POR needs to REBUILD not reload

[bigbailes]

looking through that list i found 7-9 "game changers," probably 10-15 really nice players, and 20 or so solid role players with decent careers.

 

[RR7]

looking through that list i found 7-9 "game changers," probably 10-15 really nice players, and 20 or so solid role players with decent careers.

And you think about it, excluding the last two years, that's out of 120 players. Roughly a third by your ranking are solid role player or above. That's not a great success rate. Not saying I'd take this route, or it'd fit,, but if you traded one for tyreke, and one for iguodola, you are getting 2 players that fit at least the minimum classification of solid role player. A 100% success rate.
There is SO much luck involved, all depends where you want your luck to lie.

 

[jlprk]

Take LA and one of your picks and move it for this years number one. No better to player to build your team around than a big man.

Anthony Davis is of Durant/Olajuwon quality. If we could get him for Aldridge, who is no centerpiece, we should leap at it and feel very lucky. We should initially offer Aldridge straight up, but be ready to throw in a pick.

 

[RedHotRollin]

Anthony Davis is of Durant/Olajuwon quality. If we could get him for Aldridge, who is no centerpiece, we should leap at it and feel very lucky. We should initially offer Aldridge straight up, but be ready to throw in a pick.

Anyway we can get your dude involved? The team could really use a 'closer' this off season.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

The only chance we have at Davis is by winning the lotto.

 

[jlprk]

Anyway we can get your dude involved? The team could really use a 'closer' this off season.

I've been divorced a long time, but not THAT long.

 

[RedHotRollin]

I've been divorced a long time, but not THAT long.

lmao.

Speaking of Trader Bob of course. Team could use some of his magic.

 

[jlprk]

Sounded like a threesome.. I wish some pro-Whitsitt banners had appeared where Paul Allen could see them during games. Allen may think the town's still against Whitsitt, and I think Portland is now (at least mildly, maybe enthusiastically?) in favor of Bringing Back Bob.

 

[RedHotRollin]

Sounded like a threesome.. I wish some pro-Whitsitt banners had appeared where Paul Allen could see them during games. Allen may think the town's still against Whitsitt, and I think Portland is now (at least mildly, maybe enthusiastically?) in favor of Bringing Back Bob.

lol.

The team hasn't had a closer since Trader Bob. When they got rid of him when they did, they didn't really need to. All Paul had to tell him was, business won't be the same as usual. We''ll be working within these parameters. No more blank checks. No more questionable characters and you will bring in a coach that has a sense of leadership. Now go get the job done. The dude is smart and he can structure deals in his sleep.

 

[RedHotRollin]

Sounded like a threesome.. I wish some pro-Whitsitt banners had appeared where Paul Allen could see them during games. Allen may think the town's still against Whitsitt, and I think Portland is now (at least mildly, maybe enthusiastically?) in favor of Bringing Back Bob.

Oh and isolate his work to basketball instead of 41 other business ventures.

 

[jlprk]

You are so right! I'm bringing my dude!

Pritchard had it so easy. Miller managed the business and the arena to make a profit. Pritchard did only 2 things, scouting and media public relations. When he complained he was very low-paid ($800,000 per year) I thought, you should be, you do 5% of Whitsitt's job.

Allen had wisely redesigned the GM job to please the Oregonian. This board criticizes how weak the new GM will be, but I think that in this media environment, the group decision method is best. Put all the scouts with an accountant and a CBA expert lawyer in a room and the most dominant gets the title of GM.

Anyway, you're kind of saying, Allen should have made those changes but retained Whitsitt as the focus of the group.

 

[RedHotRollin]

You are so right! I'm bringing my dude!

Pritchard had it so easy. Miller managed the business and the arena to make a profit. Pritchard did only 2 things, scouting and media public relations. When he complained he was very low-paid ($800,000 per year) I thought, you should be, you do 5% of Whitsitt's job.

Allen had wisely redesigned the GM job to please the Oregonian. This board criticizes how weak the new GM will be, but I think that in this media environment, the group decision method is best. Put all the scouts with an accountant and a CBA expert lawyer in a room and the most dominant gets the title of GM.

Anyway, you're kind of saying, Allen should have made those changes but retained Whitsitt as the focus of the group.

Aww..yeah.

Trader Bob was highly competent with everything he did. He just about closed the deal on a championship caliber team. All the while, closing the deal on the Seahawks from being moved. Closing the deal on Mike Holmgren. Managing 41 other businesses. He had a skewed outlook on how to build a team. But those were correctable, had Paul told him the way the business was going to be run. Bob didn't need to go. Bob needed a new set of rules and parameters. And he needed a less work load. And focus strictly on basketball. Whether that ego of his would have allowed that or not, I don't know. But, I think he would have flourished no matter what was asked of him. He worked under a similar set of parameters under Barry Ackerley and the Sonics and built a winner there too.

 

[jlprk]

He built Qwest Field. He sneaked a vote through, when the majority of voters opposed. It was brilliant. Even I was against public financing, and everyone was amazed after the results came in....His trick? He had Allen fund a special election, so that hardly anyone voted because it was the only issue on the ballot. Bob Whitsitt was BRILLIANT.

I won't even get into how the Sonics were dead under Lenny Wilkens, came alive under Whitsitt and went to the Finals, then after he left for Portland, the Sonics withered and died. Trader Bob kept bringing in a new outstanding player every year without losing the ones already there.

 

[RedHotRollin]

He built Qwest Field. He sneaked a vote through, when the majority of voters opposed. It was brilliant. Even I was against public financing, and everyone was amazed after the results came in....His trick? He had Allen fund a special election, so that hardly anyone voted because it was the only issue on the ballot. Bob Whitsitt was BRILLIANT.

I won't even get into how the Sonics were dead under Lenny Wilkens, came alive under Whitsitt and went to the Finals, then after he left for Portland, the Sonics withered and died. Trader Bob kept bringing in a new outstanding player every year without losing the ones already there.

Amazing. I always admired him. And I think he is exactly what this organization needs going into this off season. He gets results.

 

[jlprk]

Forgot to mention that he built the Rose Garden, too. Of course, not literally, but he managed the process of taking bids, contractors, subcontractors, etc. From start to finish.

How many top dogs have managed construction of stadii in 2 major sports? I can't think of any.

 

[RedHotRollin]

Forgot to mention that he built the Rose Garden, too. Of course, not literally, but he managed the process of taking bids, contractors, subcontractors, etc. From start to finish.

How many top dogs have managed construction of stadii in 2 major sports? I can't think of any.

I know he was instrumental in the opening of the Rose Garden but I thought Marshall Glickman had more to do with the building of the Rose Garden? He and Jody Patton.

 

[jlprk]

I don't know. It was so complicated that those 3 and probably several other unnamed builders were key players. Using Allen's money, his sister Jody probably hired several builders far more experienced than herself, Whitsitt, or Glickman (the last was age 34-36 then).

 

[Blaze01]

Its not only possible, but its GENERALLY how NBA champions are made. Very quickly with big bold moves. Either that or a top 3 pick (even that generally takes a few years to blossom).

You do realize that what you are advocating has FAR LESS odds of occuring than finding such a player in the draft, don't you?

Shaq to MIA, KG to BOS, Lebron to MIA...

These are the kinds of big start\top tier talent you are talking about...heck add Chris Paul to that list if you want to, but it doesn't change the fact that the odds of 1) these types of players changing teams and 2) POR being one of those teams...is a miniscule percentage....

Don't you see the disconnect here?

Yeah, getting a KG, SHaq, or Lebron in their prime or close to it will fast track your team to NBA title contender status (or make them much much better)....But you would have POR mgmt bank on that strategy those slim odds instead of the draft...

I think that is a huge mistake...because in all likelyhood you are not going to get that player....and the only names being thrown out here are 2nd to 3rd tier players, NOT the type of players who turn this team into an "instant" NBA title contender....

The odds ARE better that POR finds that player through the draft than hoping for a miracle acquisition...I'd rather take a chance with a player in the draft...young & cost controlled than for a mid tier vet on in all likelyhood a big contract.

Certainly you wouldn't view Kyle Lowry, Marcin Gortat, Tyreke Evans or Andre Iguodala as the type of players that make POR an instant contender, do you? Please tell me you wouldn't bank POR hopes on THAT?

I'd rather take a risk of missing on a player in the drat than settling for mediocrity b\c your "pie in the sky" big name player acquisition plan never came to fruition....POR needs to try and be a great team not settle for being a mediocre one..

 

[Blaze01]

And it seems like what you prefer is a team that you can lie to yourself with, and we can all jerk ourselves off for the next 4 years about the amazing potential and unknown of someone, and how our youngster will almost certainly hit his full potential and then some. Because it seems like when I have seen these fans happiest, that is what we had. A super young team with unproven talent that the fans could tell themselves would undoubtedly hit their full potential.

lol...What would you call the last 4 years? Oh yippeeee, we made the playoffs and got bounced in the first round. How many 1st round and outs does it take to be labeled "jerking yourself"? 4? 5? 8?

I don't necessarily blame POR mgmt for the drfating of Roy & Oden...certainly they ought to review thier drafting process and think twice about players with injury histories...but barring career ending injury to Roy and likely career ending injuries to Oden, they had put together a good team with a potentially very good core 3 players...and good role players...and they did it THROUGH the draft....Sometimes luck is not on your side, and that is the case here...It doesn't mean you give up and then just settle for mediocrity...You have to start over again...Such is life, you don't waive the white flag, you suck it up and climb that mountain again (build that roster up)...

The good news is you do have one player (LA), and you have the wherewithall (two top draft picks, FA cap space) to try and add another 1-2 of those players...So it doesn't necessarily have to be a complete rebuild...

I find it interesting that you think trading away two top picks...two good (6) to decent (11) chances to acquire a top tier player...for mid tier talent and ASSURED mediocrity is not lying to yourself? What are you satisified with mediocrity, 1st round and outs? Nice to see you have set such high standards for your sports franchises....with fans like you, why does mgmt need to even try and compete for a title...

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

You do realize that what you are advocating has FAR LESS odds of occuring than finding such a player in the draft, don't you?

Shaq to MIA, KG to BOS, Lebron to MIA...

These are the kinds of big start\top tier talent you are talking about...heck add Chris Paul to that list if you want to, but it doesn't change the fact that the odds of 1) these types of players changing teams and 2) POR being one of those teams...is a miniscule percentage....

Don't you see the disconnect here?

Yeah, getting a KG, SHaq, or Lebron in their prime or close to it will fast track your team to NBA title contender status (or make them much much better)....But you would have POR mgmt bank on that strategy those slim odds instead of the draft...

I think that is a huge mistake...because in all likelyhood you are not going to get that player....and the only names being thrown out here are 2nd to 3rd tier players, NOT the type of players who turn this team into an "instant" NBA title contender....

The odds ARE better that POR finds that player through the draft than hoping for a miracle acquisition...I'd rather take a chance with a player in the draft...young & cost controlled than for a mid tier vet on in all likelyhood a big contract.

Certainly you wouldn't view Kyle Lowry, Marcin Gortat, Tyreke Evans or Andre Iguodala as the type of players that make POR an instant contender, do you? Please tell me you wouldn't bank POR hopes on THAT?

I'd rather take a risk of missing on a player in the drat than settling for mediocrity b\c your "pie in the sky" big name player acquisition plan never came to fruition....POR needs to try and be a great team not settle for being a mediocre one..

There were solid rumors of us acquiring Paul Pierce or hell, even Chris Paul. Still a chance to go at Deron Williams for what I listed before. Shoot, now we have people not wanting Carmello Anthony b/c they believe so much in Batum and draft picks. You see the problem here? Its not a willingness NOT to do it, but some weird notion you need to develop your own players you acquire and they will turn into something that will click after several years. This has what Portland has been doing forever and it hasn't worked.

Sure, Iggy, Tyreke Evans, etc won't make Portland an instant contender, like I stated it takes a top superstar player in the league to do that. Generally you can only trade or draft top 3 for those. But, compared to what historically comes out of the draft picks outside of the top 3, they will contribute more than those picks ever will. Young and cost controlled is another term for a "project", which like I said, doesn't usually pan out. Any of those players listed have a high probability to make Portland way better than what would happen versus using the draft picks.

 

[Blaze01]

Paul Pierce at age 34 is not the answer, nor is Steve Nash at age 38....

You mention Chris Paul as an option, but he was never going to come here...and he certainly wasn't going to stay if POR paid whatever the price to get him here....Besides POR did not have enough talent\assets to acquire him at the time anyway...Batum and a 1st round pick wasn't going to cut it...It just wasn't a realistic option..

You can mention guys like that all you want as why POR didn't go get them, but your not being realistic to the fact that POR 1) Didn't have the assets to acquire them in the 1st place and 2) the guy didn't want to come here anyway....

Not to mention trading away a bunch of assets for a guy who has no intention of being here and you hope you can CONVINCE to stay is way too risky

I like Carmelo....I would consider trading for him...but they are going to want a lot....both picks, Batum to start...Is he worth it? Yeah, possibly...probably a better fit next to LA than he is next to Amare...I agree, POR should inquire about him, but again I don't really expect NY to trade him away...He had a bad year, lot of bad press, but they are not going to trade away a core piece a year after they got him...I think that is a fishing expedition....

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Pierce @ 34 and Nash @ 38...go for it. Try to open a quick window, and then deal with the repercussions later after they retire. You'll have that cap room again. So we give up replaceable talent, big freaking deal. The thing I realized that taking 3-5 years to acquire young players and let them develop rarely works outside of getting top 3 picks in the draft (i.e. OKC...hell, even Portland with ROY/ODEN/LMA barring the injuries). So you just need to be in constant flux and trade for talent and not hold too much player loyalty.

The thing is if the knicks aren't clicking, they have to do it. You can't wait around and wait for shit to click if it isn't, you have to move fast in the league, otherwise they will be stuck in cap space hell again for multiple seasons.

As far as trading for mid-level talent, you still need those guys. Important part of winning, you just need that + superstars. Young players rarely contribute.