Pot Vote: Legalizing Marijuana Could Be On 2010 Ballot

[hasoos]

Well MaxieP I hate to tell you this, but your definition of long term use and some supposed side effects is pretty bunk IMO. Lets put it this way. I know in excess of 10 people that have used Marijuana daily(approximately) for at least 20 years, most of them probably more near 25+. Most of them are now folks that earn 65k+ a year(some over 100k a year), have families to the extent that they wanted them (some wanted kids, some not), and all are people I consider very successful in life. The problem is what your preconceived notions of a pot smoker is. What is it, Spikoli off of hard times at Ridgemont High? Get real. Smoking Pot is no more serious than drinking a Martini after work. Your argument earlier about how Alchohol is already legal, so why legalize weed is bunk. Weed is a different effect, and many people highly (pun intended) prefer one to the other, and this country is all about freedom isn't it? Let folks choose their own path. Not just "your chosen path".

 

[MARIS61]

Law enforcement could then focus on the real problem, Methamphetamine.

Meth is pretty far down the ladder of biggest abuse problems for drugs, in numbers of addicts anyway.

Abuse of alcohol tops the list, then tobacco, then legally prescribed drugs, followed by stolen or illegally prescribed drugs, then waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down the ladder you have street-made amphetamines, barbituates, cocaine, crack, ecstacy, PCP and meth.

Marijuana is too innocuous to be considered in this company.

 

[Shapecity]

I assure you Libertarians think it should be legal.

For at least 40 years of my life, I've believed that drugs, alcohol, tobacco, etc., are medical problems and not legal ones. If the government spent the money on ads, like they did with tobacco, the harder more dangerous drugs would see less use.

I have smoked pot, but not in many years. I have no beef with people who do, it's their life to live.

There are a lot of myths about pot that make it seem harmless - it is harmful. Side effects off the top of my head: sterility, stupidity, and it most certainly can cause cancer. These aren't reasons to make it illegal.

Victimless crimes should have no penalty.

How does weed make one stupid?

 

[MARIS61]

In terms of effects on society, if I had to choose, I'd choose Marijuana. But anyone can make booze from what you can purchase at a grocery store, where getting marijuana seeds is tougher. Hence, if one is going to be legal and the other illegal, marijuana is the easier drug to control.

Also, since alcohol is already legal, I see no reason to expand the number of drugs available to the American people.

So your decision is based purely on your personal addiction to alcohol, and hypocrisy.

 

[MARIS61]

There are a lot of myths about pot that make it seem harmless - it is harmful. Side effects off the top of my head: sterility, stupidity, and it most certainly can cause cancer.

Time to get your myths straight:

http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/

Top Five Marijuana Myths

Marijuana Can Cause Permanent Mental Illness
Marijuana Is Highly Addictive
Marijuana Is More Potent Today Than In The Past
Marijuana Offenses Are Not Severely Punished
Marijuana Is More Damaging to the Lungs Than Tobacco
There have been no reports of lung cancer related solely to marijuana, and in a large study presented to the American Thoracic Society in 2006, even heavy users of smoked marijuana were found not to have any increased risk of lung cancer. Unlike heavy tobacco smokers, heavy marijuana smokers exhibit no obstruction of the lung's small airway. That indicates that people will not develop emphysema from smoking marijuana.

More Marijuana Myths:

Marijuana Has No Medicinal Value
Marijuana Is a Gateway Drug
Marijuana's Harms Have Been Proved Scientifically
Marijuana Causes an Amotivational Syndrome
Marijuana Policy in the Netherlands is a Failure
Marijuana Kills Brain Cells
Marijuana Impairs Memory and Cognition
Marijuana Causes Crime
Marijuana Interferes With Male and Female Sex Hormones
Marijuana Use During Pregnancy Damages the Fetus
Marijuana Use Impairs the Immune System
Marijuana's Active Ingredient, THC, Gets Trapped in Body Fat
Marijuana Use is a Major Cause Of Highway Accidents
Marijuana Related Hospital Emergencies Are Increasing, Particularly Among Youth
Marijuana Use Can Be Prevented

 

[ehizzy3]

How does weed make one stupid?

it doesnt.

 

[Haakzilla]

!!!

 

[Colonel Ronan]

Marijuana Can Cause Permanent Mental Illness

Not directly, but it can when people are stupid enough to smoke out of aluminum foil.

Marijuana Is Highly Addictive

In the documentary The Union, they talk about how cocaine, cigarettes, and even coffee are more addictive than marijuana.

By the way, The Union is a very good documentary on the myths and history behind marijuana. Check it out when you have the chance, the full version is on Video Google.

Marijuana Offenses Are Not Severely Punished

Worst of the lot. There are more kids in rehab for "marijuana abuse" than all drug related abusers combined.Want to know the main reason? If the judge says to you, "Six months of probation with rehab or spend some time in jail," Which would you take?

Marijuana Is More Damaging to the Lungs Than Tobacco

I remember when I was younger I attended one of the D.A.R.E. assemblies (anti-drug program) and the speaker told us that one joint is as damaging as a whole pack of cigarettes.

There have been no reports of lung cancer related solely to marijuana, and in a large study presented to the American Thoracic Society in 2006, even heavy users of smoked marijuana were found not to have any increased risk of lung cancer. Unlike heavy tobacco smokers, heavy marijuana smokers exhibit no obstruction of the lung's small airway. That indicates that people will not develop emphysema from smoking marijuana.

Denny, marijuana most certainly doesn't cause lung cancer... Or any sort of cancer. The only damage way you're damaging your lungs when you smoke is by the normal properties of smoke. It has nothing to do with the plant itself.

Marijuana's Harms Have Been Proved Scientifically
Marijuana Kills Brain Cells

There was an infamous experiment that was released by the government in the 80s (I believe) that tested the effects of marijuana on monkeys. They discovered that marijuana kills braincells. Of course, they published this and now most of the people in the world believe that marijuana can literally destroy your brain.

Well, this is how they conducted their experiment... They would strap a breathing apparatus on the monkey's face and pump it with weed with any oxygen going into their lungs. They pumped something around a pound within ten minutes. What happens when the human brain doesn't get enough oxygen? Braincells die. Funny that.

Marijuana Causes an Amotivational Syndrome

Yes, if you're lazy to begin with.

Marijuana Policy in the Netherlands is a Failure

Which is why it's still around...?

Marijuana Causes Crime

Do you ever hear anyone smoking weed, going home and beating their wife? No. What about with drinking?

Marijuana Interferes With Male and Female Sex Hormones

This is definitely true. I've had some of the best sex when I was stoned.

Marijuana Use is a Major Cause Of Highway Accidents

LOL!

Marijuana Related Hospital Emergencies Are Increasing, Particularly Among Youth

Over-eating?

 

[Denny Crane]

How does weed make one stupid?

it doesnt.

I would say the guys who crash airplanes or cars or trains while stoned suggest they were stupid at the time.

And yes, it does cause cancer exactly because you smoke it. Most people don't smoke anywhere near as much as they do tobacco so it's assumed to be less harmful.

I tend to take WebMD to be a serious source for medical information.

http://www.webmd.com/cancer/news/20090623/marijuana-smoke-linked-to-cancer

Marijuana Smoke Linked to Cancer
Scientists Say Marijuana Smoke Damages DNA

By Kelli Miller Stacy
WebMD Health News Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD

June 23, 2009 -- Smoking pot causes cell damage that could make a person more likely to develop cancer, researchers report.

Scientists at the University of Leicester have discovered that marijuana (cannabis) smoke alters DNA, the genetic material located in cells of the human body. Some forms of DNA damage can lead to cancer.

Many studies have shown that tobacco smoke damages DNA in a way that boosts risk for lung and other cancers, but until now, it's been unclear whether cannabis smoke could do the same. Of particular concern is a cancer-causing chemical called acetaldehyde, which is found in both tobacco and marijuana smoke. Using new chemistry techniques, study researchers showed that the chemical, when present in marijuana smoke, caused DNA damage in a laboratory setting.

The discovery suggests that marijuana smoke may be as harmful, or perhaps even more toxic, than tobacco smoke. In fact, study researchers say that smoking three to four marijuana cigarettes a day causes as much airway damage as smoking 20 or more cigarettes a day.

"These results provide evidence for the DNA-damaging potential of cannabis smoke," the researchers write, "implying that the consumption of cannabis cigarettes may be detrimental to human health with the possibility to initiate cancer development."

The findings appear in this month's issue of Chemical Research in Toxicology.

 

[Colonel Ronan]

Wow, could that passage be any more detailed?

 

[Haakzilla]

Wow, could that passage be any more detailed?

...I don't know, but "I tend to take WebMD to be a serious source for medical information."

 

[Denny Crane]

...I don't know, but "I tend to take WebMD to be a serious source for medical information."

Well, I don't think they are advocating legalization or that it be illegal, just reporting on the research.

There are a few articles on WebMD about benefits of pot for various ailments, as well. Which goes to show that like any drug, there are benefits and side effects and it's up to us all to weigh the latter vs. the former.

(Even caffeine is a drug)

 

[Blazer_Hippie]

Sweet...that wacky Paga G thread lead me to OT...which I avoid...and this thread...I usually enjoy these OT types of arguments in person so I can physically "persuade" people when I get too pissed off... anyways...LEGALIZE IT!

 

[Colonel Ronan]

Sweet...that wacky Paga G thread lead me to OT...which I avoid...and this thread...I usually enjoy these OT types of arguments in person so I can physically "persuade" people when I get too pissed off... anyways...LEGALIZE IT!

Straight to the point. Good lad.

 

[maxiep]

So do you think alcohol should be outlawed? Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that prohibition of alcohol could work as "well" as prohibition of marijuana (up to opinion how well prohibition of marijuana works). Do you feel that the social costs of alcohol also outweigh the benefits of greater freedoms? If not, why not?

I can't really answer a hypothetical, because the amount of control on a society one would have to control the manufacture of alcohol isn't conceivable to me. If one needed some magic pixie dust to make beer, wine or hard liquor alcoholic, I'd like to see that magic pixie dust controlled. I drink because I really love the taste of beer, wine and especially bourbon. If they made great booze non-alcoholic, I'd drink it.

I guess where I stand is that alcohol is enough if you need to mellow out or escape reality. If you have a medical issue, there are drugs that can be prescribed to you. I don't think smoking pot is something that should be ecouraged and increased access to marijuana would almost certainly lead to increased use, both in terms of numbers of people and the amount each person smokes.

For the record, I don't do marijuana and rarely drink (not due to moralistic reasons in either case). I just find this an interesting issue.

I find it interesting too, because this is one area where my policy ideas and my personal philosophy are at odds.

 

[maxiep]

Well MaxieP I hate to tell you this, but your definition of long term use and some supposed side effects is pretty bunk IMO. Lets put it this way. I know in excess of 10 people that have used Marijuana daily(approximately) for at least 20 years, most of them probably more near 25+. Most of them are now folks that earn 65k+ a year(some over 100k a year), have families to the extent that they wanted them (some wanted kids, some not), and all are people I consider very successful in life. The problem is what your preconceived notions of a pot smoker is. What is it, Spikoli off of hard times at Ridgemont High? Get real. Smoking Pot is no more serious than drinking a Martini after work. Your argument earlier about how Alchohol is already legal, so why legalize weed is bunk. Weed is a different effect, and many people highly (pun intended) prefer one to the other, and this country is all about freedom isn't it? Let folks choose their own path. Not just "your chosen path".

Thank you for your response with personal evidence. I'll choose not to offer specifics, but I assure you that I could offer the same number of anecdotal evidence of people who have lost their jobs, their families, their freedom and even their lives because they were enslaved by marijuana.

You seem to wish to label me some tightass who knows nothing about drugs and paints a broad brush on users. I might have a view contrary to many in here, but I assure you I've seen more than my share of drug use. I'll continue to post that we're going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[MARIS61]

Thank you for your response with personal evidence. I'll choose not to offer specifics, but I assure you that I could offer the same number of anecdotal evidence of people who have lost their jobs, their families, their freedom and even their lives because they were enslaved by marijuana.

Amazingly, I've never known, met, or heard about anyone, anywhere, ever, who lost their jobs, their families, their freedom and even their lives because they were enslaved by marijuana.

Not even a really bad made-up story about a fictional person.

This is the first statement I've ever encountered making such obviously untrue nonsensical assertions.

Your assurance is of no value to support such silliness.

I should add I have lost a Father-in-law and 3 very close life-long friends long before their time to the devastating effects of alcohol. Another friend is pretty far down that road to an agonizing death through alcoholism.

 

[maxiep]

Amazingly, I've never known, met, or heard about anyone, anywhere, ever, who lost their jobs, their families, their freedom and even their lives because they were enslaved by marijuana.

Not even a really bad made-up story about a fictional person.

This is the first statement I've ever encountered making such obviously untrue nonsensical assertions.

Your assurance is of no value to support such silliness.

I should add I have lost a Father-in-law and 3 very close life-long friends long before their time to the devastating effects of alcohol. Another friend is pretty far down that road to an agonizing death through alcoholism.

Thank you for your response. I'll credit you for logical consistency in all of your posts.

 

[Schilly]

Getting you're rocks off daily helps prevent Prostate cancer. I think there should be government aid involved.

 

[barfo]

Getting you're rocks off daily helps prevent Prostate cancer. I think there should be government aid involved.

You want government bureaucrats to jack you off? What about personal responsibility, man?
You let the government jack you off, that's a slippery slope and pretty soon they'll be wanting to make sure you have health care.

barfo

 

[DaRizzle]

You want government bureaucrats to jack you off? What about personal responsibility, man?

Can you guys reduce the size of quotes for use in sigs...there are too many I need to have and my sig is getting too long, lol

 

[maxiep]

Getting you're rocks off daily helps prevent Prostate cancer. I think there should be government aid involved.

We'll send Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi right over.

 

[Haakzilla]

maxie P, normally your not-so-popular opinions come with compelling arguments, but you seem to be out-of-touch with reality and way off-base with this one...I wonder why...would your stance be the same if cannabis was alcohol and alcohol was cannabis?!?!?!

 

[maxiep]

maxie P, normally your not-so-popular opinions come with compelling arguments, but you seem to be out-of-touch with reality and way off-base with this one...I wonder why...would your stance be the same if cannabis was alcohol and alcohol was cannabis?!?!?!

Like I said, we're going to have to agree to disagree. I don't know how I'm "out of touch with reality" or "way off base". Perhaps you could explain it to me.

I think the following things:

1. Legalization would result in lower prices and higher quantity, meaning more people would likely use marijuana. The fewer people using drugs, the better for society.

2. Drug use begets harder drug use. Marijuana has always been an intro drug to other more serious ones.

3. We have the ability to control the manufacture of marijuana we don't have with alcohol. The prohibition argument isn't the same.

4. Legalization of marijuana means it would be easier for kids to get their hands on.

5. Long term mental and physical effects are harmful to users.

6. More drug use has other impacts on society: less productivity, higher crime, increased accidents due to impairment, etc.

As for what I would do if cannibis were easy to manufacture from household ingredients, was legal and had controlled distributed in stores; and alcohol required special plants to manufacture, was illegal and whose distribution resulted in jail time? I'd probably smoke and be against the legalization of alcohol.

 

[Colonel Ronan]

Hm, I'm definitely going to have to agree to disagree. All of your points are complete rubbish, to be honest with you, man.

 

[BrianFromWA]

He doesn't need my help, but I'm with Maxie on this one.

 

[barfo]

As for what I would do if cannibis were easy to manufacture from household ingredients, was legal and had controlled distributed in stores; and alcohol required special plants to manufacture, was illegal and whose distribution resulted in jail time? I'd probably smoke and be against the legalization of alcohol.

Strange point of view. Pot isn't hard to manufacture. It's not called weed for nothing.

barfo

 

[maxiep]

Strange point of view. Pot isn't hard to manufacture. It's not called weed for nothing.

barfo

Okay. Go to a grocery store and buy seeds.

I can go to Albertson's and buy everything I need to make beer, wine or hard alcohol. That's what I'm talking about, not the ability to grow a plant.

 

[barfo]

Okay. Go to a grocery store and buy seeds.

I can go to Albertson's and buy everything I need to make beer, wine or hard alcohol. That's what I'm talking about, not the ability to grow a plant.

Why is buying it at Albertson's so important, though? Marijuana seeds are really not difficult to get, even though you have to buy them in the Albertson's parking lot instead of inside the store.

barfo

 

[maxiep]

Why is buying it at Albertson's so important, though? Marijuana seeds are really not difficult to get, even though you have to buy them in the Albertson's parking lot instead of inside the store.

barfo

Because one is legally done in the open and one is illegally done. BTW, your reference point of Portland, OR is not really representative of how easy it is to score pot. Try buying seeds in Montana or Kansas.

Is it really your argument that it's just as easy to buy marijuana seeds/plants as it is to go to your local grocery store?