience. At least some have to be actually convinced that they are doing the will of God.

Point was the notion that following your conscience is the most important thing you can do (to earn salvation) is just the ultimate form of moral relativism, and moral relativism isn't exactly compatible with anything resembling Catholicism.

The number doesn't matter. If the Pope is saying that your conscience is your guide to heaven that deconstructs to moral relativism.

I'm assuming the Pope's meaning actually was that atheists can still get into heaven if they are "good" people (good meaning following some sort of non-malevolent standard of morality).

The number does matter. All is not the same thing as all minus 1.

You suggested they all (terrorists) follow their religious conscience.

It seems to me the leaders aren't going to be strapping on explosives and blowing up a pizza parlor.

 

[MarAzul]

Wow sir! just wow.

Speak with one holding a kaffir you have have been sent to retrieve. It is very educational.