POR needs to REBUILD not reload

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Does it count as drafting Dirk when they traded for him?

You forget, Dallas did draft Jason Kidd, Jason Terry, Shawn Marion, and Tyson Chandler though.

 

[Blaze01]

Does it count as drafting Dirk when they traded for him?

You mean that they made a swap of picks with MIL during the draft...What do you think? So under your parameters POR did not draft Aldridge or Roy then?

 

[julius]

You forget, Dallas did draft Jason Kidd, Jason Terry, Shawn Marion, and Tyson Chandler though.

I'm probably missing your point (having read ANY of this thread but your last post) but Dallas did draft Kidd, but no one else on your list.

Since I'm too lazy to read the rest of this thread, what did you mean by it?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I'm probably missing your point (having read ANY of this thread but your last post) but Dallas did draft Kidd, but no one else on your list.

Since I'm too lazy to read the rest of this thread, what did you mean by it?

building through the draft isn't a way to win championships unless you are getting a top 3 pick. The better way is to use cap space/expiring contracts/draft picks/young talent to trade for a star player.

basically go big or go home.

 

[julius]

building through the draft isn't a way to win championships. The better way is to use cap space/expiring contracts/draft picks/young talent to trade for a star player.

Ok, so you were meaning to use green font.

I get what you mean, and agree. Smart drafting doesn't hurt though. But I'm not sold on this team having that skill-set anymore.

 

[Blaze01]

Wes is not a 6th-8th option on a great team. No great team has an 8th player on their roster who scores 12-15ppg (unless you're Denver who plays everyone equal minutes). He's a 4th-5th option who should be used as a spot up shooter from three and a defensive pest. The only reason he's been used as a number 3 option is because...

You really think he is the 4th or 5th option...a starter...on OKC? Seriously? Or that he would average 12-15ppg on a good playoff team? Come on now...He is a bench player...probably not the 1st guy off the bench (6th man) but among the next 2-3 players off the bench....So yes, a 6th-8th guy.

and I don't blame POR for playing him as a starter etc...but the point you are missing is that you have to be realistic to what he really is...a bench player, your not going to have a championship caliber team with Wes Matthews as your starting SG...or worse counting on to be your 3rd best player.

POR needs to acquire those guys...they need to recognize the players they have for what they are...and do whatever is necessary to acquire the players they need (2nd & 3rd all star caliber options)

 

[RoyToy]

OKC's current starting SG is Thabo Sefolosha

 

[Blaze01]

You build a competitive roster through the draft

You go out and make big moves in trades/FA to make your team a contender

The Blazers can do both of those this summer with potentially two lottery picks and cap space. They are in a great position to reload with those assets.

Whether they have the brains to pull it off is a different question.

Uh not quite correct....You get your foundation (ie best players) through the draft and then you use free agency and trades to add the parts around that....

That is unless you are a big market team like LA, BOS, MIA, NY...those teams play under a different set of rules than small market teams do when it comes to free agents....

BTW, I would love to see how you think POR is going to reload this current team into a championship caliber team by trading away picks, trades (that are not horrendously lopsided in thier favor) and free agent moves that don't include pipedreams (aka D-Will)....

Not going to happen....

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

the problem with a lot of thinking on blazers fans is they get too caught up with stupid crap like strategy and building for the future, stashing guys away, advanced stats and shit like that, when all you need to be concerned with is get the best talent on the team as fast as humanely possible. that's how winners get NBA championships.

woe is me, I'm a small market team so I need a small market mentality. fuck that. Throw the hat in the ring, try at least. talking about "pipedreams" is how losing franchises talk.

 

[Blaze01]

The Spurs never "built through the draft". If you call tanking one season because the Admiral is out and lucking out to get the greatest PF of all time "building through the draft".

OKC....like I said, they were bad enough to get top 4 picks 3 years in a row. Sure, I guess that's "building through the draft" if you tank that badly multiple years in a row. Even then, that isn't really a rebuilding strategy, its just being terrible. More teams than not do this and are perennially bad.

Celtics would have never won without doing a mega trade for Ray Ray and Garnett. Big sudden lopsided trade.

Heat would have never won without getting Shaq. Big sudden lopsided trade.

Lakers wouldn't have won without getting Gasol. He should have been their finals MVP. Big sudden lopsided trade.

Big sudden lopsided trades for veteran players in their prime is the way to go.

Are you serious with this? The Spurs would never have won w\o Ginobli & Parker, the Celtice w\o Pierce and Rondo, Heat w\o Wade...Lakers w\o Kobe...

and so let me get this right, you think that a "sudden lopsided trade" in POR favor is more likely to occur for POR than acquiring a all star caliber player via the draft?

Seriously?

 

[RoyToy]

Uh not quite correct....You get your foundation (ie best players) through the draft and then you use free agency and trades to add the parts around that....

Aldridge

That is unless you are a big market team like LA, BOS, MIA, NY...those teams play under a different set of rules than small market teams do when it comes to free agents....

When it comes to FA, yes, although it's exaggerated imo. Crawford turned down NY for Portland and Sacramento. Why? Money, and Paul Allen has it. There's also trades as well.

BTW, I would love to see how you think POR is going to reload this current team into a championship caliber team by trading away picks, trades (that are not horrendously lopsided in thier favor) and free agent moves that don't include pipedreams (aka D-Will)....

Do I have an exact plan? No.

Do the Blazers have the assets and cap space to turn the roster around? Yes.

 

[Blaze01]

OKC's current starting SG is Thabo Sefolosha

Who gives way to James Harden at the SG spot...

You want to play semantice here?

First off, I am not convinced that if OKC had Matthews right now that they would start him over Sefolosha to begin with....but he certainly wouldn't play more minutes than James Harden who plays the majority of TIME at SG...

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Are you serious with this? The Spurs would never have won w\o Ginobli & Parker, the Celtice w\o Pierce and Rondo, Heat w\o Wade...Lakers w\o Kobe...

and so let me get this right, you think that a "sudden lopsided trade" in POR favor is more likely to occur for POR than acquiring a all star caliber player via the draft?

Seriously?

The Spurs won a championship w/o Ginobili and Parker.

Making huge lopsided trades puts a team over the edge to win rings. That's just the simple fact of it all. Either that or a top 3 Draft Pick.

everything else just puts you in mediocrity and first round exits.

We have draft picks and tons of cap space.

The only way we can get good in the draft is to acquire a top 3 pick in the draft and that's not even a guarantee. So either get a top 3 pick or aim for star players. Frankly, I think we could probably do both immediately.


The last Blazers team that was good and got far in the playoffs (past the first round) only did so after stacking the team with talent after a bunch of trades.

 

[Blaze01]

the problem with a lot of thinking on blazers fans is they get too caught up with stupid crap like strategy and building for the future, stashing guys away, advanced stats and shit like that, when all you need to be concerned with is get the best talent on the team as fast as humanely possible. that's how winners get NBA championships.

woe is me, I'm a small market team so I need a small market mentality. fuck that. Throw the hat in the ring, try at least. talking about "pipedreams" is how losing franchises talk.

and when they don't work, then what?

No one is saying you shouldn't TRY to go after D-Will or INQUIRE about top tier players, but you better have a more realistic strategy ready to go when those probably fall through....

 

[RoyToy]

Who gives way to James Harden at the SG spot...

You want to play semantice here?

First off, I am not convinced that if OKC had Matthews right now that they would start him over Sefolosha to begin with....but he certainly wouldn't play more minutes than James Harden who plays the majority of TIME at SG...

Matthews would start and Harden would continue to be a great 6th man. They could also easily be on the court at the same time as Harden can run the point a little bit and set teammates up.

Sefolosha over Matthews? Please...

Matthews is a perfect glue guy in a starting lineup. He doesn't need the ball to put up 20pts in a game.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

and when they don't work, then what?

No one is saying you shouldn't TRY to go after D-Will or INQUIRE about top tier players, but you better have a more realistic strategy ready to go when those probably fall through....

You do everything humanely possible to make it happen. Like I said, go big or go home. "realistic strategy" just gets "realistic results" meaning waiting around for the draft lottery year after year to determine our fate.

 

[Blaze01]

Aldridge

Yes, and now they need 1 or 2 more....

When it comes to FA, yes, although it's exaggerated imo. Crawford turned down NY for Portland and Sacramento. Why? Money, and Paul Allen has it. There's also trades as well.

and Crawford was a mid tier, at best FA, whose had choices b\t NY, POR and SAC....think about that...He could hardly be called anything resembling a top tier free agent...

Do I have an exact plan? No.

Do the Blazers have the assets and cap space to turn the roster around? Yes.

Turn it around to what exactly? A middling team that has to battle just to make the playoffs every year with no hope of advancing ANYWHERE in it?

Do you want them to build a championship team or a mediocre team w\o any serious ambitions of winning a title? b\c you are not going to win a title trading good draft picks for middling NBA talent....

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

6th and 11th picks aren't "good". Only top 3 matter.

 

[Blaze01]

Matthews would start and Harden would continue to be a great 6th man. They could also easily be on the court at the same time as Harden can run the point a little bit and set teammates up.

Sefolosha over Matthews? Please...

Matthews is a perfect glue guy in a starting lineup. He doesn't need the ball to put up 20pts in a game.

I highly doubt that and you severely overate Wes Matthews...maybe you are related to him or something...

 

[RoyToy]

I highly doubt that and you severely overate Wes Matthews...maybe you are related to him or something...

You severely overrate Thabo Sefolosha

 

[Blaze01]

6th and 11th picks aren't "good". Only top 3 matter.

In this draft they are....

You got 9 player who were rated in the top 5 of high school prospects for thier year in this draft...15 who were in the top 10...and a pretty high percentage rate 60%+ of those players have either become or are on thier way to becominf good\great NBA players...There is a pretty strong correlation there....

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

In this draft they are....

You got 9 player who were rated in the top 5 of high school prospects for thier year in this draft...15 who were in the top 10...and a pretty high percentage rate 60%+ of those players have either become or are on thier way to becominf good\great NBA players...There is a pretty strong correlation there....

Its a strong draft, but in the top 3, the talent is of course in the category of more likely to become a star. We're not even guaranteed a top 10 pick in the draft or two picks here. Like I said, "just wait for the draft lottery".

 

[Blaze01]

You severely overrate Thabo Sefolosha

lol I don't...ask OKC, they love the guy....

He is as good or better of a defender than Wes Matthews is...

But irregardless, the poitn is Matthews would play limited minutes for that team...LIKE he should be playing limited minutes for a GOOD POR team...for a BAD POR team he plays a lot of minutes....

 

[RoyToy]

Yes, and now they need 1 or 2 more....

Agreed.

and Crawford was a mid tier, at best FA, whose had choices b\t NY, POR and SAC....think about that...He could hardly be called anything resembling a top tier free agent...

Top tier FA aren't available every summer. That said, while markets matter, most players prefer money and a situation that looks like a good one

Turn it around to what exactly? A middling team that has to battle just to make the playoffs every year with no hope of advancing ANYWHERE in it?

That's a silly thing to say considering we haven't seen the moves they made yet.

Do you want them to build a championship team or a mediocre team w\o any serious ambitions of winning a title? b\c you are not going to win a title trading good draft picks for middling NBA talent....

I'm sure like most fans, I want a contending team.

And where did I say "trade draft picks for middling talent". Nice, you're creating arguments now.

 

[RoyToy]

lol I don't...ask OKC, they love the guy....

He is as good or better of a defender than Wes Matthews is...

But irregardless, the poitn is Matthews would play limited minutes for that team...LIKE he should be playing limited minutes for a GOOD POR team...for a BAD POR team he plays a lot of minutes....

Who is a better player, Matthews or Sefolosha?

 

[Blaze01]

Its a strong draft, but in the top 3, the talent is of course in the category of more likely to become a star. We're not even guaranteed a top 10 pick in the draft or two picks here. Like I said, "just wait for the draft lottery".

Well, 5 of those kids were rated in the top 3 of thier respectve HS class....

POR may end up at #6, probably #7...I'd say there is a good chance they will be able to select 1 of these kids for sure, potentially 2...Furthermore they could always use both picks to trade up IF they REALLY liked a player...

Much better way to go than trading those picks for the likes of Gortat, Lowry, Evans or Iguodala....

 

[Rhal]

In this draft they are....

You got 9 player who were rated in the top 5 of high school prospects for thier year in this draft...15 who were in the top 10...and a pretty high percentage rate 60%+ of those players have either become or are on thier way to becominf good\great NBA players...There is a pretty strong correlation there....

No disagreement that the draft is still loaded after the top 5 are gone. Those picks are valuable and can net us an allstar or fringe all-stars to play with LA or great talent to make us look like a marquee place for a top FA to come too.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Well, 5 of those kids were rated in the top 3 of thier respectve HS class....

POR may end up at #6, probably #7...I'd say there is a good chance they will be able to select 1 of these kids for sure, potentially 2...Furthermore they could always use both picks to trade up IF they REALLY liked a player...

Much better way to go than trading those picks for the likes of Gortat, Lowry, Evans or Iguodala....

Well, not than Igoudala.

 

[Rhal]

Well, 5 of those kids were rated in the top 3 of thier respectve HS class....

POR may end up at #6, probably #7...I'd say there is a good chance they will be able to select 1 of these kids for sure, potentially 2...Furthermore they could always use both picks to trade up IF they REALLY liked a player...

Much better way to go than trading those picks for the likes of Gortat, Lowry, Evans or Iguodala....

I would rather have 2 of those three (not evans) then our picks. Those are all fringe all stars while the players we select will be lucky to be fringe all stars.

 

[Blaze01]

Who is a better player, Matthews or Sefolosha?

I'd say debateable...Matthews has better offensive stats for sure, Sefolosha is regarded as a top defender...For PKC with Westbrook\Durant out on the floor they probably value the defense of Sefolosha...but again this all moot anyway, as the reality of the situation is that Harden plays the majority of the minutes and Matthews wouldn't be digging into his minutes at all....

Honestly I am not a huge fan of either one...That is why I wouldn't mind seeing POR trade Matthews away for mid 1st pick....He is not a key player that you absolutely must have (or would be hard to acquire a player of his type) on a championship team...Get the key pieces first and then worry about players like Wes Matthews after that...