Pope Francis says atheists can go to heaven

[SlyPokerDog]

You heathens know there is a basketball game on right?

 

[Denny Crane]

He implied violence/causing suffering is immoral regardless of state of conscience.

Don't we atheists believe violence/causing suffering is immoral?

 

[riverman]

I didn't say that, and all the specifics you are referencing are irrelevant.

I'm just making the point that you are effectively stating that your beliefs about reality are based in nothing but wishful thinking. The fact that something is more interesting to you is not evidence that it is true.

I could give you some evidence that supports it but I really have no interest in debating the relevance...thinking...positive thinking...it's not Santa Claus expectations..you need to put my views in a different perspective. I' ll leave you to your own, whatever those are. If you think a black hole of existance is the end all of this chapter of your life...what makes that more relevant than my interest is how you've chosen to justify it. Whatever gives you joy...it's your experience. My curiousities about the possibilities of life after death are no more far fetched than yours. You just choose to believe yours and call mine foolish. That's fine, but arrogant

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Fez is relieved.

 

[crowTrobot]

Don't we atheists believe violence/causing suffering is immoral?

It's not a requirement

 

[Denny Crane]

It's not a requirement

I'm pretty sure it cuts across the population, regardless of religion.

The pope is supposed to be a moral authority. Granted, morality is beyond religion.

I'm not seeing this hypocrisy you suggest. His statements about ISIS agree with church dogma and secular belief.

 

[crowTrobot]

I'm not seeing this hypocrisy you suggest.

It's just a logical contradiction between statements, not hypocrisy. The contradiction is his implications that atheists can get into heaven if they are following their conscience, but only if their behavior conforms to a moral standard that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with conscience.

The roll of conscience can't be simultaneously important and irrelevant.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Heaven is a half-pipe.

 

[HailBlazers]

Heaven is a half-pipe.

PF is smoking one.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Lots of heavy discussion here.

Really, it comes to this: the pope hopes the supreme being has a sense of humor.

 

[santeesioux]

Cool, now we have a get out of jail free card to continue not going to church.

 

[MARIS61]

Since I'm already here in heaven, I don't think I need his blessing.

Since he fails to recognize he's already in heaven, he'll never "go there".

 

[stampedehero]

I think the Catholic church is rebuilding..they've taken some serious hits and this is sort of like legalization of marijuana...it's a popular and lucrative stance.

Riv.... The reality of priest marriage needs to be the backbone of their metamorphic change. I never accepted the idea that a Catholic priest has to give advice on marriage before people wed. . A good number have perverted pasts due to the social structure they live in due to the absence of this "sacrament"for their group .. Marriage is a social concept not a tenant of the church.. IMO

 

[Denny Crane]

It's just a logical contradiction between statements, not hypocrisy. The contradiction is his implications that atheists can get into heaven if they are following their conscience, but only if their behavior conforms to a moral standard that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with conscience.

The roll of conscience can't be simultaneously important and irrelevant.

I think it's a reach on your part. He's saying to do what's right and you get in. Even us atheists.

As I said, morality is not necessarily a religious thing, but our morality as atheists (murder is bad, robbery is bad, etc.) overlaps religious morality. From the Pope's POV, obeying your conscience and having those sorts of values is enough in common with the religious aspects that you're given a free pass.

I don't see ISIS as listening to their conscience but rather deliberately contradicting it.

I would point out the Pope was careful to avoid making it about Christianity vs. Islam. His comments were directed to the Islamic State and mirror those of most (or all) the world's leaders.

 

[crowTrobot]

I don't see ISIS as listening to their conscience but rather deliberately contradicting it.

Some presumably are, but if you mean every single individual necessarily is that's just completely naïve.

This doesn't even have to be specifically about terrorism. It's quite obvious that not every human has an inner voice that always at every point directs them towards empathy/altruism.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

You guys debate pointless shit like terrorists and the like while missing a better question. If anyone can go to heaven, can I be pope?
I don't see why not.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

You guys debate pointless shit like terrorists and the like while missing a better question. If anyone can go to heaven, can I be pope?
I don't see why not.

Short answer: No, you live in Sin City.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

You guys debate pointless shit like terrorists and the like while missing a better question. If anyone can go to heaven, can I be pope?
I don't see why not.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Short answer: No, you live in Sin City.

Technically I live in Henderson. More loopholes, yay!!!!

I'm definitely going to apply, wonder if there is an online app I can fill out. Wonder what it pays and if I can still live here.

 

[MarAzul]

You guys debate pointless shit like terrorists and the like while missing a better question. If anyone can go to heaven, can I be pope?
I don't see why not.

Sure you can. All you need to do is convince a room full of Cardinals to let you in then cajole them into believing you are the right man for the job, more than any of them.
You could be known as, Pope Silver tongue

 

[e_blazer]

You guys debate pointless shit like terrorists and the like while missing a better question. If anyone can go to heaven, can I be pope?
I don't see why not.

Uhh ... celibacy?

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Uhh ... celibacy?

You don't have to be a believer to get into heaven, why would you still have to be celibate to be Pope?

Does not compute.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Sure you can. All you need to do is convince a room full of Cardinals to let you in then cajole them into believing you are the right man for the job, more than any of them.
You could be known as, Pope Silver tongue

Well, that's too much work. Maybe they will come here and I can show them a good time. Yeah, that's the ticket.

 

[MarAzul]

View attachment 7154

I think it's a reach on your part. He's saying to do what's right and you get in. Even us atheists.

As I said, morality is not necessarily a religious thing, but our morality as atheists (murder is bad, robbery is bad, etc.) overlaps religious morality. From the Pope's POV, obeying your conscience and having those sorts of values is enough in common with the religious aspects that you're given a free pass.

I don't see ISIS as listening to their conscience but rather deliberately contradicting it.

I would point out the Pope was careful to avoid making it about Christianity vs. Islam. His comments were directed to the Islamic State and mirror those of most (or all) the world's leaders.

I think you are nearly on to it Denny. Conscience is the human functions that many think makes man in the image of our creator. However, the morality code that the conscience uses in the referee process must be learned. That comes from the religion(s) dominate in the society of the child. The child does not acquire the code directly from religion but indirectly via his society where the code is passed from generation to generation via religion. We generally do not have difficulties with other societies with different religions as the morality code is close in most religions. Jews, Hindus, Buddhist, Christians Taoist and more, all quite compatible, perhaps even complementary for those that gather from more than one. So the atheist did not invent a secular morality, he just uses the one around him and I think, the Pope was speaking to this reality. No reason to reject the atheist at the pearly gate, if he has been walking the walk, following the conscience.

That conscience is not loaded the same though when the moral code is acquired from the teachings of Mohammad. Followers of all of the above listed religions including the atheist that only indirectly acquired the code, are lessor humans in the consciousness loaded with the code acquired from Mohammad. No other religion has the exclusionary prejudice like the concept of Infidel, to be abuse, used, sold, and ransomed, even cut his head off, no one will care.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

You don't have to be a believer to get into heaven, why would you still have to be celibate to be Pope?

Does not compute.

You have to take a vow of celibacy (among others).

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

You have to take a vow of celibacy (among others).

I don't think you understand what's going on here.

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

What the fuck does he know?

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I don't think you understand what's going on here.

You're right. But that's cuz everything going on is in your head and makes no sense.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

OL' Steve pretty much sums it up as far as the God question goes....as least as far as I'm concerned.....

 

[Denny Crane]

Some presumably are, but if you mean every single individual necessarily is that's just completely naïve.

This doesn't even have to be specifically about terrorism. It's quite obvious that not every human has an inner voice that always at every point directs them towards empathy/altruism.

The Pope clearly included those who follow their conscience. He clearly meant to include terrorists.