Pope re-affirms he is a dipshit.

[crandc]

He's simply proposing that you follow the Bible - you know something a member of the clergy should probably be preaching.

You mean when it says and adulteress should be stoned to death?

Or when it talks about a disobedient child shall be put to death?

Or that mixing fibers and combining meat and dairy shall result in death?

Of course, there is plenty of genocide in the bible to justify Hitler Youth.

Fact is the pope picks and chooses. And invents. Condoms are never mentioned, neither is abortion.

As for sex, man, ever read the bible? Sex up the wazoo, all those holy men.


Some people might say saving lives is more important, than you know, cherry picking from bibles.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Do you deliberately cherry pick to draw a reaction, or is that the view of the Bible (capital B) as you see it?

For one who might say that "saving lives is more important than...cherry picking from bibles", you choose to spend the energy on here defending the idea that the Pope is a dimwit for being a member of Hitler Youth in the 40's and his view that "fidelity within heterosexual marriage, chastity and abstinence are the best ways to stop AIDS". And not talk about when "Benedict called on Christians to tackle violence, poverty, corruption and abuse of power".

Guess what? Fidelity w/in heterosexual marriage (I'd open that up to "monogamous union"), chastity if you're infected and abstinence until you're married/in that monogamous union (I'd toss in non-drug use as well) are about 100% effective at stopping the spread of AIDS. That cannot be denied. If people choose not to be celibate if already infected, abstain from it until you're married, and be faithful once you are? Sexual Russian Roulette. Unfortunately, when personal discipline and sacrifice is neither taught nor practiced, self-gratification becomes the norm. And the psychology and sociology comes in when those who gratify themselves through promiscuous sex outside of a monogamous union become infected, b/c there's not a strong precedent to suggest that they'll start down the "personal sacrifice" path.

I would submit that condoms are readily available in the US, and groups of Catholic priests aren't running around and stealing/burning/pillaging/whatever they're doing shipments of them to keep them from end users. Sex education in schools is more prevalent than it's ever been. And yet, according to Avert, an AIDS charity, HIV infection is going up in the US.

I would keep going, but I've been writing enough for now.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

You mean when it says and adulteress should be stoned to death?

Or when it talks about a disobedient child shall be put to death?

Or that mixing fibers and combining meat and dairy shall result in death?

Of course, there is plenty of genocide in the bible to justify Hitler Youth.

Fact is the pope picks and chooses. And invents. Condoms are never mentioned, neither is abortion.

As for sex, man, ever read the bible? Sex up the wazoo, all those holy men.


Some people might say saving lives is more important, than you know, cherry picking from bibles.

I think there is a distinct difference between waiting for marriage before having sex and stoning someone to death. I understand you have a great deal of anger towards a select group of people, but your correlation between many things in an attempt to try to prove a point is getting a little crazy.

You'll also note that I said his views weren't necessarily realistic in this day and age - as are many things in the Bible. The Bible is not a direct writing of what God says, but rather man's interpretation of many things. With all things done by man there is sure to be faults, and the Bible is not meant to be taken as a direct order on how to live your life. It is meant to help guide you as you derive from it your own meanings - as are many other written works from multiple religions and belief systems.

BrianFromWA expressed other things I also feel. If you are infected with HIV/AIDS it is your responsibility to control your actions and not assist in the spread of this horrible disease - the only sure way to control that in terms of sex is to simply not have any. An unfortunate consequence of life but it ensures others do not get it from you in this manner. Of course there is still the possibility of mixing blood from open wounds that you are unaware of and that will never be able to be controlled, but refraining from engaging in consensual sexual activities can be controlled.

AIDS will never be stopped because there will always be promiscuous people, Bug Chasers, and sociopaths; however, if more sensible people were responsible we could slowly cut down over time the spread of AIDs.

Although the message from the Pope was perhaps not worded to perfection for people who want to deride everything he says, and his views are out-dated in this day and age - his belief in his message does not make him a dipshit. He was essentially saying be responsible and wait until marriage and then there is no need for condoms; condoms promote being promiscuous.

 

[barfo]

Guess what? Fidelity w/in heterosexual marriage (I'd open that up to "monogamous union"), chastity if you're infected and abstinence until you're married/in that monogamous union (I'd toss in non-drug use as well) are about 100% effective at stopping the spread of AIDS. That cannot be denied. If people choose not to be celibate if already infected, abstain from it until you're married, and be faithful once you are? Sexual Russian Roulette. Unfortunately, when personal discipline and sacrifice is neither taught nor practiced, self-gratification becomes the norm.

Well, that's fine then. You can't get AIDS from self-gratification.

barfo

 

[BrianFromWA]

LOL. Leave it to the Producer to help me out in that.

Guess I should have said "hedonism" becomes the norm. Manual self-gratification would be a great way of stopping the spread of AIDS, I guess.

 

[barfo]

BrianFromWA expressed other things I also feel. If you are infected with HIV/AIDS it is your responsibility to control your actions and not assist in the spread of this horrible disease - the only sure way to control that in terms of sex is to simply not have any. An unfortunate consequence of life but it ensures others do not get it from you in this manner. Of course there is still the possibility of mixing blood from open wounds that you are unaware of and that will never be able to be controlled, but refraining from engaging in consensual sexual activities can be controlled.

AIDS will never be stopped because there will always be promiscuous people, Bug Chasers, and sociopaths; however, if more sensible people were responsible we could slowly cut down over time the spread of AIDs.

A problem with that is that people don't always know they are infected.

He was essentially saying be responsible and wait until marriage and then there is no need for condoms; condoms promote being promiscuous.

I don't think that is the whole story, since the Pope is against married people using condoms as well.

barfo

 

[Minstrel]

Manual self-gratification would be a great way of stopping the spread of AIDS, I guess.

But when Dr. Jocelyn Elders suggested teaching that in sex-ed, she was drummed out as Surgeon General.

 

[Denny Crane]

But when Dr. Jocelyn Elders suggested teaching that in sex-ed, she was drummed out as Surgeon General.

Yet she came across as dumb as a box of rocks.

And it was counter to the Administration's official position that manual self stimulation is out if you can get an intern to do it instead.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

A problem with that is that people don't always know they are infected.



I don't think that is the whole story, since the Pope is against married people using condoms as well.

barfo

I thought I had put in my post a side-note mentioning that of course there would be people who did not know at the time they were infected - my bad.

As for being against married people using condoms then he is probably more old-fashioned than I thought and doesn't believe in sex unless it is for reproductive measures. Not surprising considering the generation he is from, but again out of touch.

I still believe the basic premise of his message is simply to be responsible and not have premarital sex.

 

[barfo]

I thought I had put in my post a side-note mentioning that of course there would be people who did not know at the time they were infected - my bad.

As for being against married people using condoms then he is probably more old-fashioned than I thought and doesn't believe in sex unless it is for reproductive measures. Not surprising considering the generation he is from, but again out of touch.

I still believe the basic premise of his message is simply to be responsible and not have premarital sex.

I'd certainly agree that he's old-fashioned; but it isn't just him. The Catholic church itself is very strongly anti-birth control. I don't expect that to change, even if this Pope dies and they hire a GenX pope with lots of tats and a skateboard.

barfo

 

[The Sebastian Express]

I'd certainly agree that he's old-fashioned; but it isn't just him. The Catholic church itself is very strongly anti-birth control. I don't expect that to change, even if this Pope dies and they hire a GenX pope with lots of tats and a skateboard.

barfo

Oh, I know. I think things will start to get more lax (and by more lax I mean moving a smidge every ten years or so) as generations pass on. We wont live to see it most likely.

 

[el_Diablo]

it was mandatory for boys over 10 years to join hitler jugend (after 1941, earlier the joining age was 17). and if something was mandatory in nazi germany, it was quite difficult to avoid.

 

[maxiep]

it was mandatory for boys over 10 years to join hitler jugend (after 1941, earlier the joining age was 17). and if something was mandatory in nazi germany, it was quite difficult to avoid.

Yeah, I don't think there was a German term for "conscientious objector" under Hitler. I think crandc is confusing Berlin for the Bay Area.

 

[Denny Crane]

Yeah, I don't think there was a German term for "conscientious objector" under Hitler. I think crandc is confusing Berlin for the Bay Area.

There was. Leiche

 

[maxiep]

There was. Leiche

 

[Денг Гордон]

The pope is no dimwit. You don't get into a powerful position like that by being a dimwit.

But just because he's not a dimwit, doesn't mean that you should listen to what he says. I think listening to what most religious leaders say is dangerous, because so few have that knack for common sense.

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[crandc]

Yeah, I don't think there was a German term for "conscientious objector" under Hitler. I think crandc is confusing Berlin for the Bay Area.

No. I know there were people who left the country rather than participate in genocide. I know the Catholic Church officialdom in Germany and throughout Europe was virulently anti-Semitic, starting with the then pope. I therefore have reason to at least suspect, although I admit I have no hard evidence, that a prosperous and strongly Catholic family living in one of the most conservative areas of Germany would at least tacitly accept Nazism. (That is not to take anything away from the courageous individual Catholics, lay and clergy, who risked their lives in defiance of their church to save others. They are to be honored. But I know of no such in the Ratzinger family.)

For those who keep defending the pope, as I said, there is the opinion that only married heterosexuals are allowed sex and the rest of us must be celibate for life. But he also stated, AS FACT, that condoms do not reduce AIDS and in fact make it worse. So, cite me the studies that show that condoms spread, rather than slow, AIDS. Justify the religious leaders who destroyed shipments of condoms to prevent their use. Base it on fact, not your god. Since the pope made it as a statement of fact. I'm waiting.

 

[maxiep]

No. I know there were people who left the country rather than participate in genocide. I know the Catholic Church officialdom in Germany and throughout Europe was virulently anti-Semitic, starting with the then pope. I therefore have reason to at least suspect, although I admit I have no hard evidence, that a prosperous and strongly Catholic family living in one of the most conservative areas of Germany would at least tacitly accept Nazism. (That is not to take anything away from the courageous individual Catholics, lay and clergy, who risked their lives in defiance of their church to save others. They are to be honored. But I know of no such in the Ratzinger family.)

For those who keep defending the pope, as I said, there is the opinion that only married heterosexuals are allowed sex and the rest of us must be celibate for life. But he also stated, AS FACT, that condoms do not reduce AIDS and in fact make it worse. So, cite me the studies that show that condoms spread, rather than slow, AIDS. Justify the religious leaders who destroyed shipments of condoms to prevent their use. Base it on fact, not your god. Since the pope made it as a statement of fact. I'm waiting.

I swear, you're never happier than when you're a victim.

 

[el_Diablo]

so all germans older than 13 who didn't leave the country during hitler's reign participated in genocide?

I guess all americans agreed with bush, then.

 

[maxiep]

so all germans older than 13 who didn't leave the country during hitler's reign participated in genocide?

I guess all americans agreed with bush, then.

I've never seen someone who demands so much understanding from others be so intolerant herself. It's shocking.

 

[Wheels]

I believe in freedom of choice. People may believe what they wish. The fact that you're so threatened by someone who speaks out against the things you believe as to equate them with the Hitler Youth says more about you than the Pope.

sorry Maxie the pope was a member of the Hitler youth.. I think that was more literal than an insult.

 

[Wheels]

it was mandatory for boys over 10 years to join hitler jugend (after 1941, earlier the joining age was 17). and if something was mandatory in nazi germany, it was quite difficult to avoid.

No but there were still people who went against it.. or didnt join the youth. People still can make choices.. just like the Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses, Polish, Homosexuals, etc, who refused to heil hitler, it cost a lot their lives, but they made the choice to stand up for what is right, as opposed to just join something that was wrong.

 

[maxiep]

sorry Maxie the pope was a member of the Hitler youth.. I think that was more literal than an insult.

Yep, I was mistaken. However, if you read the thread further, it doesn't appear as if he volunteered.

 

[Wheels]

Yep, I was mistaken. However, if you read the thread further, it doesn't appear as if he volunteered.

I did read that, and my post above this one kind of did address that. Lots of people weren't volunteered, Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses, Polish etc weren't volunteered into concentration camps.. but they were there and made the choice to not heil hitler etc. Jewish people had less choices.. but there were German people in those camps too. A JW 14 year old would be required to join the hitler youth as well.. yet they still didnt (not a hundred % I'm sure.. some people gave in I understand that, but I am talking as a whole)

 

[maxiep]

I did read that, and my post above this one kind of did address that. Lots of people weren't volunteered, Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses, Polish etc weren't volunteered into concentration camps.. but they were there and made the choice to not heil hitler etc. Jewish people had less choices.. but there were German people in those camps too. A JW 14 year old would be required to join the hitler youth as well.. yet they still didnt (not a hundred % I'm sure.. some people gave in I understand that, but I am talking as a whole)

Wait, are you saying there were Jews out and proud in the Hitler Youth? I have two words for you: Final Solution.

 

[Wheels]

Wait, are you saying there were Jews out and proud in the Hitler Youth? I have two words for you: Final Solution.

No I was saying Jewish people didnt have as much of a choice like those who would be of the "elite race" that Hitler promoted, yet still didnt partake in it.

 

[maxiep]

No I was saying Jewish people didnt have as much of a choice like those who would be of the "elite race" that Hitler promoted, yet still didnt partake in it.

You and I are just going to have to agree to disagree. I believe your position to be completely unrealistic for a 14 year old boy.

 

[Wheels]

You and I are just going to have to agree to disagree. I believe your position to be completely unrealistic for a 14 year old boy.

thats fine to agree to disagree. But I dont see it as unrealisim (IMO of course) when a German Boy can join the Hitler youth and it be shrugged off, and a 14 year old German Boy Jehovah's Witness can refuse to raise his hand to Hitler, and get shot for it. I bet those kids who didnt heil hitler were just as scared as the pope was too.. yet they still made their decision, and Benedict made his.

 

[MARIS61]

Yep, I was mistaken. However, if you read the thread further, it doesn't appear as if he volunteered.

All people are born with the Freedom of Will, therefore he joined voluntarily.

Whether out of sheer joy at the opportunity to serve Hitler, or out of simple cowardice, he PUBLICLY SUPPORTED Adolph Hitler in his slaughter of millions.

Either way, his opinions and views are rendered worthless by his actions.

 

[maxiep]

All people are born with the Freedom of Will, therefore he joined voluntarily.

Whether out of sheer joy at the opportunity to serve Hitler, or out of simple cowardice, he PUBLICLY SUPPORTED Adolph Hitler in his slaughter of millions.

Either way, his opinions and views are rendered worthless by his actions.

I'm using my "Freedom of Will" to not take anything you post seriously.