Rasheed Wallace has become a joke

[bodyman5001]

Imagine when Sheed eventually retires. "Rashweed quits again just like always!" will be the thread title.

I think I'm going to make a post about Rasheed Wonachampionship every time I read that incredibly retarded nickname.

I had already planned to start that thread. You ruined all the fun.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Please understand, to me what consenting adults choose to do in private is totally not my business.

But sex, like driving, carries responsibility.

A grown man and millionaire who, first, can't be troubled to put on a condom, and then forces six women into the humiliation of having to file in court for child support is not a person I am going to like. I know there are those who claim that women deliberately try to get pregnant by wealthy athletes for the money, but it could not have happened without his active cooperation, and a 79 cent piece of latex would have prevented it. If he's not willing to prevent, he can take responsibility without a court order.

So, women don't have responsibilities to use condoms? The women were actively cooperating as well.

 

[MARIS61]

Rasheed > any current Blazer.

Get over it.

 

[#1_War_Poet_ForLife]

Rashweed can get that many rebounds just by standing around the basket and waiting for something to fall into his hands. But he'd rather stand outside the 3-point line and loft up long jump shots all night. It's just more fun, don't you know! Hence, his ONE measly rebound tonight.

You do know there are such things as defensive rebounds, right?

 

[tlongII]

Rasheed > any current Blazer.

Get over it.

That's ridiculous! Brandon Roy will go down as the greatest player ever to play in Portland.

 

[Ed O]

IMO, that doesn't look like the resume of a "borderline HOF'er" to me.

OK. Can you name a retired player that has had more team and individual success that is NOT in the HoF? There aren't too many that I can think of.

- I don't think too many "key players" on a championship team on borderline HOF. It seems to me he would have to be THE key player. Maybe I should take a closer look at the existing HOF list.

There's no way that THE key player is a determinant of HoF status. Look at the number of key players in championship teams in the last two decades... Jordan, Pippen, DRob, Duncan, Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe. Maybe a Celtic or two from last year.

Rasheed was as important to the Pistons' championship as any single player. I don't think that this ALONE, though, is enough to make him a borderline HoFer.

- I think saying "-- One of the best defenders in the NBA for more than a decade" is a bit kind. Sheed has never been on an All-defense team. If he were truly "one of the best defenders" he surely would have made at least one all-defense team. I think he is a good to very good defender, but not one of the best.

So all of the quotes from players and coaches over the years about Rasheed being a great defender meant... what?

- The rest of those stats don't appear to be HOF level, but maybe I have it in my mind that HOF is a higher caliber than it really is. How many other players get to those rankings simply by playing in the league for many, many (13) years?

Feel free to see the types of players that are ahead of him on each of those lists. While there are outliers (lots of three point specialists, for example) in order to get to that level on so many key statistical rankings is an uncommon thing.

Counting his longevity against him doesn't really make much sense to me, either.

Ed O.

 

[crandc]

So, women don't have responsibilities to use condoms? The women were actively cooperating as well.

Yes, birth control is a dual responsibility, but ask straight women how many men they've known who actively took responsibility or even asked the woman if she was using contraceptives; they just assume it's up to her. (Steve Garvey, another deadbeat dad athlete, said that in so many words.)

The women had to go to court for child support from a millionaire. They carried pregnancies for 9 months, went through labor, and are now raising 7 children as single parents. So they have sure taken on responsibilities. All Kemp had to do was sign the check and he refused.

Not an equivalent.

 

[ehizzy3]

i think we need to retire sheed's number. i mean look at how his blazer totals rank in history of the blazers!!

 

[blazerboy30]

OK. Can you name a retired player that has had more team and individual success that is NOT in the HoF? There aren't too many that I can think of.

One player that quickly comes to mind is Terry Porter. How about Sabonis? Those are two players, and that is only looking at 1 team.

 

[hasoos]

I don't think that Wallace's play has much to do with his ability. I believe that the Pistons, are soon to implode. There are signs everybody is unhappy. AI. Prince. Hamilton. All of this, and Curry, seems to act the like the problem was that they were playing on Sunday. This is going to fester. Players that are on teams that are a festering disaster waiting to happen, tend not to play as hard for their coach. Wallace falls into that category.

 

[LittleAlex]

Rasheed > any current Blazer.

Get over it.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Nice joke.


But seriously, no.

 

[barfo]

Sheed's been traded once since he came to Portland.

Well, twice. Remember he was a Hawk-for-a-day.

barfo

 

[Ed O]

One player that quickly comes to mind is Terry Porter. How about Sabonis? Those are two players, and that is only looking at 1 team.

Porter wasn't a key player on a championship team. He appeared in half as many all-star games (two) as Rasheed. Rasheed's numbers are going to be better across the board by the time he retires.

Even though I think Rasheed is a superior candidate for the Hall, I would agree that Porter should be considered a borderline HoF candidate.

Sabonis is a different creature. His NBA career was pathetic for a HoFer (no all-star appearances, no Finals appearances, only 314 career starts, etc.), but his international dominance might be enough to get him into contention.

I know that I've put you in a tough spot, because I can disagree with any player that you throw out there... but neither of those guys are at all superior in terms of personal or team success to Rasheed.

Ed O.

 

[Ed O]

i think we need to retire sheed's number. i mean look at how his blazer totals rank in history of the blazers!!

Rasheed deserves to have his number retired just as much as almost any other Blazer (excepting Petrie, Walton, and Drexler) IMO.

Ed O.

 

[Minstrel]

Rasheed deserves to have his number retired just as much as almost any other Blazer (excepting Petrie, Walton, and Drexler) IMO.

I agree. Drexler and Walton were the only players (so far) who were clearly better than Rasheed Wallace. Petrie may have more significance to Portland, so I won't argue for or against him. I have no idea, not being a Portland fan all my life or a Portland resident.

 

[blazerboy30]

Porter wasn't a key player on a championship team. He appeared in half as many all-star games (two) as Rasheed. Rasheed's numbers are going to be better across the board by the time he retires.

Looking at career averages, as opposed to career totals, and using Porter's real career, before he started to deteriorate, Porter compares pretty favorably with Rasheed. Actually, looking at just their Portland careers, one could make a case for Porter. I could also Argue that Porter was a more important piece of a VERY good team than Rasheed.

Even though I think Rasheed is a superior candidate for the Hall, I would agree that Porter should be considered a borderline HoF candidate.

Sabonis is a different creature. His NBA career was pathetic for a HoFer (no all-star appearances, no Finals appearances, only 314 career starts, etc.), but his international dominance might be enough to get him into contention.

Interestingly, if you compare Sabonis and Rasheed while they were both on a very successful Blazers team, it is pretty clear that Sabonis was a far better player.

I know that I've put you in a tough spot, because I can disagree with any player that you throw out there... but neither of those guys are at all superior in terms of personal or team success to Rasheed.

Ed O.

I would say that Rasheed has had slightly more team success (difference between finals and western finals). I would also say that both Terry and Sabonis were at least as important to their team's success as Rasheed. And looking at their stats while playing in their primes (not really prime for Sabonis) their individual successes were very similar.

My point is that I don't really consider Porter or Sabonis HOF candidates, and they are pretty close in successes to Rasheed.

 

[MARIS61]

Please understand, to me what consenting adults choose to do in private is totally not my business.

But sex, like driving, carries responsibility.

A grown man and millionaire who, first, can't be troubled to put on a condom, and then forces six women into the humiliation of having to file in court for child support is not a person I am going to like. I know there are those who claim that women deliberately try to get pregnant by wealthy athletes for the money, but it could not have happened without his active cooperation, and a 79 cent piece of latex would have prevented it. If he's not willing to prevent, he can take responsibility without a court order.

2 way street.

What kind of lazy, stupid adult female has unprotected sex, knowing full well she could get pregnant, or die from AIDS?

Add to that the facts that Kemp "stands out in a crowd" as a rich meal ticket, and anyone who's had a brief conversation with him would recognize he's borderline retarded and a drug addict, and I have little to no sympathy for the mothers of his children.

My sympathy lies with the children, who deserve better than either parent they got.

 

[hasoos]

He may not be well liked for reasons I can't understand, but he is definitely not the most hated Blazer of all time. I think that designation should be left to Bob Whittsit. Or, if you need a player, Harvey Grant.

Cough...Cough...Miles...Cough...Cough....

 

[drexlersdad]

my roomate the hacker

 

[drexlersdad]

rasheed was great, crazy, and a pleasure to have on the team. i remember when we got him for strickland i thought it was the steal of the century, and it basically was.

 

[STOMP]

I think the primary reason people keep bringing up Wallace, is because they're so frustrated by being titillated by his potential. RW was and is a fantastic player, but if he played with a little more focus he could have been Tim Duncan's equal.

As a Wake fan I can assure you that at no point was Rasheed Tim's equal. RW was Dicky V's #1 guy coming out of HS and had all the hype (w/Stackhouse) going into that year. But Duncan more then held his own w/Sheed back when they were both freshman despite Tim being a year and half younger. That Tim is taller longer and heavier are all advantages for a big. Wallace has small hands for a guy his size and can barely palm the ball... thats not so good.

And then you get to their mindsets. As crazy as Wallace is felt to be by some, he also seems pretty universally praised and liked by NBA coaches players/teammates and has come through in all sorts of big games Would it have helped Wallace to be more focused? Probably but I feel like I'm only guessing from a distorted view if I'm trying to pick a guys personality apart. Wouldn't every athlete benefit from being more focused in games? For me the best sort of mindset for a teams leader is levelheaded and cool. Of course there have been some emotive leader champions over the years, but Timmy is the sort of cool under pressure type that usually comes out on top.

Combining Tim's physical advantages + mindset = the guy who the Warriors were publicly begging to declare the year Wallace came out. I could go on, but it would just be more examples of how these two were never equals. It seems odd for anyone to claim that they should have been. Maybe it's the passionate fan being disappointed with reality (that there guy isn't as good as the other team's guy) and needing to lash out and blame someone? Scapegoating is certainly alive and well in Portland's fanbase as we see here on a daily basis. IMO it's usually not the players fault for someone else being better/more talented, it's probably more on the fan for believing their own ridiculous expectations should be met or the guy is somehow not fulfilling his potential.

STOMP

 

[oldguy]

I'd be willing to retire jersey #41 for Wallace.

 

[Shooter]

You will never will never win over thinking people in your campaign to argue that Rasheed was a "loser" an "underperformer" and a "cancer".

Facts don't support your contention.

Is that right? You might want to check out the following quotes by NBA analysts, reporters, and fans regarding one Rasheed Wallace:

Dwight Jaynes, The Portland Tribune:

"Rasheed, as you left the Blazer locker room for the final time, you did so as the butt of yet another joke. And while your dope problems didn’t reach the proportions of some of your teammates’, your reputation as an all-around disagreeable person is legendary.

You were our public embarrassment, Rasheed. You were the dribbled soup on our tie. The zipper that somehow worked its way open in a public place.

We’re free, Portland. Free at last."

http://www.portlandtribune.com/sports/story.php?story_id=23027

Jamie Samuelsen, Detroit Free-Press

"I’m almost as sick of the blather surrounding Rasheed as I am of the player himself.

I just wish I knew what to expect night in and night out. Maybe the paper could start listing Rasheed’s status the same way they do the starting pitchers in baseball. If Rasheed planned to care that night, they could indicate it in the game preview. Or if he planned to be passive and lazy, they could let us know too."

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080818/SPORTS03/80818064/1

ESPN fan poll questions after Wallace was traded by Portland:

"Would you want Rasheed Wallace on your team?" Over half of all fans replied, "No, he's too much trouble."

"Is this a good trade for Portland?" The majority of fans said, "Yes, because they got rid of Rasheed Wallace and got good ''character'' guys."

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/polling?event_id=577&action=1&que

 

[MARIS61]

Dwight Jaynes????

Talk about a desperate reference.

 

[ehizzy3]

the hate for sheed is despicable.

 

[crandc]

Maris, I am not going to get into a debate with you and sidetrack the thread. I was asked a reasonable question as to why I include Shawn Kemp in my Patterson/Wells shit list. I answered. You are free to disagree. End of discussion.

 

[Denny Crane]

IMO, that doesn't look like the resume of a "borderline HOF'er" to me.

- I don't think too many "key players" on a championship team on borderline HOF. It seems to me he would have to be THE key player. Maybe I should take a closer look at the existing HOF list.

- I think saying "-- One of the best defenders in the NBA for more than a decade" is a bit kind. Sheed has never been on an All-defense team. If he were truly "one of the best defenders" he surely would have made at least one all-defense team. I think he is a good to very good defender, but not one of the best.

- The rest of those stats don't appear to be HOF level, but maybe I have it in my mind that HOF is a higher caliber than it really is. How many other players get to those rankings simply by playing in the league for many, many (13) years?

The HOF is rather choosy. About 10 players per decade get in. Sheed's not on my list of likely HOFers currently playing, but he is in the tier of guys right behind those who are sure to get in.

A lot of people say the Pistons' championship team had no star players, yet I think they had 3 of the best players in the league: Ben Wallace, Billups, and especially Sheed. Sheed was THE goto guy on winning teams for almost his entire (long, too) career. His teams won.

I do think the guy's been an asshat of a personality the whole time, but that doesn't distract me from his passion to win and play the game.

 

[Masbee]

Is that right? You might want to check out the following quotes by NBA analysts, reporters, and fans regarding one Rasheed Wallace:

Dwight Jaynes, The Portland Tribune:



http://www.portlandtribune.com/sports/story.php?story_id=23027

Jamie Samuelsen, Detroit Free-Press



http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080818/SPORTS03/80818064/1

ESPN fan poll questions after Wallace was traded by Portland:



http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/polling?event_id=577&action=1&que

Do you have problems reading?

Jaynes called Sheed an embarassment.

That is not the same as loser, cancer or underachiever.

Besides, Jaynes is a columnist. Columnists by definition throw shit against a wall to see what sticks.

 

[Shooter]

Do you have problems reading?

Jaynes called Sheed an embarassment.

That is not the same as loser, cancer or underachiever.

Try reading my entire post, why don't you? The second link I provided contains a quote that speaks directly to Wallace's "underachieving" style of play, and the ESPN poll provides clear evidence that many fans regard Wallace as a loser and a cancer.

I think you're the one who has reading problems.

 

[Ed O]

Try reading my entire post, why don't you? The second link I provided contains a quote that speaks directly to Wallace's "underachieving" style of play, and the ESPN poll provides clear evidence that many fans regard Wallace as a loser and a cancer.

I think you're the one who has reading problems.

"Many fans" are morons. I bet many of those fans believe in ghosts and don't know where Australia is on a map. Who gives a shit about an ESPN poll?

The Detroit columnist talked about Rasheed being "most frustrating". Even assuming we care about the opinion of a columnist, there is nothing there to indicate he thought he was a cancer or a loser. In fact, he admits that Rasheed is very important to the team.

You're grasping at straws, man, as ever, in your crusade against Rasheed.

Ed O.