POR needs to REBUILD not reload

[RR7]

LA ain't leading you anywere. If you have the gut feeling that Anthony Davis is closer to Dwight Howard. That has a better shot of winning you a title than a team lead by LA.

Has Dwight proven to be someone easy to build around? Better than LMA, sure, because of his fantastic defense, but he has a similar issue to LA as your #1 guy where he's someone you can't reliably go to at the end of a game to get you a win consistently. Does Davis change that? He's not physically dominating like Shaq, and never will be. Can he be Garnett? Sure. Minnesota built around Garnett for how long, or tried to, before having to trade him? Lather, rinse, repeat. We trade Aldridge for him, and there's a good chance we end up with a slightly better player, but still no titles, and in 8 years, we're talking about moving him for someone we can build around, because he's not a #1 guy.

 

[Blaze01]

Dude freaking Thabo Sefolosha, Kendrick Perkins and Serge Ibaka are on OKC as starters. You trying to tell me they're "better options" on offense than Wes? Yeah, Harden comes off of the bench but is realistically their number 3 (sometimes higher) guy. So there are 3 guys on OKC who are clearly better offensive options than Wes. Does that mean he'd be the 4th best player? Not necessarily, because those 3 starters I mentioned all play important ROLES within their team, it just doesn't involve scoring. Wes is easily a better offensive player than those guys, but does he fill a role like they do? That's a lot more debatable, and I'd say no given how well OKC works together. But that doesn't negate the fact that on their team, Wes wouldn't be 6th-8th option on that team. That's just ridiculous.

Homer.....


Ibaka for one is WAY WAY better than Wes....That will be confirmed when his contract comes up....

 

[Blaze01]

I didn't cherry pick. #6 and #11, which are our likely picks and the ones you can think we can find the "diamond in the rough". Need some consistency, which I have listed.
However, history shows that its not likely.

But if you want to include every draft pick from #6 and beyond for 12 years, you're going to find more crap than stars. Like I said, finding a star outside of the top 3 picks is more of an outlier than anything. Its a bad strategy to bank your future on picking up players outside the top 3-4 picks in the draft.

Bullshit....


and uh, yeah you did cherry pick.....JUST choosing picks #6 & #11 and ignoring picks #7-10 or players chosen within a few picks of those is flat out misleading....Teams make bad picks, some scouts are better than others....this isn't a discussion about whether POR CAN make the right pick (that IS entirely debateable), this is a discussion on whether or not a good\very good player IS there to be chosen in the 1st place....Which there almost always is.

Big difference....

and again, i will repeat, this draft is stronger than MANY drafts before it, the majority of 2 & 3 years worth of top talent compressed into 1 draft....more good players to be taken, so #6 & #11 are MUCH stronger this year than they have been in recent years, that is FACT.....

 

[Blaze01]

Let me say that again.

All-star player in his early prime.
Decent role players
Lots of free cap space
Draft picks that can be used as trade assets or to get more role players

You don't take all of this and say "fuck it" lets go draft Anthony Davis and build through the draft. It'll take 5 years to do so. Then what, you trade him again for the lure of having the #1 pick again? Some people are just entranced by having high draft picks year after year. Sure, chances are you will get talent but if you already have the talent, stop thinking about it.

Dude you are dreaming....

You can't even come up with some realistic and I emphasize REALISTIC players that POR could trade for\sign as free agents that could instantly turn this team into a contender... A CONTENDER....Buying into this "reload" bullshit that POR mgmt is trying to sell you is the biggest pipedream that some of you guys can't help yourselves from smoking....

Reloading to a 1st round and out team of insignificance IS relatively easy...yeah they can do that...Building a team that can compete for a championship IS NOT easy and actually REQUIRES forward thinking and planning....Not pinning all your hopes on one years' flurry of activity as they would have you believe...THAT is preposterous...and yet that is exactly what you seem to be pushing for...

 

[RedHotRollin]

Dude you are dreaming....

You can't even come up with some realistic and I emphasize REALISTIC players that POR could trade for\sign as free agents that could instantly turn this team into a contender... A CONTENDER....Buying into this "reload" bullshit that POR mgmt is trying to sell you is the biggest pipedream that some of you guys can't help yourselves from smoking....

Reloading to a 1st round and out team of insignificance IS relatively easy...yeah they can do that...Building a team that can compete for a championship IS NOT easy and actually REQUIRES forward thinking and planning....Not pinning all your hopes on one years' flurry of activity as they would have you believe...THAT is preposterous...and yet that is exactly what you seem to be pushing for...

Kicking ass and taking names I see...

 

[RR7]

Dude you are dreaming....

You can't even come up with some realistic and I emphasize REALISTIC players that POR could trade for\sign as free agents that could instantly turn this team into a contender... A CONTENDER....Buying into this "reload" bullshit that POR mgmt is trying to sell you is the biggest pipedream that some of you guys can't help yourselves from smoking....

Reloading to a 1st round and out team of insignificance IS relatively easy...yeah they can do that...Building a team that can compete for a championship IS NOT easy and actually REQUIRES forward thinking and planning....Not pinning all your hopes on one years' flurry of activity as they would have you believe...THAT is preposterous...and yet that is exactly what you seem to be pushing for...

It's easy to list players that could "potentially" make us contenders if everything goes right with them. The EXACT same way it is building through the draft, where you need players that right now do not at all look like franchise players become just that in order for us to be title contenders. Does Beal or Lamb right now look like #1 franchise changing guys? No. Could they be? I suppose. And you can take a 2-4 year flyer on seeing if they are. Could a combination of, say, Evans and Iguodola make us title contenders? Maybe. There's unknown in both. It's simply risking on whether a guy can develop into something that he has not shown to be, or taking a chance on proven players all coming together and being a "sum is greater than the parts" team. Is either wrong? No. Personally, I'd take a chance on the latter, but that's just me. But being condescending to others as if they're plan is stupid while you're banking on guys like Henson as top 10 HS talents become build a title team around guys is equally as stupid to me. ALL plans take luck. Laughing at someone else's luck is kind of odd.

 

[Nate4Prez]

It's easy to list players that could "potentially" make us contenders if everything goes right with them. The EXACT same way it is building through the draft, where you need players that right now do not at all look like franchise players become just that in order for us to be title contenders. Does Beal or Lamb right now look like #1 franchise changing guys? No. Could they be? I suppose. And you can take a 2-4 year flyer on seeing if they are. Could a combination of, say, Evans and Iguodola make us title contenders? Maybe. There's unknown in both. It's simply risking on whether a guy can develop into something that he has not shown to be, or taking a chance on proven players all coming together and being a "sum is greater than the parts" team. Is either wrong? No. Personally, I'd take a chance on the latter, but that's just me. But being condescending to others as if they're plan is stupid while you're banking on guys like Henson as top 10 HS talents become build a title team around guys is equally as stupid to me. ALL plans take luck. Laughing at someone else's luck is kind of odd.

repped

 

[Blaze01]

It's easy to list players that could "potentially" make us contenders if everything goes right with them. The EXACT same way it is building through the draft, where you need players that right now do not at all look like franchise players become just that in order for us to be title contenders. Does Beal or Lamb right now look like #1 franchise changing guys? No. Could they be? I suppose. And you can take a 2-4 year flyer on seeing if they are. Could a combination of, say, Evans and Iguodola make us title contenders? Maybe. There's unknown in both. It's simply risking on whether a guy can develop into something that he has not shown to be, or taking a chance on proven players all coming together and being a "sum is greater than the parts" team. Is either wrong? No. Personally, I'd take a chance on the latter, but that's just me. But being condescending to others as if they're plan is stupid while you're banking on guys like Henson as top 10 HS talents become build a title team around guys is equally as stupid to me. ALL plans take luck. Laughing at someone else's luck is kind of odd.

Did Dwayne Wade when he came out? Joe Johnson? What about Paul Pierce?

I know what Iguodala, Gortat & Lowry can do...and I am not impressed...yeah they would make the team better, but not good enough to go anywhere, and once again isn't that the whole point?

You have to ask yourselves as fans whether or not you want to support a franchise that lies to you and then asks you to stick with them while they put together middling teams that if they are fortunate to make the playoffs, can't advance past the 1st round....

Yeah there is unknown in the draft, yeah you could totally miss on a pick...I'd rather take my chances on guys like Beal, Lamb, Rivers, Barnes, P.Jones than settle...SETTLE for mid tier talent and hope that it all magically clicks together...You have to have scouts and a GM who know what the heck they are doing though...ALL the more important for POR to get a REAL GM in here as quickly as possible....

One method HAS proven to be better..it IS the draft...ALMOST every team has core players that were drafted, particularly smaller market teams....and this draft has a ton of TOP 5 HS players in it...and that percentage translates pretty darn well into good\very good players....better odds than Iguodala and Gortat suddenly making this team better than 1st round fodder....

Sorry if reality hurts, but that is reality...

 

[bigbailes]

no the "reality" is that most teams do BOTH well. Yes they add guys through the draft but most also get a big trade or FA to come along and push their team over the top. We have built through the draft with LA, now if they are serious about "reloading" they will use the assets on hand and pull off a trade or signing to put the team in a position to make a run.

 

[e_blazer]

Yeah there is unknown in the draft, yeah you could totally miss on a pick...I'd rather take my chances on guys like Beal, Lamb, Rivers, Barnes, P.Jones than settle...SETTLE for mid tier talent and hope that it all magically clicks together...You have to have scouts and a GM who know what the heck they are doing though...ALL the more important for POR to get a REAL GM in here as quickly as possible....

Sorry if reality hurts, but that is reality...

The most likely scenario is that guys like Beal, Lamb, Rivers, Barnes, and P.Jones will develop into solid NBA players at best, but not franchise-level talent. Simply go back over the past ten years worth of drafts and you'll see that proven out over and over again. Sorry if that reality hurts, but it's a fact that there are way more 3rd option players than stars each and every year, and there are more busts than just about anything else. I've got nothing against the Blazers taking one or more guys in the draft, but they absolutely have to find a way to get a proven star this summer.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

If the Celtics are looking to rebuild after Allen and Garnett's contracts expire, I bet Pierce could be available for little more than a Batum S&T. Would that qualify as a legit step in a reload process?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Dude you are dreaming....

You can't even come up with some realistic and I emphasize REALISTIC players that POR could trade for\sign as free agents that could instantly turn this team into a contender... A CONTENDER....Buying into this "reload" bullshit that POR mgmt is trying to sell you is the biggest pipedream that some of you guys can't help yourselves from smoking....

Reloading to a 1st round and out team of insignificance IS relatively easy...yeah they can do that...Building a team that can compete for a championship IS NOT easy and actually REQUIRES forward thinking and planning....Not pinning all your hopes on one years' flurry of activity as they would have you believe...THAT is preposterous...and yet that is exactly what you seem to be pushing for...

Conservative thinkers who always want the "realistic" thing to happen will never get anything done. It's your way of thinking that leads to mediocrity. The 20/80 will apply to any other picks outside the top 5. Guaranteed.

Deron Williams...long shot...sure, but you have to do it. He's friends with Aldridge, there's a better situation here in terms of available talent to win, he's stated he doesn't care about market size and we have cap space to get him. Maybe he won't sign here, but to think that using draft picks that only have a 20% chance of providing a servicable player in the league is the answer is foolish. You say its the "deepest draft", big deal. I listed the last dozen years of drafts at that spot, and there wasn't much there after years and years of this. You say to pick and choose other guys who were drafted #10 or #9 or wherever. Big deal, another 20% chance. For every one serviceable player at that draft spot, I can name 4 more that suck. As I said repeatedly, you need top 3 picks in the draft if you want to "build through the draft". End of story. Look at the history. Look at our current situation. You're infatuated with the draft because you maybe watched or followed someone since high school and think they can just step in. The NBA is filled with failed hoop dreams like that.

It doesn't take planning, it takes seizing the opportunity and like I said....go big or go home.

Remember the last time we "planned" and used "forward thinking"? Yeah, it was to create imaginary cap space in the future which I said wouldn't do jack shit because we wouldn't know the market. What ever became of that all? Yeah, all crap. You make big moves with immediate impact if you want to win. Time and time again this mantra has shown to be one that has produced winners not only in the NBA but in life.

{Poasted via palm pilot}

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Repeat

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

If the Celtics are looking to rebuild after Allen and Garnett's contracts expire, I bet Pierce could be available for little more than a Batum S&T. Would that qualify as a legit step in a reload process?

That was a rumored trade.

{Poasted via palm pilot}

 

[Blaze01]

Conservative thinkers who always want the "realistic" thing to happen will never get anything done. It's your way of thinking that leads to mediocrity. The 20/80 will apply to any other picks outside the top 5. Guaranteed.

Deron Williams...long shot...sure, but you have to do it. He's friends with Aldridge, there's a better situation here in terms of available talent to win, he's stated he doesn't care about market size and we have cap space to get him. Maybe he won't sign here, but to think that using draft picks that only have a 20% chance of providing a servicable player in the league is the answer is foolish. You say its the "deepest draft", big deal. I listed the last dozen years of drafts at that spot, and there wasn't much there after years and years of this. You say to pick and choose other guys who were drafted #10 or #9 or wherever. Big deal, another 20% chance. For every one serviceable player at that draft spot, I can name 4 more that suck. As I said repeatedly, you need top 3 picks in the draft if you want to "build through the draft". End of story. Look at the history. Look at our current situation. You're infatuated with the draft because you maybe watched or followed someone since high school and think they can just step in. The NBA is filled with failed hoop dreams like that.

It doesn't take planning, it takes seizing the opportunity and like I said....go big or go home.

Remember the last time we "planned" and used "forward thinking"? Yeah, it was to create imaginary cap space in the future which I said wouldn't do jack shit because we wouldn't know the market. What ever became of that all? Yeah, all crap. You make big moves with immediate impact if you want to win. Time and time again this mantra has shown to be one that has produced winners not only in the NBA but in life.

{Poasted via palm pilot}

I never said not to go after Deron Williams, I said just to realize that chase for what it is...a pipedream....

There will be a very good player sitting there at #6...better than what POR could get by trading the pick in all likelyhood...

You and others keep championing this foolish notion about trading the picks for an established player...you are delusional if you think that POR is going to get some top tier NBA player for that pick...Yeah maybe some player who WAS a top tier player but is now running on borrowed time, but a player in his prime, who is among the elite in the NBA? Not going to happen...I'll believe it when I see it...and I cannot recall having seen it 30+ years of Blazers' fandom

So what will end up happening, if POR mgmt is that stupid, is that they will trade the picks for mid tier players who don't really offer jack shit in terms of significant improvement...ie more years of 1st round and outs...and in a few years you'll look back and see some of these players lighting it up and wish the team would have kept the pick....

EVERY avenue is a gamble..and the odds are almost ALWAYS stacked against you...Yet the odds of finding a key core player at #6 in this years' draft are better than a fool's hope of signing such an impact player as a FA or trading the pick for one....

D-Will isn't coming here....

Niether is Rondo...

and any of the names being thrown out there (Lowry, Gortat, Iguodala,Evans) hardly inspire visions of a championship roster....Talk about delusions of grandeur....

You would have the team trade those picks for such players or I should say END up trading for such players, when your "Go big or go home" (ie Let's go get this teams best player") falls flat on its face...and you end up forced to scramble with Option B or Option C (Hello Raymond Felton!) Need I remind you what happened the last time POR had some significant cap space? They chased Paul Millsap and were rebuffed, they chased Hedo Turkoglu and were left on the altar...They chased David Lee and were turned down and then they ended up using good chunk of that space on Andre Miller....I like Andre Miller, but he isn't one of those "go big or go home" type of players that was going to carry POR to the championship now was he? And this year looks to be setting up no different...Chasing big dreams and settling by overpaying mid tier prospects (or WORSE, trading picks for them)....I think I have seen this sorry act by POR mgmt before...

I'd rather take the risk in the draft, have a player who is young and cost controlled.....Go that route and if you do happen to get D-Will by some miracle then your roster is stronger for it...

 

[roywonder07]

I would rather reload than rebuild, watching these playoffs without the Blazers is too painful. Boston was able to go from bottom dwellers to champions in just one offseason, so it's possible for us to do the same. Not saying it'll happen, I'm just saying anything is possible.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I never said not to go after Deron Williams, I said just to realize that chase for what it is...a pipedream....

There will be a very good player sitting there at #6...better than what POR could get by trading the pick in all likelyhood...

You and others keep championing this foolish notion about trading the picks for an established player...you are delusional if you think that POR is going to get some top tier NBA player for that pick...Yeah maybe some player who WAS a top tier player but is now running on borrowed time, but a player in his prime, who is among the elite in the NBA? Not going to happen...I'll believe it when I see it...and I cannot recall having seen it 30+ years of Blazers' fandom

So what will end up happening, if POR mgmt is that stupid, is that they will trade the picks for mid tier players who don't really offer jack shit in terms of significant improvement...ie more years of 1st round and outs...and in a few years you'll look back and see some of these players lighting it up and wish the team would have kept the pick....

EVERY avenue is a gamble..and the odds are almost ALWAYS stacked against you...Yet the odds of finding a key core player at #6 in this years' draft are better than a fool's hope of signing such an impact player as a FA or trading the pick for one....

D-Will isn't coming here....

Niether is Rondo...

and any of the names being thrown out there (Lowry, Gortat, Iguodala,Evans) hardly inspire visions of a championship roster....Talk about delusions of grandeur....

You would have the team trade those picks for such players or I should say END up trading for such players, when your "Go big or go home" (ie Let's go get this teams best player") falls flat on its face...and you end up forced to scramble with Option B or Option C (Hello Raymond Felton!) Need I remind you what happened the last time POR had some significant cap space? They chased Paul Millsap and were rebuffed, they chased Hedo Turkoglu and were left on the altar...They chased David Lee and were turned down and then they ended up using good chunk of that space on Andre Miller....I like Andre Miller, but he isn't one of those "go big or go home" type of players that was going to carry POR to the championship now was he? And this year looks to be setting up no different...Chasing big dreams and settling by overpaying mid tier prospects (or WORSE, trading picks for them)....I think I have seen this sorry act by POR mgmt before...

I'd rather take the risk in the draft, have a player who is young and cost controlled.....Go that route and if you do happen to get D-Will by some miracle then your roster is stronger for it...

Like I repeatedly stated, history shows a very poor chance of #6 being a serviceable player. Like I said, 20% chance. I'm not saying trade the pick, but you are severely overvaluing, it should be packaged and if you're going to pick, you need to trade to get into the top 3 by packaging both (with a player possibly). We're not even guaranteed to have that pick at all. Like I said, you're putting your faith in the bounce of a ping pong ball. And a mid-tier player, as history has shown, is going to be better than what the #6 or #11 pick becomes.

You probably don't recall but I was a HUGE opponent of the cap space plan. My reasoning was simple, that cap space being cleared out was imginary. There was no knowing the current market of free agents at that time, and by the time it came, there was nothing to build on. Paul Milsap was a poison pill offer. Hedo was not the target they were looking for. Portland sat on the sidelines and REFUSED to trade quite possibly the most valuable trade asset in NBA history in RLEC (Raef LaFrentz Ending Contract) because it was so obsessed with cap space it didn't want to have anything less than the max money. However, like I stated, you have to seize the moments quickly and planning for the future really isn't planning.

Taking the risk in the draft only works generally for top 3 picks. You need to get those or stop holding on to the notion that you're going to beat the market when it comes to making the miracle selections that DON'T end up as journeymen in the league.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I would rather reload than rebuild, watching these playoffs without the Blazers is too painful. Boston was able to go from bottom dwellers to champions in just one offseason, so it's possible for us to do the same. Not saying it'll happen, I'm just saying anything is possible.

Its not only possible, but its GENERALLY how NBA champions are made. Very quickly with big bold moves. Either that or a top 3 pick (even that generally takes a few years to blossom).

 

[RR7]

You have to ask yourselves as fans whether or not you want to support a franchise that lies to you and then asks you to stick with them while they put together middling teams that if they are fortunate to make the playoffs, can't advance past the 1st round......

And it seems like what you prefer is a team that you can lie to yourself with, and we can all jerk ourselves off for the next 4 years about the amazing potential and unknown of someone, and how our youngster will almost certainly hit his full potential and then some. Because it seems like when I have seen these fans happiest, that is what we had. A super young team with unproven talent that the fans could tell themselves would undoubtedly hit their full potential.

 

[oldguy]

It's only dumb if you don't have a good idea where the dude going number one is going with his career. If you see him as a Marcus Camby in three or four years, yes it's dumb. If you see him closer to Dwight Howard. I can't see where that would be dumb.

What if you see him as a Greg Oden?

Go Blazers

 

[RedHotRollin]

What if you see him as a Greg Oden?

Go Blazers

Which one? A healthy one or none? If we are looking at it the way we looked at it before he was drafted. Unknowing. Of course, I would sell my soul. So would 29 other general managers.

 

[RedHotRollin]

What if you see him as a Greg Oden?

Go Blazers

BTW. If Davis had that outlook. It would take a lot more than LA and and a number one to acquire him.

 

[oldguy]

Well OKC is a shining example of all being built through the draft and they are well on there way...Nothing is guaranteed, even if you have all the pieces put together (as POR did)...

but you left a lot out in those team assessments:

Dallas got Dirk through the draft if you recall...and they got big name players to come play for them and had some shrewd trades....POR does not have the DAL market or appeal...nor does it have an owner players like more than Cuban...

Celtics...Yeah they traded away for Garnett and Allen but you conveniently left out Pierce and Rondo whom they drafted who have had as much or more to do with thier success than Garnett and Allen have.

Spurs...Come on now, now you are just being ridiculous..Did they not draft Parker? Ginobli? (Not to mention David Robinson) Kawhi Leonard looked pretty darn good this year...

Heat...You are right, Dwayne Wade, whom they drafted, had little to do with that

Lakers....Uh Bynum has turned into a pretty darn good player....and LA, MIA, NY these are all great examples of big market teams being able to attract big stars...not cities like POR...thus the need to build through the draft...

Paul Pierce was drafted in 1998.
Celtics won the title 10 years later.

Dirk was drafted in 1998.
Mavs won the title 12 years later.

Building through the draft is a crap shoot. Even if you pick a really good player, you could suck ass for years before you win a title, ala Boston after drafting Pierce.

What if you give up LA and a pick to draft a sure fire, can't miss guy at #1...like Greg Oden? Or, you pick a Greg with #1 and find a jewel with the #6, like Brandon Roy?

There are NO guarantees, except that you will be bad for a long time with a complete rebuild. It might eventually turn into a title, or it might turn out the last time the Blazers built through the draft, getting LA, GO and BR, which is about as good as it gets via drafting. That didn't work out so great in the end.

Maybe I'm a shitty fan, but I don't want to watch the Blazers play the ping-pong balls for 5-10 years. I'd rather re-tool, keep getting to the playoffs, keep making moves (draft, trades and FA) to improve and hope that things click.

Go Blazers

 

[RedHotRollin]

On that note, there are no "guarantees" with anything. We could go the retool route and "suck ass" for years as well. The Blazers have enough resources to make this a quick a rebuild. They have cap room. They have player-assets. They have draft picks. They have Paul Allen's cash. The real question is, Will LA lead you anywhere. Is he the guy? My answer to that question is an emphatic no. If I knew, Davis was a Howard. I would take LA and move him for that top pick. If the team holding the number one needed another pick. I'd give it to them. Davis, would be your cornerstone. You still have 20 mil in cap room. Your player-assets and another another first round draft pick....And Allen's cash. This would be a two-three year project at the most. The 'retool' is going to take just as long.

 

[oldguy]

I get your point. But, with Dirk and Pierce, it was more like 10 years to build a champion team around them. No way to know if your scenario would be a 3-4 year project.

With a re-tool, we would at least be in the playoffs, much/if not most of the time. The re-tool might NEVER result in a title. The re-build also might never get us to the promised land. I'd rather watch hoops that is at least entertaining while I wait to see if the team develops into a contender.

I'm not trying to pick shit with you RHR. Just pointing out that building through the draft is what got us where we are today. And that building through the draft can take a LONG time, as it did for two of the teams being held up as teams that won a title by building through the draft.

As (I think is was) tlong said, we need to get lucky if we are ever going to get to the promised land. I don't have a lot of faith in that happening, given how crappy the team's luck has been for the last 10 years.

Go Blazers

 

[RedHotRollin]

I get your point. But, with Dirk and Pierce, it was more like 10 years to build a champion team around them. No way to know if your scenario would be a 3-4 year project.

With a re-tool, we would at least be in the playoffs, much/if not most of the time. The re-tool might NEVER result in a title. The re-build also might never get us to the promised land. I'd rather watch hoops that is at least entertaining while I wait to see if the team develops into a contender.

I'm not trying to pick shit with you RHR. Just pointing out that building through the draft is what got us where we are today. And that building through the draft can take a LONG time, as it did for two of the teams being held up as teams that won a title by building through the draft.

As (I think is was) tlong said, we need to get lucky if we are ever going to get to the promised land. I don't have a lot of faith in that happening, given how crappy the team's luck has been for the last 10 years.

Go Blazers

I know you're not causing probs. There is no guarantee the retool will work. First of all, I think to make it an official retool, you have to land Deron Williams and Roy Hibbert. Dragic is fools gold, IMO. And if you can maximize the value of your two picks and get something similar if not equal to Roy and Rudy Gay out of it. I think you're set. But luck is involved there as well. And the last time I checked, the likliehood of us acquiring Williams and Hibbert is small. Williams has something fairly larger on his mind, market wise. And I think Indiana will match any offer on the table for Hibbert. They would be stupid not too. And the picks will prob be closer to the equalization of maybe a Gay and Patrick O'Bryant. Using the 2006 Draft as an example here.

 

[barfo]

I might be the only one here, but I'd be happy with a first round and out next year. Better than this year...

barfo

- posted from my TRS80 using a 300 baud modem -

 

[Denny Crane]

Trade #6 and a player to move up to #4 or better.

Bulls failed to trade Donyell Marshall and #7 for #4, who turned out to be Wade. Bulls gambled he'd fall to them at 7.

#7 gets you a Hinrich or Deng. #9 gets you Noah. #3 gets you Ben Gordon. Just saying'...

 

[RR7]

I am looking through on DX at their RSCI(Recruiting Services Consensus Index). It pools together a few different recruiting sites, as opposed to JUST using Rivals for top 10 HS guys. It goes back to 1998, with varying services added and dropped out through the years. Still, it gives a broad view across different sites of the top HS guys for each year.
1998:
1.Al Harrington
2.Rashard Lewis
3.Korleone Young
4.Dan Gadzuric
5.Stromile Swift
6.Ronald Curry
7.Jaron Rush
8.Joel Przybilla
9.Quentin Richardson
10.Jason Capel

1999:
1.Donnell Harvey
2.Keith Bogans
3.Dermarr Johnson
4.Jay Williams
5.Joe Forte
6.Marvin Stone
7.Lavell Blanchard
8.Brett Nelson
9.Carlos Boozer
10.Jonathan Bender

2000:
1.Zach Randolph
2.Eddie Griffin
3.Darius Miles
4.Gerald Wallace
5.Jason Parker
6.Marcus Taylor
7.Deshawn Stevenson
8.Chris Duhon
9.Caron Butler
10.Mario Austin

2001:
1.Eddy Curry
2.Kevin Tolbert
3.Dajuan Wagner
4.Tyson Chandler
5.Ousmane Cisse
6.Kwame Brown
7.Julius Hodge
8.Desagana Diop
9.Rick Rickert
10.David Lee

2002:
1.Amare Stoudamire
2.Carmelo Anthony
3.Raymond Felton
4.Rashard Mccants
5.Lenny Cooke
6.Chris Bosh
7.Jason Fraser
8.Paul Davis
9.Shelden Williams
10.Sean May

2003:
1.Lebron James
2.Luol Deng
3.Shannon Brown
4.Ndubi Ebi
5.Charlie Villanueva
6.Kendrick Perkins
7.James Lang
8.Chris Paul
9.David Padgett
10.Brian Butch

2004:
1.Dwight Howard
2.Shaun Livingston
3.Al Jefferson
4.Josh Smith
5.Rudy Gay
6.Sebastian Telfair
7.Marvin Williams
8.JR Smith
9.Robert Swift
10.Malik Hairston

2005:
1.Gerald Green
2.Josh McRoberts
3.Monta Ellis
4.Andray Blatche
5.Martell Webster
6.Tyler Hansborough
7.Lou Williams
8.Julian Wright
9.Richard Hendrix
10.Mario Chalmers

2006:
1.Greg Oden
2.Kevin Durant
3.Brandan Wright
4.Spencer Hawes
5.Ty Lawson
6.Thaddeus Young
7.Chase Budinger
8.Wayne Ellington
9.Brook Lopez
10.Paul Harris

2007:
1.OJ Mayo
2.Kevin Love
3.Eric Gordon
4.Michael Beasley
5.Derrick Rose
6.Kyle Singler
7.Bill Walker
8.Jerryd Bayless
9.Donte Green
10.JJ Hickson

2008:
1.Brandon jennings
2.Jrue Holiday
3.Tyreke Evans
4.Samardo Samuels
5.Demar Derozan
6.Greg Monroe
7.Al-Farouq Aminu
8.BJ Mullens
9.Devin Ebanks
10.Ed Davis

2009:
1.Derrick Favors
2.John Wall
3.Demarcus Cousins
4.John Henson
5.Avery Bradley
6.Xavier Henry
7.Lance Stephenson
8.Renardo Sidney
9.Kenny Boynton
10.Abdul Gaddy

2010:
1.Harrison Barnes
2.Jared Sullinger
3.Kyrie Irving
4.Josh Selby
5.Brandon Knight
6.Tobias Harris
7.Perry Jones
8.Enes Kanter
9.Will Barton
10.Terrence Jones

2011:
1.Anthony Davis
2.Austin Rivers
3.Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
4.Bradley Beal
5.Quincy Miller
6.James McAdoo
7.Marquis Teague
8.Adonis Thomas
9.LeBryan Nash
10.Myck Kabongo

 

[RR7]

Some notable NON Top 10 ranked players that went in the lottery.

Blake Griffin
Lamarcus Aldridge
Deron Williams
James Harden
Russel Westbrook
Dwyane Wade
Brandon Roy
Andre Iguodola
Joakim Noah
Joe Johnson
Andrew Bynum