OT Portland and surrounding area Homeless Situation

[SlyPokerDog]

I think the gentrification of St Johns, NoPo, and NEP is directly related to the increase in homelessness.

Also, it didn't help that we turned most of the flop houses into boutique hotels downtown.

 

[Phatguysrule]

And yet here you are avoiding “my” thread…

please do. You have made your opinion more than clear snd you cant handle that some disagree so you continue to come in the thread and yell louder and call everything else googlywhatever. Lol.

You are selling your proposal so masterfully!!!


Lol.

As much as you'd love for me to avoid your thread and stop proving you wrong I've already said that won't happen.

The housing first policies I've suggested are unscathed thus far, as you haven't been able to point to any evidence based weaknesses that outweigh the benefits.

The reality is that the policy addresses your concerns.

I'm sorry that frustrates you.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

You're right - there isn't a huge supply of vacant rentals.

However it most definitely is a MUCH better financial choice to keep a rental vacant, than to fill it with someone who will destroy it. The cost of a bad rental far outstrips the benefit of having it rented.

exactly, but lets force law abiding home owners to give up their land to put self destructive people on it.
Great answer.

As much as you'd love for me to avoid your thread and stop proving you wrong I've already said that won't happen.

The housing first policies I've suggested are unscathed thus far, as you haven't been able to point to any evidence based weaknesses that outweigh the benefits.

The reality is that the policy addresses your concerns.

I'm sorry that frustrates you.

so you ARE a liar too. Good to know.
You don't frustrate me at all i already told you. You are comedy. You are the one that said you given me too much time but yet here you are responding to everything i say, giving me more time.
Ohhh the irony….and hypocrisy.

Seems you are the one who cant handle anyone thinking differently than you. you result to insults aNd do not look into the info provided as a rebuttal. facts.
Let me know when you are done with your tantrum and ill see if i want to take your posts seriously.
Sorry if the truth hurts.

 

[CJ_is_Gone]

It doesn't need to be a rental unit. Just an empty spacey that could be a rental unit. Could be a house.

I've seen many houses sit empty for years before they are remodeled and put back on the market for rent. It happens all the time. If you buy it at auction it doesn't hurt you much to take your time to get it on the market. So large companies buy up what they can and many sit until they get around to fixing them.

There are 16,000,000 empty units in the US and only 500,000 homeless. Get all of them in homes and there would still be over 15,000,000 empty units.

That doesn't even include converting office space into residential.

Just need to change up the incentives to get more homes into the hands of people and make sitting on vacant space more painful.

It's obvious that you aren't in the real estate industry.

These 'large corporations' are not just buying homes at auction and just letting them sit around. Frequently, most of the delappitated homes have title issues or significant liens that make it difficult to do much with it.

And to change office/retail space into residential.... That costs a $#!* load of money. In a few RARE cases, it can make financial sense. In the vast majority of cases - it's not economical to do so. It's better just to scrap the existing building and start fresh.

I really struggle with people who think they have the 'easy answer' to every solution. This pompous approach underestimates the complexities of life.

 

[Chris Craig]

Many in portland chose homelessness over joining the system. Thats fine. Until they break laws to support themselves, which happens every day.
Most criminals are not caught in the act. There needs to be another solution than pulling cops off the streets making it even harder to catch criminals in the act. This is a way more complicated situation in Portland than to just say there are homeless and there are criminals.

Most homeless in Portland, are criminals.
Id put money on there being a good percentage of warrants out for many homeless in Portland.

Some do choose to be homeless.

I respectfully disagree with most being criminals with warrants out for them. I think that is an unfounded claim.

Many that choose to be homeless, openly use the resources downtown and around town...i.e. shelters and places that do feeds/give out clothes and vouchers for things.

Some are addicts. It doesn't make them criminals.

 

[Chris Craig]

we have them.
We dont need to put them in houses for months. We can assess their needs within hours and send them directly there. Detox, jail, wherever. Then take the ones left and let them in shelters with a mandated job placement program with an obligation to start paying rent for the shelter after six months of employment if they don't want to move out on their own.

You can bring a horse to water but you can't force it to drink.

 

[Chris Craig]

If someone has an addiction that makes their behavior negatively impact others around them with theft snd or violence, i don't care about comfortable they are im said facility until they can become productive members of society again.
When do we care more a out the comfortability of those around these people instead of these peoples comfort?

Some addictions lead to theft and violence sure.

That is the problem. Not caring. Not treating them like human beings.

 

[Chris Craig]

The desperation felt and/or exhibit, does not compare to what other countries worst areas are. Put the rich aside. Were talking a out the poorest of poor areas. We are not near the top. Not even close.
Go google earth neighborhoods in the Philippines and tell me we are as bad as they are.
We don't have near the poverty scale as some and yet we have way more opportunities for those in poverty im this country to grt out of compared to most other countries.
The lack of work ethic aNd responsibilities of individuals should not be subsidized by hard working tax payers.

I never attempted to compare the two. I simply said there is desperation here. And, yes there are more resources here, so why hasn't there been a better outcome?

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Some do choose to be homeless.

I respectfully disagree with most being criminals with warrants out for them. I think that is an unfounded claim.

Many that choose to be homeless, openly use the resources downtown and around town...i.e. shelters and places that do feeds/give out clothes and vouchers for things.

Some are addicts. It doesn't make them criminals.

Then we shall respectfully disagree. Too bad some others cant do that without insulting opposing views. Kudos to you!


The thing is the addition pushes poor decision making and the addiction causes them to break laws to support said addition. There are many studies directly relating theft crime with addicted criminals.
so when one says I'm no harm, i just want to live off the grid and do drugs, the path they are taking is obvious.

 

[Chris Craig]

@BlazerBender @Phatguysrule enough.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Some addictions lead to theft and violence sure.

That is the problem. Not caring. Not treating them like human beings.

Why care for those who actively don't care for me and want to tear down what ive worked hard for?
How can you expect anyone to care for those types?

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

You can bring a horse to water but you can't force it to drink.

exactly. And after ive brought them water i can no longer control them and they will reap what they sew.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

I never attempted to compare the two. I simply said there is desperation here. And, yes there are more resources here, so why hasn't there been a better outcome?

Because more people here want the country torn down. Because they think capitalism is evil. So they fight and push back.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Some addictions lead to theft and violence sure.

That is the problem. Not caring. Not treating them like human beings.

I have lived the life, directly and indirectly. Its possible to care but not enable. Its possible to treat all human beings with respect, but draw lines as to what is acceptable behavior when referring to fitting in peaceably with society.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

It's obvious that you aren't in the real estate industry.

These 'large corporations' are not just buying homes at auction and just letting them sit around. Frequently, most of the delappitated homes have title issues or significant liens that make it difficult to do much with it.

And to change office/retail space into residential.... That costs a $#!* load of money. In a few RARE cases, it can make financial sense. In the vast majority of cases - it's not economical to do so. It's better just to scrap the existing building and start fresh.

I really struggle with people who think they have the 'easy answer' to every solution. This pompous approach underestimates the complexities of life.

Thats just a bunch of goobleygarbage!. You are simply callous and uncaring!!!!

 

[Phatguysrule]

It's obvious that you aren't in the real estate industry.

These 'large corporations' are not just buying homes at auction and just letting them sit around. Frequently, most of the delappitated homes have title issues or significant liens that make it difficult to do much with it.

And to change office/retail space into residential.... That costs a $#!* load of money. In a few RARE cases, it can make financial sense. In the vast majority of cases - it's not economical to do so. It's better just to scrap the existing building and start fresh.

I really struggle with people who think they have the 'easy answer' to every solution. This pompous approach underestimates the complexities of life.

I didn't say it was an easy solution, I simply said we should look at changing the incentives. We have a ton of empty space and a bunch of homeless people. The solutions are there, we just need to be serious about addressing them. Zoning is another issue. One we could look at Japan's mixed use zoning and other countries for examples of ways to help.

The point is, the homeless are a result of a flawed system. We can't solve it unless we address that system.

 

[yankeesince59]

It's obvious that you aren't in the real estate industry.

I really struggle with people who think they have the 'easy answer' to every solution. This pompous approach underestimates the complexities of life.

^^^This !

 

[Chris Craig]

Why care for those who actively don't care for me and want to tear down what ive worked hard for?
How can you expect anyone to care for those types?

You can still are for them on some level. Respect that they are human beings. Walk a mile in their shoes.

 

[Chris Craig]

Because more people here want the country torn down. Because they think capitalism is evil. So they fight and push back.

There are people with homes who want that. There are people on both sides who want it for different reasons. But, most people are reasonable. Most people don't want our country torn down. They just want change because the struggle is real.

 

[Chris Craig]

exactly. And after ive brought them water i can no longer control them and they will reap what they sew.

No, but once you have brought them water and shelter, they will be more willing to listen, to trust that change can happen for the better in their lives. I think so many people who are homeless are afraid to try because they fear landing right back where they are. So, they think why try? Given them a reason to try. Give them hope.

 

[Phatguysrule]

No, but once you have brought them water and shelter, they will be more willing to listen, to trust that change can happen for the better in their lives. I think so many people who are homeless are afraid to try because they fear landing right back where they are. So, they think why try? Given them a reason to try. Give them hope.

And we have ample evidence that this works to clean up our public spaces and put more people on the path to prosperity (and saves more money) than the predominant solutions we've tried here in the US.

 

[PDXFonz]

Man it’s gotten much worse even in the last 4 years. But really in the last 10-15 it just became something else entirely. It’s really spilled out of Downtown and into the suburbs now.

It’s just…everywhere.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

There are people with homes who want that. There are people on both sides who want it for different reasons. But, most people are reasonable. Most people don't want our country torn down. They just want change because the struggle is real.

But its the vocal minority everyone is now bending over backwards for. And that is those who want it torn down. Even some in this forum think the only way for long lasting change is to tear it all down.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

No, but once you have brought them water and shelter, they will be more willing to listen, to trust that change can happen for the better in their lives. I think so many people who are homeless are afraid to try because they fear landing right back where they are. So, they think why try? Given them a reason to try. Give them hope.

Its hard for me to understand this. As a self motivated person, ive never had issues with hope because i believe i create my own hope through perseverance, discipline and hard work.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

You can still are for them on some level. Respect that they are human beings. Walk a mile in their shoes.

Who said there isn't caring or respect for human beings that are homeless?

Again. We can care without enabling. Matter of fact, i subscribe to not enabling shows more caring than enabling. If you want improvement but allow enablers or enabling behavior to occur, that isnt caring. Caring is stopping the enabling to enact actual improvement.

People need to accept more tough love.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

People need to accept more tough love.

Wouldn't "tough love" be living on the streets?

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Wouldn't "tough love" be living on the streets?

All depends on how they got there and what is required to get off the streets.

 

[Chris Craig]

Who said there isn't caring or respect for human beings that are homeless?

Again. We can care without enabling. Matter of fact, i subscribe to not enabling shows more caring than enabling. If you want improvement but allow enablers or enabling behavior to occur, that isnt caring. Caring is stopping the enabling to enact actual improvement.

People need to accept more tough love.

I'm not talking about enabling. I believe tough love can be a good thing.

But, we have to approach this situation from a place of compassion. Not from a place of law and order your going to do this or else. It won't be very effective to do that.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Who said there isn't caring or respect for human beings that are homeless?

Again. We can care without enabling. Matter of fact, i subscribe to not enabling shows more caring than enabling. If you want improvement but allow enablers or enabling behavior to occur, that isnt caring. Caring is stopping the enabling to enact actual improvement.

People need to accept more tough love.

Can you share an example of a city or country solving a homelessness problem using your proposed methodology?

 

[Chris Craig]

Its hard for me to understand this. As a self motivated person, ive never had issues with hope because i believe i create my own hope through perseverance, discipline and hard work.

I'm a self motivated person too, but maybe until you have been there at the bottom, on the streets with nothing, you can't understand it.

These people are in a place where that seems impossible and therefore it is futile to try.