Question for Dviss about 3 in the key

[Natebishop3]

So I would really like to get a refs opinion on this.

I feel like I'm constantly watching guys camped out in the middle. We have this rule, but it seems like it's sparingly enforced.

Do you call it more often in high school? Why is it that the rule isn't enforced very often?

 

[Eastoff]

So I would really like to get a refs opinion on this.

I feel like I'm constantly watching guys camped out in the middle. We have this rule, but it seems like it's sparingly enforced.

Do you call it more often in high school? Why is it that the rule isn't enforced very often?

Well you just have to step one foot out every so often.

 

[dviss1]

I'm on my way home but I have an answer I'll post in a bit.

 

[THE HCP]

One foot in one foot out.......

 

[riverman]

One foot in one foot out.......

This is HCP chanting while hanging out with that killer shoe collection

 

[Natebishop3]

One foot in one foot out.......

Nah, I see guys with both feet in, no feet out, and they're allowed to chill for much longer than 3 seconds.

Think about how short three seconds is... one one thousand..... two one thousand.... three one thousand...... that's it. You can't be in the key for more than three seconds or technically you've broken the rule and the ball should go to the other team.

 

[Haakzilla]

One foot in one foot out.......

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Nah, I see guys with both feet in, no feet out, and they're allowed to chill for much longer than 3 seconds.

Think about how short three seconds is... one one thousand..... two one thousand.... three one thousand...... that's it. You can't be in the key for more than three seconds or technically you've broken the rule and the ball should go to the other team.

I think (and obviously this is dviss's to answer) it's a three-count rather than three seconds, because the key is bigger than it used to be but the rule never changed... so more like five seconds, three-count is okay. Kind of like inbounding is a five-count rather than five seconds...

 

[Natebishop3]

I think (and obviously this is dviss's to answer) it's a three-count rather than three seconds, because the key is bigger than it used to be but the rule never changed... so more like five seconds, three-count is okay. Kind of like inbounding is a five-count rather than five seconds...

This isn't dancing! What is this madness you're talking about?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

If they enforced the 3 sec rule it would make it too hard for the cameramen to follow the action. We're talking about a bunch of HCPs here.

 

[GrandpaBlaze]

One foot in one foot out.......

Is HCP doing the Hokey-Pokey?

<Shudders at mental visualization>

 

[e_blazer]

One foot in one foot out.......

Now you've got to put together a video of guys camping in the key with the "Hokey Pokey" playing in the background.

BTW, props on that piece in the last game with the black & white video. I thought that was cool.

 

[GrandpaBlaze]

Now you've got to put together a video of guys camping in the key with the "Hokey Pokey" playing in the background.

BTW, props on that piece in the last game with the black & white video. I thought that was cool.

Great minds think alike - hokey-pokey.

Either that or just "old" minds that can't think of anything more insightful.

 

[BlazerWookee]

I was addicted to the hokey-pokey once, but then I turned myself around.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I was addicted to the hokey-pokey once, but then I replaced that addiction with Coors Light.

FTFY

 

[e_blazer]

Great minds think alike - hokey-pokey.

Either that or just "old" minds that can't think of anything more insightful.

Unfortunately, it's probably the latter. I made my post and then saw that you went the same direction and then wondered if HCP even has a clue about what the heck we're talking about.

 

[e_blazer]

I was addicted to the hokey-pokey once, but then I turned myself around.

You probably thought that was what the jail in Lebanon is called.

 

[dviss1]

First let's talk about why the three second rule exists:

Being in the key gives players who are bigger and stronger a distinct advantage inside. The time in the key is limited to 3 seconds so that advantage isn't exploited.

There are lots of common misconceptions about this rule so let's make a few things clear:

The count does not start until the player with the ball establishes themselves as a frontcourt player (gets both feet and the ball past the division line). So, in the NBA a player can be in the key for 7.9 seconds without a turnover if the ball is in the backcourt.

The count stops when a shot goes up or the player with the ball at 2.9 seconds recieves it and goes up for a shot immediately.

This is not a letter of the law call. Because if it were called it that way it would be called 20 or so times a game and you'd see a ref over blowing his whistle instead of a basketball game.

The violation is called on a player who has been inside the key area for 3 seconds AND has gained an advantage from being there.

So if a player has been in the key for 3 seconds and has not gained an advantage from it (better scoring/rebounding position) it's not something you call UNTIL the advantage is gained.

 

[Natebishop3]

First let's talk about why the three second rule exists:

Being in the key gives players who are bigger and stronger a distinct advantage inside. The time in the key is limited to 3 seconds so that advantage isn't exploited.

There are lots of common misconceptions about this rule so let's make a few things clear:

The count does not start until the player with the ball establishes themselves as a frontcourt player (gets both feet and the ball past the division line). So, in the NBA a player can be in the key for 7.9 seconds without a turnover if the ball is in the backcourt.

The count stops when a shot goes up or the player with the ball at 2.9 seconds recieves it and goes up for a shot immediately.

This is not a letter of the law call. Because if it were called it that way it would be called 20 or so times a game and you'd see a ref over blowing his whistle instead of a basketball game.

The violation is called on a player who has been inside the key area for 3 seconds AND has gained an advantage from being there.

So if a player has been in the key for 3 seconds and has not gained and advantage from it (better scoring/rebounding position) it's not something you call UNTIL the advantage is gained.

Fascinating. My understanding of the rule was completely wrong.


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[dviss1]

Fascinating. My understanding of the rule was completely wrong.


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There are lots of rules people just don't understand until they've administered them under pressure. One thing I'll give NBA officials is they do their job with lots of scrutiny. It's hard AF to do what they do.

 

[Natebishop3]

There are lots of rules people just don't understand until they've administered them under pressure. One thing I'll give NBA officials is they do their job with lots of scrutiny. It's hard AF to do what they do.

So one thing I'm still not clear on: can you have 3 in the key called on you when you don't have the ball? I always thought it was called mostly on guys who are trying to get the best position for rebounding the ball.


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[dviss1]

So one thing I'm still not clear on: can you have 3 in the key called on you when you don't have the ball? I always thought it was called mostly on guys who are trying to get the best position for rebounding the ball.


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Most certainly. It's usually called on players without the ball.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Most certainly. It's usually called on players without the ball.

I seem to remember it being called a lot on players just as they get the ball after being in the key for more than 3 seconds, whether it's from a pass or a rebound.

 

[dviss1]

I seem to remember it being called a lot on players just as they get the ball after being in the key for more than 3 seconds, whether it's from a pass or a rebound.

Exactly. They've been the key maybe 3.5-4 secs and then they get the ball. That's when you whistle it.

The rebound call is usually called right when the shot goes up though.

Also, lets say they are retreating from the key after being inside for 3 or so secs. I wouldn't put a whistle that either because they are losing their advantage.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Exactly. They've been the key maybe 3.5-4 secs and then they get the ball. That's when you whistle it.

The rebound call is usually called right when The shot goes up though.

Also, lets say they are retreating from the key after being inside for 3 or so secs. I wouldn't put a whistle that either because they are losing their advantage.

I can't jump super high but I have amazing hang time, if I'm in the key hovering in the air for longer than 3 secs is that still 3 in the key?

 

[riverman]

I can't jump super high but I have amazing hang time, if I'm in the key hovering in the air for longer than 3 secs is that still 3 in the key?

That just means your leash got hung up on something

 

[Orion Bailey]

I can't jump super high but I have amazing hang time, if I'm in the key hovering in the air for longer than 3 secs is that still 3 in the key?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_rights

 

[dviss1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_rights

This is also the principle of Verticality. You own your spot on the court from the floor to the ceiling.

 

[dviss1]

One foot in one foot out.......

Is still in the key.

 

[Dan Marang]

First let's talk about why the three second rule exists:

Being in the key gives players who are bigger and stronger a distinct advantage inside. The time in the key is limited to 3 seconds so that advantage isn't exploited.

There are lots of common misconceptions about this rule so let's make a few things clear:

The count does not start until the player with the ball establishes themselves as a frontcourt player (gets both feet and the ball past the division line). So, in the NBA a player can be in the key for 7.9 seconds without a turnover if the ball is in the backcourt.

The count stops when a shot goes up or the player with the ball at 2.9 seconds recieves it and goes up for a shot immediately.

This is not a letter of the law call. Because if it were called it that way it would be called 20 or so times a game and you'd see a ref over blowing his whistle instead of a basketball game.

The violation is called on a player who has been inside the key area for 3 seconds AND has gained an advantage from being there.

So if a player has been in the key for 3 seconds and has not gained an advantage from it (better scoring/rebounding position) it's not something you call UNTIL the advantage is gained.

advantage/disadvantage being the key

The best refs in any sport, not just the NBA, swallow their whistle unless an advantage/disadvantage situation is created. As @dviss1 said "you'd see a ref blowing his whistle" - and that's not an understatement. Ron Garrettson is undoubtedly my favorite ref in the NBA, I'm biased- he's a great dude- but more than that he doesn't blow his whistle all game long. If you are ever lucky enough to be around me when Zach Zarba is reffing a Blazers game- you'll undoubtedly hear me cursing the basketball gods. That man is a travesty heaped on the officiating profession. If you're ever curious as to who the decent officials are there's a nice handy dandy list here:

NBA Refs breakout

(You'll notice quickly where Zarba ranks...)