Public Employees Protesting WI Governor

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Idiots on parade. Hey dumbshits, you make more money than most of the people paying for your lifestyle and pension. You have a great thing going, and you're pissing it all away for nothing. LMAO

[video=youtube;E1LeqQbf4Rs]
 
If you don't like teachers simply vote no on all school levies for your district. That's the one your $ goes to.

You really don't know what you're talking about. Local levies have nothing to do with state-level collective bargaining/retirement packages.
 
I pay a hell of a lot more than 7%. Also, I pay 100% of my own retirement, as well as paying for slugs like Sug's retirement.

That's not true at all.

You will draw SS and it will probably be the biggest chunk of your retirement package unless your business is really rockin'.

If the voters were really saying enough is enough they would halve all politician pay. These are the overpaid crooks who ran the debt up. Unions are the scapegoats.
 
You really don't know what you're talking about. Local levies have nothing to do with state-level collective bargaining/retirement packages.

Local levies ultimately control staff levels and the continued existence of the district.

Good teachers, like good anything else, don't come cheap. Either pay them well because you value them or fire them all and don't complain about the lack of good schools. The option of paying them crappy and having crappy teachers seems self-defeating and more expensive in the long run.

Can't have your cake and eat it too.
 
That's not true at all.

You will draw SS and it will probably be the biggest chunk of your retirement package unless your business is really rockin'.

If the voters were really saying enough is enough they would halve all politician pay. These are the overpaid crooks who ran the debt up. Unions are the scapegoats.

At some point, will you just accept your own ignorance and stop posting in this thread? It's clear that you have no idea how private sector taxpayers set up their own retirements. A large part of mine has been based in the stock market (I was young, and took some risks), and thankfully, I've had the brains subsequently to make gains and protect those gains.

If my retirement was based primarily on my SS payments, I may as well just shoot myself now. Which brings up another question. Why shouldn't people without the means that I have be able to place a small percentage of their mandated SS tax into a private account?
 
Local levies ultimately control staff levels and the continued existence of the district.

Duh.

State contracts ultimately control the benefits and retirements packages of these teachers.

That was my point. Try to focus, Pops.
 
Either way works for your goal, which is no taxes, which means no government services like schools.

Your vote can shut down the schools. No schools, no employees, no retirement packages.

Duh.

Or the governor's plan. Shitty package, shitty employees, shitty schools, stupid populace.

So you want your world to be filled with morons?
 
Which brings up another question. Why shouldn't people without the means that I have be able to place a small percentage of their mandated SS tax into a private account?

Because it's a fool's play. Like trading gold bullion for beanie babies.

You likely lost 40%-70% of what you thought was going to be your stock market retirement package during the last few years, but this is a message board so go ahead and claim you were the guy who saw it all coming and pulled it out in time.
 
Or the governor's plan. Shitty package, shitty employees, shitty schools, stupid populace.

So you want your world to be filled with morons?

Didn't you just say this earlier?

"Average" is a very low bar to hop, and the "average Wisconsin worker" is simply not up to the task of teaching. They're barely up for learning.

Aren't you suggesting that the world is already filled with morons? :devilwink:
 
Seems like the tea party is learning on the fly:
Some tea party groups said Saturday they are forming exploratory committees to recall two of the Democrats who fled the state Thursday to protest the vote on the bill.

The tea party group Northwood Patriots said it would meet today to discuss the recall of state Senator Jim Holperin, while a separate group in Kenosha, called the Robert Wirch Exploratory Committee said it is looking into recalling state Senator Robert Wirch.

According to Madison's The Capital Times, a recall effort would require the exploratory committees to collect 15,000 to 20,000 petition signatures.
 
Because it's a fool's play. Like trading gold bullion for beanie babies.

You likely lost 40%-70% of what you thought was going to be your stock market retirement package during the last few years, but this is a message board so go ahead and claim you were the guy who saw it all coming and pulled it out in time.

Have you seen the market lately? I'm not old like you, and I don't depend on mutual funds/PERs to fund my retirement plans.

At what point do you just quit trying in this thread?
 
Keep overplaying your hand, and eventually it gets bitten.

Doctors who handed out excuse notes surprised by response
e-mail print By The Associated Press
Feb. 21, 2011 7:06 a.m. |(222) Comments

Doctors who wrote medical notes over the weekend excusing protesters at the Wisconsin Capitol from work are getting slammed with angry phone calls and profane e-mails from people telling them they deserve to be thrown in jail, one doctor said Sunday. »Read Full Article

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/116589928.html?page=5#comments
 
Just want to fan the flames a bit:

b418bc6e-aaf5-41be-9706-86c59d3b4035.jpg
 
Just want to fan the flames a bit:

b418bc6e-aaf5-41be-9706-86c59d3b4035.jpg

The big difference is that in Egypt, it is private citizens protesting the government for being corrupt.

In Wisconsin, it is public workers protesting their bosses, and by proxy, the private citizens who pay for their salaries. Salaries that are well above the average private sector worker's salary, I'll add.
 
I don't think so, PapaG. The AUSTERITY required to bring fiscal sanity back to govt. economics is sure to cause many more protests like this one. This is the tip of the iceberg.
 
I don't think so, PapaG. The AUSTERITY required to bring fiscal sanity back to govt. economics is sure to cause many more protests like this one. This is the tip of the iceberg.

I understand this, and Sug's comments in this thread show how entrenched the public union members' sense of entitlement is in their belief system.

That said, the few public opinion polls being released show that people in WI handily support the governor over the moochers. If the opposite were the case, I really believe that the results would lead every newscast tonight.

I just don't see this as that big of a deal. The moochers need to be held accountable for their mooching, and taxpayers in some states are starting to understand the basic economic principle of a system where the public employees make more money and have better benefits than their private sector bosses.
 
Calling the govt. employees moochers is a bit over the top. That there are so many govt. jobs is absurd, but it's not the employees' fault - other than voting for candidates who grow the govt. payrolls.

Unions have declined in popularity rather steadily for at least the past decade. It's not uncommon for members of one union to show solidarity with members of another.
 
I understand this, and Sug's comments in this thread show how entrenched the public union members' sense of entitlement is in their belief system.

That said, the few public opinion polls being released show that people in WI handily support the governor over the moochers. If the opposite were the case, I really believe that the results would lead every newscast tonight.

I just don't see this as that big of a deal. The moochers need to be held accountable for their mooching, and taxpayers in some states are starting to understand the basic economic principle of a system where the public employees make more money and have better benefits than their private sector bosses.

Papa I have to ask, what type of business do you own? Just curious
 
I understand this, and Sug's comments in this thread show how entrenched the public union members' sense of entitlement is in their belief system.

That said, the few public opinion polls being released show that people in WI handily support the governor over the moochers. If the opposite were the case, I really believe that the results would lead every newscast tonight.

I just don't see this as that big of a deal. The moochers need to be held accountable for their mooching, and taxpayers in some states are starting to understand the basic economic principle of a system where the public employees make more money and have better benefits than their private sector bosses.

I don't think I have come out in favor of the protests in any post in this thread, nor have I shown an "entrenched" position. I said that I really have no control over what I get paid or the power to truly negotiate that on a personal level. I have also said that when you get hired there are certain promises made in both public and private employment. Those promises being benefits such as healthcare, disability insurance, retirement plans, etc. When I am told that my contributions will be matched, I assume they will be. When I am told that I am going to receive a certain benefit, I assume that the promise will be met. This has been true in my work for both the private and public sector. My father was a captain in the Army and he to had certain benefits that were promised to him. Things like the G.I. Bill, vet benefits, etc. My friends who are police officers, postal carriers, and firefighters are in the same boat. We all face the reality that those promises will not be met at the federal and state level. We all serve our state and country with pride, but at the end of the day we face the impact of a struggling economy. There are a lot of reasons for this, the private sector's greed in terms of real estate is one of the primary causes of our current plight. Banks, mortgage companies, and the government(elected officials funded by PRIVATE corporations) made sure to fix the system in their favor hence destroying the economy. You can attempt to pass the blame to teachers as much as you like, but the reality is that there is a shared responsibility when it comes to the totality of the problem.

This is where my main issue is with people like you who like to point and scream like a child and say "they did it mommy, they ruined everything!" The truth is that the majority of flaws in the government are there as a result of greed from the private sector. If you honestly believe that the public unions have nearly as much powers as big oil, banks, and real-estate you are fucking nuts. Look at any major piece of legislation and you will see the finger prints of the private sector lawyers all over them. It's not like the teachers unions has any say in GWB's No Child-Left Behind Act, it was written primarily by the testing companies and textbook companies. There were actual parts of the bill that rewarded those companies by putting their tests, books, and programs in place in the even that a school/district did not meet their pre-determined benchmarks. As a result you have had billions being poured into these PRIVATE company coffers into programs that suck and have shown no real meaningful gains for students. These are private companies that are mooching off the system, not me. Another example of this is the military, my father had the honor of serving his nation, and even found himself in the PRIVATE sector working for a defense contractor. If you are looking for someone to target, I suggest you start there. The shit that goes down in that private/public sector orgy would make a Roman ruler blush. The fact remains that we are in an age of corporatist power backed by both parties, and well protected by the last four presidents. Obama is no better than Bush or Clinton, in fact he is better by evidence of the record profits recently reported. Cry all you want about my PERS, but it is a drop in the bucket compared to the other shit the PRIVATE sector has written into law to mooch off the schools, states, and federal budgets.
 
Aren't you suggesting that the world is already filled with morons? :devilwink:

I think that's something that, ironically, EVERYONE agrees with.

Moronism is relative.

My Dad once told me (when I placed at the top of an IQ study in the elementary school and was quite full of myself) you can view yourself as a genius and those less intelligent than you as average, but a safer and possibly more accurate view is that you are of normal intelligence and those less intelligent than you are gullible morons.

I have found in life the latter view serves me better than the former.
 
The big difference is that in Egypt, it is private citizens protesting the government for being corrupt.

In Wisconsin, it is public workers protesting their bosses, and by proxy, the private citizens who pay for their salaries. Salaries that are well above the average private sector worker's salary, I'll add.

Apples and Oranges, again.

To compare a teacher's wage to that of a drive-thru attendant or a doorman or a taxi driver demonstrates your total lack of any cohesive arguement.

Public teachers are drastically UNDERPAID compared to teachers in the private sector, which is the ONLY valid comparison.
 
Calling the govt. employees moochers is a bit over the top. That there are so many govt. jobs is absurd, but it's not the employees' fault - other than voting for candidates who grow the govt. payrolls.

Unions have declined in popularity rather steadily for at least the past decade. It's not uncommon for members of one union to show solidarity with members of another.

My belief system has been demonized by over-the-top rhetoric by the left for years Rather than stand down, I am now engaging in a similar style of rhetoric.

I believe that public union members, especially those in positions like teaching, are proving themselves to be moochers, and unwilling to face the reality that their bosses in the private sector are already deeply into at this point.

It's like an echo chamber with these moochers, IMO.
 
I don't think I have come out in favor of the protests in any post in this thread, nor have I shown an "entrenched" position. I said that I really have no control over what I get paid or the power to truly negotiate that on a personal level. I have also said that when you get hired there are certain promises made in both public and private employment. Those promises being benefits such as healthcare, disability insurance, retirement plans, etc. When I am told that my contributions will be matched, I assume they will be. When I am told that I am going to receive a certain benefit, I assume that the promise will be met. This has been true in my work for both the private and public sector. My father was a captain in the Army and he to had certain benefits that were promised to him. Things like the G.I. Bill, vet benefits, etc. My friends who are police officers, postal carriers, and firefighters are in the same boat. We all face the reality that those promises will not be met at the federal and state level. We all serve our state and country with pride, but at the end of the day we face the impact of a struggling economy. There are a lot of reasons for this, the private sector's greed in terms of real estate is one of the primary causes of our current plight. Banks, mortgage companies, and the government(elected officials funded by PRIVATE corporations) made sure to fix the system in their favor hence destroying the economy. You can attempt to pass the blame to teachers as much as you like, but the reality is that there is a shared responsibility when it comes to the totality of the problem.

This is where my main issue is with people like you who like to point and scream like a child and say "they did it mommy, they ruined everything!" The truth is that the majority of flaws in the government are there as a result of greed from the private sector. If you honestly believe that the public unions have nearly as much powers as big oil, banks, and real-estate you are fucking nuts. Look at any major piece of legislation and you will see the finger prints of the private sector lawyers all over them. It's not like the teachers unions has any say in GWB's No Child-Left Behind Act, it was written primarily by the testing companies and textbook companies. There were actual parts of the bill that rewarded those companies by putting their tests, books, and programs in place in the even that a school/district did not meet their pre-determined benchmarks. As a result you have had billions being poured into these PRIVATE company coffers into programs that suck and have shown no real meaningful gains for students. These are private companies that are mooching off the system, not me. Another example of this is the military, my father had the honor of serving his nation, and even found himself in the PRIVATE sector working for a defense contractor. If you are looking for someone to target, I suggest you start there. The shit that goes down in that private/public sector orgy would make a Roman ruler blush. The fact remains that we are in an age of corporatist power backed by both parties, and well protected by the last four presidents. Obama is no better than Bush or Clinton, in fact he is better by evidence of the record profits recently reported. Cry all you want about my PERS, but it is a drop in the bucket compared to the other shit the PRIVATE sector has written into law to mooch off the schools, states, and federal budgets.

I never said you ruined anything. I said that you have better benefits than the people paying for your benefits. This is a fact, for the most part.

You've already shown your disdain for the taxpayers in this thread, Sug. A long post isn't going to walk that one back.

Also, Ted Kennedy was the original sponsor of No Child Left Behind and guided it through committees and a floor vote. Did you forget that, or did you never know about his role in that law?

I'm guessing it is the latter. ;)
 
Apples and Oranges, again.

To compare a teacher's wage to that of a drive-thru attendant or a doorman or a taxi driver demonstrates your total lack of any cohesive arguement.

Public teachers are drastically UNDERPAID compared to teachers in the private sector, which is the ONLY valid comparison.

I don't believe that, but since you posted it, care to post a comparative between a private teacher's retirement guarantees versus that of the public teacher?

Also, private teachers are paid directly from the tuitions collected from the parents of the students that they teach. Those parents also have to contribute to public teachers' retirements, whether they utilize them or not.
 
Teachers are fee to leave their jobs if they can't live with the changes the government wish to make. Promises are broken in the private sector all the time by companies that can't afford the benefits they'd like to pay their employees.
 
Teachers are free to leave their jobs if they can't live with the changes the government wish to make. Promises are broken in the private sector all the time by companies that can't afford the benefits they'd like to pay their employees.

The moochers don't seem to understand this basic economic fact. Times change, and businesses have to adjust. I've been laid off before in an 'adjustment' for the bottom line; the "promise" they made to me when I was hired was irrelevant.

It's one of the main reasons that I started my own consulting business after 13 years of corporate garbage. It's all on me at this point, and I like that a lot.
 
Teachers are fee to leave their jobs if they can't live with the changes the government wish to make. Promises are broken in the private sector all the time by companies that can't afford the benefits they'd like to pay their employees.

Are you referring to breach of contract? Withholding pay? There are legal remedies for these illegal actions.

Teachers (all of the really good ones, the cream of the crop) will leave, for better paying jobs. Some in other states, some in the private sector, some will go overseas to Japan or other countries where American teacher's pay is far more rewarding.

And then the laziest, most damaging "moochers" as PapaG likes to call them will make up the entire Wisconsin Public School System. Because those guys ain't goin' nowhere unless they get fired. In 10 years time a whole generation of Wisconsin students will become the state's most ignorant class of young workers/taxpayers. In 20 years bills will be proposed to restrict the dummies from Wisconsin from driving or owning anything with a pointy tip in fear of them hurting themselves. Eventually DHS would have to build a wall around the state to protect the union from a stupidity epidemic.

After that my crystal ball gets a little hazy...
 
I never said you ruined anything. I said that you have better benefits than the people paying for your benefits. This is a fact, for the most part.

You've already shown your disdain for the taxpayers in this thread, Sug. A long post isn't going to walk that one back.

Also, Ted Kennedy was the original sponsor of No Child Left Behind and guided it through committees and a floor vote. Did you forget that, or did you never know about his role in that law?

I'm guessing it is the latter. ;)

Let's take this one step at a time:

#1 "I said that you have better benefits than the people paying for your benefits. This is a fact, for the most part."
What are my benefits? Can you tell me exactly what my district offered me? I am pretty sure my Kaiser option is the same as the majority of people across the state. If you are talking about my PERS to which I contribute to every month and the district matches. Let's see as of right now I have received NOTHING from this benefit, but I have paid in a lot. Sure the district has matched my funds, but will I ever see the benefit when I retire? Who knows. I liken it to my social security taxes I pay, who knows.

#2 "You've already shown your disdain for the taxpayers in this thread, Sug. A long post isn't going to walk that one back."
Either quote where I have done this or shut the fuck up already about my entrenchment, and disdain.

#3 "Also, Ted Kennedy was the original sponsor of No Child Left Behind and guided it through committees and a floor vote. Did you forget that, or did you never know about his role in that law?"

Actually Einstein the NCLB was an extension of an existing law that was called The Elementary and Secondary Education Act which was passed in 1965. It was reauthorized by NCLB. I don't have to guess as to your ignorance on this fact as it is already clear to see by your snippy little bitch of a post. As I stated clearly in my "long" post, the problem of government being in collusion with the private sector exists on BOTH sides of the aisle. I marked that text for your poor reading comprehension. In the end it was in fact GWB that finally signed that bill into law. I think that is why people call the healthcare law Obamacare right? I mean that bill became law the same way I think? hardy har har

Anyway, next time you try to flame me please understand that you are clearly not up to the task. You are irrationally driven by your ignorance to the larger picture, and as a result you come off as a dipshit. I know you are passionate about the subject, but you really are being a child. Your response failed to address basically anything I wrote, because you clearly don't know how to respond in an intelligent manner.
 

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