Politics Psychedelic mushroom legalization effort in Oregon gets ballot language approval

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I don't trust humanity in the current climate here as much as the Portuguese probably trust the population there.
 
riverman said:
I don't trust humanity in the current climate here as much as the Portuguese probably trust the population there.
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Human nature is as such:

People always want to have sex and leave reality. It shouldn't be s crime to harm your own body.

The crimes drug addicts do already have laws against them on the books.

You're saying this like prohibition works.
 
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dviss1 said:
Human nature is as such:

People always want to have sex and leave reality. It shouldn't be s crime to harm your own body.

The crimes drug addicts do already have laws against them on the books.

You're saying this like prohibition works.
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Is it not ironic that suicide is a crime?
 
dviss1 said:
Human nature is as such:

People always want to have sex and leave reality. It shouldn't be s crime to harm your own body.

The crimes drug addicts do already have laws against them on the books.

You're saying this like prohibition works.
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I've never said it's a crime to harm your body....tobacco is out there..lots of substances to abuse. In the right climate or even the right region I agree with the Dutch or Portuguese attitudes...I have concerns here that are mostly about how it affects mental illness in society...laws are often strange...oral sex was illegal..not sure if that was ever amended. We have a country filled with weapons and PTSD vets, cops, crazy fuckers...etc. If any of them hurt themselves..no problem, if they hurt others..big fuckin' problem. Mushrooms have a history of being an enabler for some cases of mental illness. Drunk drivers too often don't just hurt themselves either.
 
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riverman said:
Couldn't disagree more.....I'm a mushroom hunter and have been told by many mycologists that the hallucinations from mushrooms is actually the body freaking out from trying to process it. I've been told it's similar to the effect rat poison has on a dying rat that's ingested it only it's not lethal after about 8 hours and the body eventually accepts it. The liver however I'm told suffers trying to deal with the toxins and if too large a dose is ingested it can contribute to recurring panic attacks ...like many things it's a matter of knowing your doses but as a medicinal drug...it needs to be supervised and like fentanyl and other designer drugs...this one in my view will not be used responsibly for the most part as in visionary spiritual experiences...
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Rat poison is the same thing as Warfarin, a blood thinner. It is made from a plant mold such as is found in clover.
Interestingly, the sweet smell of freshly cut grass comes from coumarin which is used to make warfarin (aka coumadin). I'm not sure but I beelieve the coumarin used to make warfarin comes from moldy clover.
 
riverman said:
I've never said it's a crime to harm your body....tobacco is out there..lots of substances to abuse. In the right climate or even the right region I agree with the Dutch or Portuguese attitudes...I have concerns here that are mostly about how it affects mental illness in society...laws are often strange...oral sex was illegal..not sure if that was ever amended. We have a country filled with weapons and PTSD vets, cops, crazy fuckers...etc. If any of them hurt themselves..no problem, if they hurt others..big fuckin' problem. Mushrooms have a history of being an enabler for some cases of mental illness. Drunk drivers too often don't just hurt themselves either.
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Yet alcohol is legal and we have laws on the books punishing crimes like DUII.

Possession of a controlled substance should not be a crime.
 
Lanny said:
How else can police intervene in a suicide attempt?
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Ask Lukas Glenn's family if they would change the fact that they called the police to intervene.

They shot a high school kid for threatening himself with a knife....
 
dviss1 said:
Yes but possessing a substance the government says will harm you is a crime.
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sure it is...so is possessing mustard gas though...or a nuke...and my posts have nothing to do with what the govt dictates but what my personal experiences have led me to think about magic mushrooms and more importantly, the irresponsible use of these things. My biggest concern is that it will lead to triggering mental illness in folks who are on the edge of losing it anyway...cops, vets, etc...high stress career folks. I've also said that certain demographics were more conducive to having a culture that would act more responsibly...and understand the dangers...or in other words...I'm leaning towards this particular substance as one that we're better off being a "controlled" one...yet not a felony....if labs can make safe doses without risks to health then it could begin to take a medicinal track towards decriminalization or eventual legalization. I believe Native Americans are allowed by law to use them in rituals and possess them currently...but the Native Americans understand their properties unlike maybe some guy with anger issues down at the bar. I think this is an interesting topic and I've been trying to sort it out myself. I worked with a vets counciling program when I got back from the war and often these guys can be wound pretty tight. I want fentanyl and oxycontin to be controlled substances as well.
 
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dviss1 said:
Yes but possessing a substance the government says will harm you is a crime.
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I think that's also mainly due to the possibility of hurting someone else...or your children finding it and eating it, etc....not so much what your personal choice is but how it can affect those around you. Dad accidentally triggering mental illness thinking he is just getting high is going to hurt the kids or family probably more than himself.
 
dviss1 said:
Use common sense.
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look at the whole picture or just disengage.....honestly, I'll just disengage if you don't respect the dialogue...so be it...too bad..this topic is interesting to me
 
riverman said:
look at the whole picture or just disengage.....honestly, I'll just disengage if you don't respect the dialogue...so be it...too bad..this topic is interesting to me
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You just compared possessing heroin to possessing mustard gas. One is a WMD...

Sorry, I just don't know where to go from there...
 
dviss1 said:
You just compared possessing heroin to possessing mustard gas. One is a WMD...

Sorry, I just don't know where to go from there...
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controlled is the word dviss...and posed risks that follow...medical science has found pros and cons to mushrooms...that's where I go from there..look at the whole issue and I've posted that I've seen mental illness triggered by shrooms in one vet that pretty much turned him to a vegetable....the potential for enabling mental illness that is under control by stimulation of shrooms is a real issue...I've written several posts about what I think may be possible..as it stands I don't know that I would vote for it to be legalized for the reasons I've stated. No post here has offered a case that would make me vote yes on the issue as it stands today but I'll listen. I'm not looking at this from a political perspective..more from a social one.
 
dviss1 said:
You just compared possessing heroin to possessing mustard gas
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Just for the record my friend....I'm aware of what I post. I made a list of things that laws control possession of that are obviously a danger to society or have the potential to be. If you come to my cabin we can walk out in the woods and you can pick them in the dairy pasture down the hill...I have no problem with people doing that who I think can handle it. I just think there are a lot of folks who can't and I know a few.
 
riverman said:
I think that's also mainly due to the possibility of hurting someone else...or your children finding it and eating it, etc....not so much what your personal choice is but how it can affect those around you. Dad accidentally triggering mental illness thinking he is just getting high is going to hurt the kids or family probably more than himself.
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People can protect themselves if given truthful information.

I don't need the government to tell me my son shouldn't be near heroine. There are also child endangerment laws already on the books.
 
riverman said:
controlled is the word dviss...and posed risks that follow...medical science has found pros and cons to mushrooms...that's where I go from there..look at the whole issue and I've posted that I've seen mental illness triggered by shrooms in one vet that pretty much turned him to a vegetable....the potential for enabling mental illness that is under control by stimulation of shrooms is a real issue...I've written several posts about what I think may be possible..as it stands I don't know that I would vote for it to be legalized for the reasons I've stated. No post here has offered a case that would make me vote yes on the issue as it stands today but I'll listen. I'm not looking at this from a political perspective..more from a social one.
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No one was attempting to sway you. I'm simply stating what I believe and what I will work toward.

I'll be voting yes and I don't use them.

The war on drugs has been a large FAILURE and a waste of money. That money could be better spent on prevention, information, and recovery as opposed to giving people prison sentences and ruining lives for it.

If usage going down is the end goal, policing it achieves the opposite.
 
dviss1 said:
People can protect themselves if given truthful information.
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You'd have to trust those people to actually read the information...I've stated earlier...I don't trust American culture currently on those levels...truth today is that stressed out Americans are flipping out in public venues more than I can ever remember...we all talk on and on about mental illness yet....this is where it starts..or at least one area of concern...
 
dviss1 said:
Ask Lukas Glenn's family if they would change the fact that they called the police to intervene.

They shot a high school kid for threatening himself with a knife....
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Yeah, but that's not typical. Think of the countless times police officers have saved someone from jumping off a bridge. Sure there are bad cops but most aren't bad.
 
Lanny said:
Yeah, but that's not typical. Think of the countless times police officers have saved someone from jumping off a bridge. Sure there are bad cops but most aren't bad.
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So. Cops are not the right people to call when it comes to suicide prevention.

They don't have the training to deal with the mentally ill.
 
riverman said:
You'd have to trust those people to actually read the information...I've stated earlier...I don't trust American culture currently on those levels...truth today is that stressed out Americans are flipping out in public venues more than I can ever remember...we all talk on and on about mental illness yet....this is where it starts..or at least one area of concern...
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Info comes in more forms than simply reading.

The more you know...
 
riverman said:
You'd have to trust those people to actually read the information...I've stated earlier...I don't trust American culture currently on those levels...truth today is that stressed out Americans are flipping out in public venues more than I can ever remember...we all talk on and on about mental illness yet....this is where it starts..or at least one area of concern...
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Ever taken shrooms? I have.

Right now you're conflating our problem with mental illness.

Mushrooms don't make you go crazy and shoot up a school.

That's crazy talk that you've never even heard of.
 
riverman said:
yeah but passing a driver's test doesn't cure some of road rage in the end
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You're acting like every single addict commits crime...

Sooooo, since the war on drugs has been proven to be a failure, we should not spend money policing the situation.

Criminalizing possession is a waste of money and doesn't achieve the end goal of minimizing usage.
 
riverman said:
I have no problem with people doing that who I think can handle it. I just think there are a lot of folks who can't and I know a few.
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This doesn't jibe with your stance on punishing those that can handle it.
 
riverman said:
yes I've heard of them..cluster headaches....and I've experimented with two varieties of magic mushrooms ..for the euphoria they can offer...I contend the body is drained and weakened from ingesting them. Recovering from them is a less than creative experience in my view....your view of them is one I used to have...that they can be used in proper dosage for creative or spiritual experiences.....my point is much like alcohol they have a price in the end to physical well being and doctors know they can trigger mental illness...I gave up alcohol the same way I gave up shrooms....for health reasons. I'm a cannabis user and have experienced no ill effects from using it in moderation..my inner traffic light of truth says...the caution light is flashing..
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Ha!

I applaud your caution, but no thanks to the weed. A few lite beer, now and then aren't too harmful. Even some good, a couple to wash down the Ibprofen when needed works darn well.
 
dviss1 said:
You're acting like every single addict commits crime...
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dviss you're sensationalizing don't you think? I've never said anything about all addicts being criminals or commiting crimes...I was a tobacco addict for 50 years....didn't hurt anyone but myself
 
dviss1 said:
This doesn't jibe with your stance on punishing those that can handle it.
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I have made no statements about punishment whatsoever...c'mon dude, talk about the subject...FWIW I'm not the subject
 
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