Rate how you feel about Oden righ now.

[MrJayremmie]

I picked a little disappointed. But when I think about it, if he would not have any trouble with fouls and could play 30-35mpg, he WOULD be meeting my expectations of about 12, 9 an 1.5... maybe even better than that.

But as of right now he hasn't met my expectations.

Anyone who thought he would do better then he has after missing an entire year of basketball and returning from microfracture surgery is a fool.

I think that is way off. If he simply stayed out of foul trouble he should be doin' better than 8.5ppg and 7.5rpg and 1bpg... At the beginning of the year IDK if I saw one person say that they predicted 8 and 7 and 1 for Greg this year... but once mid-season comes along you see a bunch of them saying if you expected any more you are a fool or don't know bball and I think that is bull shit.

That being said, I think i'm going to judge Greg season from what he does here on out. From the all-star break to the end of the year... and i'm hoping for around 11 and 9 and 1.

 

[Sug]

I think that is way off. If he simply stayed out of foul trouble he should be doin' better than 8.5ppg and 7.5rpg and 1bpg...

Is it his fault that the guards simply let their guys go freely to the bucket? It is not like the guy is fouling his man because he cannot defend the post. I would say 80% of his fouls occur because someone else has blown their assignment.

 

[MrJayremmie]

Is it his fault that the guards simply let their guys go freely to the bucket? It is not like the guy is fouling his man because he cannot defend the post. I would say 80% of his fouls occur because someone else has blown their assignment.

I think it is partly his fault because most of the time Joel deals with the same thing. I think our poor perimeter defense and our constant switching on the perimeter contribute to his foul trouble, but a lot of the time he brings his arms down, he doesn't move his feet, he goes to block/challenge a player when he should just let it go and not pick up the foul... etc.

But either way, I said if he didn't get in so much foul trouble he would probably be performing to my expectations. I don't see how that is a bad thing. I think i'm past the point where I like to use excuses for anyone though.

 

[Pinwheel1]

It's one of the flaws, maybe only flaw, that KP has. He's too buddy-buddy, father figure, friend than a boss. Having the relationship and mentality he vastly overrated a lot of the players on the team. It's one of the reasons, IMO, why Sergio Rodriguez is still on the roster. Probably same thing can be said about Outlaw.

Funny but I see that as his strength. With most our GM's I have always worried "OMG would we be that stupid"?But with KP I never worry. (Well maybe a little) But I have faith in the fact he sees the long term picture and won't be swayed by "the moment". Stability and patience is not a bad thing.

Also I think it is a joke that he vastly over rates our players. How could any of us or the other GM's really know that for sure? Maybe the guy just knows how to play poker.

 

[B-Roy]

Anyone who thought he would do better then he has after missing an entire year of basketball and returning from microfracture surgery is a fool.

9/7?

Are you serious?

In that thread the other poster was talking about, most everyone was predicting at least 10/10 for Oden. Now they are excusing him because of "foul troubles". The fact that he still hasn't solved the foul problems should be a sign of disappointment. Like I said, I'm not down on him, but I expected him to have a better season.

 

[BrianFromWA]

This'll sound like a homer post. So be it.

As stated above, my predictions/expectations for Greg this year were that Nate wouldn't use him much on offense (b/c we'd have Roy, LMA and Webster as options over him the starting 5), and that he would be a game-changer on defense and rebounding, which were our two weakest parts of the game last year.

I didn't think that Nate would be holding his minutes up. He's fouled out of 4 games all year, same as LMA. Yes, he does get a lot of fouls called on him, and yes, they're increasingly dumb ones. But it seems as if Nate looks for an excuse to take him off the floor (6 minute point of the 1st/3rd quarter, 2 fouls in the 1st, 3 fouls before halftime, 4 fouls in the 3rd, 5 fouls anytime). That's the CW, I guess...but most of the CW doesn't have a game-changer like Oden.

Since Jan 1, 2009 his FG% is 61%. In his last 12 games, he has 2 games under 50% shooting and 4 games above 75% shooting. He's middle of the pack in turnovers by centers. His per36's are 15/12.5/1.8. If you choose to say he hasn't met your expectations b/c he hasn't been on the floor, fine. But he's exceeded most people's expectations in his production while he's on the floor. If only he didn't ask out of the game so much.

Oh, wait...

 

[PapaG]

9/7?

Are you serious?

In that thread the other poster was talking about, most everyone was predicting at least 10/10 for Oden. Now they are excusing him because of "foul troubles". The fact that he still hasn't solved the foul problems should be a sign of disappointment. Like I said, I'm not down on him, but I expected him to have a better season.

I was going to add something similar. A lot of posters who voted that Oden had met their expectations posted in the BBF thread numbers that don't jibe with their vote in this poll. I had to post "disappointment", because my expectation I posted was (I think) 13/10 with a few blocks, and most importantly, making the lane obsolete for opposing players. It is seemingly getting to the point where people are compromising their own orginal expectations for the season in order to simply to wish away Oden's slow start to his career. I think a better choice for a poll response would have been "below my expectations" instead of "disappointment", however. Disappointment doesn't really capture my take on Greg, but it was the closest option available.

 

[BrianFromWA]

PapaG, was that 13/10 in 48 minutes? 36? 24? 12?

You're more than entitled to your opinion, obviously, but just to toss numbers out there (in this case, 13/10) when he's not being utilized in a way that maximizes his contribution to the team? I mean, if you thought 13/10 in 36 minutes? His play exceeds that. Since the Durant/Oden thing's come up with the two games against OKC and the Rookie game, I'd liken it a bit to PJ misplaying Durant at the 2 last year. Durant struggled not b/c he was young, or he sucked, or whatever...he struggled b/c he wasn't in the position to use the skills he did have. This year, Greg's not getting the ball much on the P&R, he generally has two bodies on him while rebounding b/c our wings don't generally rebound, and he's getting <7 shots per game.

Now if he's below your expectations b/c of the easy baskets we're still giving up, I'll agree with you. I didn't think he'd be as much of a game-changer on that end (b/c our guards are still our guards), so I didn't have that high of expectation. If you did, I agree.

But the numbers? I don't see how he "is a disappointment" b/c of how much his coach plays him, or the ways that he is used.

 

[Karl Malone's Elbows]

9/7?

Are you serious?

His numbers have been improving all year long and that stat line will look better by the end of the season. That's pretty much exactly what my expectations were. Channing Frye had it nailed too. Is it really so shocking that some posters had realistic expectations for Oden?

In that thread the other poster was talking about, most everyone was predicting at least 10/10 for Oden.

He could still reach those marks. Why don't you provide a link to the thread you're talking about, then we can see who exactly voted for what. Anyway, you're talking apples and oranges. One thread is about full season stats, this thread is about first half of the season stats.

The fact that he still hasn't solved the foul problems should be a sign of disappointment. Like I said, I'm not down on him, but I expected him to have a better season.

This is just really uninformed. All rookie big men have foul troubles like Oden does. There is nothing out of the ordinary at all with Oden's fouls, nor is there any negative conclusion that can logically be drawn by them. Just over emotional and uninformed banter.

 

[B-Roy]

His numbers have been improving all year long and that stat line will look better by the end of the season. That's pretty much exactly what my expectations were. Channing Frye had it nailed too. Is it really so shocking that some posters had realistic expectations for Oden?

Posters didn't have realistic expectations. That's the thing.

He could still reach those marks. Why don't you provide a link to the thread you're talking about, then we can see who exactly voted for what. Anyway, you're talking apples and oranges. One thread is about full season stats, this thread is about first half of the season stats.

I'm comparing it as I see it now. Obvious he could still reach that mark if he averages 11pts/13rbds for the rest of the year. Do you see that happening though?

I'll try to dig up that Oden thread. It's on BBF.

This is just really uninformed. All rookie big men have foul troubles like Oden does. There is nothing out of the ordinary at all with Oden's fouls, nor is there any negative conclusion that can logically be drawn by them. Just over emotional and uninformed banter.

People expected him to have foul troubles, but not to the extent of which he's having to play 18 mins every other night because he can't stay on the court. He's improving slowly, but just very slowly.......

 

[Karl Malone's Elbows]

Posters didn't have realistic expectations. That's the thing.

That's a pretty bold statement and one I personally refute. Like I said you should go and find that thread and if you want you can call out individual posters.

I'm comparing it as I see it now. Obvious he could still reach that mark if he averages 11pts/13rbds for the rest of the year. Do you see that happening though?

No.

 

[B-Roy]

That's a pretty bold statement and one I personally refute. Like I said you should go and find that thread and if you want you can call out individual posters.

Doubt I'll have much luck, but I'm sure people here at least remember some semblance of the thread. (Like PapaG)

 

[BrianFromWA]

TBpup on Olive, iirc, had an entire spreadsheet made up. I wasn't on BBF

 

[Rodolfo]

Is it his fault that the guards simply let their guys go freely to the bucket? It is not like the guy is fouling his man because he cannot defend the post. I would say 80% of his fouls occur because someone else has blown their assignment.

Greg's met my expectations. I expected him to struggle with fouls and that's been one of his biggest problems. Guards letting their man go right by them on a regular basis isn't helping. I think it's safe to say that Sergio has the slowest feet I've(we've) seen in a Blazer PG in a Looooong time. When's he's been out of foul trouble he's a lock for a double double. All of his help defense stuggles can be attributed to his latteral quickness, which will return in time. He will get better. Looking forward to seeing him improve even more in the latter part of the season.

 

[B-Roy]

TBpup on Olive, iirc, had an entire spreadsheet made up. I wasn't on BBF

I believe it was also posted on BBF.

He wanted opinions from everyone.

 

[Rodolfo]

I think a better choice for a poll response would have been "below my expectations" instead of "disappointment", however. Disappointment doesn't really capture my take on Greg, but it was the closest option available.

How about "Underwhelming"?

 

[Ghost Pepper]

I for one don't think we've seen the REAL ODEN YET!!! I don't know if it's a mental thing or what but if this kid every synchs his mind and body at the same time the league is in trouble. We see glimpes of it and that is exciting!

 

[PapaG]

PapaG, was that 13/10 in 48 minutes? 36? 24? 12?

You're more than entitled to your opinion, obviously, but just to toss numbers out there (in this case, 13/10) when he's not being utilized in a way that maximizes his contribution to the team? I mean, if you thought 13/10 in 36 minutes? His play exceeds that. Since the Durant/Oden thing's come up with the two games against OKC and the Rookie game, I'd liken it a bit to PJ misplaying Durant at the 2 last year. Durant struggled not b/c he was young, or he sucked, or whatever...he struggled b/c he wasn't in the position to use the skills he did have. This year, Greg's not getting the ball much on the P&R, he generally has two bodies on him while rebounding b/c our wings don't generally rebound, and he's getting <7 shots per game.

Now if he's below your expectations b/c of the easy baskets we're still giving up, I'll agree with you. I didn't think he'd be as much of a game-changer on that end (b/c our guards are still our guards), so I didn't have that high of expectation. If you did, I agree.

But the numbers? I don't see how he "is a disappointment" b/c of how much his coach plays him, or the ways that he is used.

It was per game. Per/minute numbers have no impact on my decision.

 

[Ghost Pepper]

I for one am worried about Gregs melon. He is getting a Vince Young complex in my mind. Luckily the team isn't completely depending on him like the Titans did with Vince. Hope Greg can love this game again, so we can see just how dominant he is!

 

[oldmangrouch]

If we were talking only about his physical recovery, I would agree that he is meeting reasonable expectations. It is the mental side of things that worry me.

 

[Natebishop3]

There wasn't a "less than expectations" option, so I chose "disappointed", but I wouldn't say I'm necessarily disappointed. I think he's a little less than I expected, but he certainly isn't a disappointment, not by any means.

 

[MrJayremmie]

Yeah, i agree Nate. IDK if disappointed is the correct word, he just didn't live up to the stats I predicted for him.

 

[Natebishop3]

Yeah, i agree Nate. IDK if disappointed is the correct word, he just didn't live up to the stats I predicted for him.

The parts that I couldn't predict were:

1) The refs being so hard on him.

2) His teammates being such bad.... teammates.

3) McMillan being so bad at utilizing the #1 pick in the draft.

 

[Minstrel]

To more fully flesh out my position on Oden: He hasn't met my expectations of per-game stats. But my expectations were based on pretty uncertain issues, like how much his surgery would affect him, how much his long lay-off from playing would affect him. Thus, there's a range that falls within "meeting my expectations." That range can't be summed up entirely by numbers, but can be described like this: considering all the factors in play, is his play so far consistent with the idea that he's a great center talent?

My answer to that question (based on observation, per-minute efficiency, rate of improvement) is yes. Therefore, I selected "met my expectations."

 

[Natebishop3]

To more fully flesh out my position on Oden: He hasn't met my expectations of per-game stats. But my expectations were based on pretty uncertain issues, like how much his surgery would affect him, how much his long lay-off from playing would affect him. Thus, there's a range that falls within "meeting my expectations." That range can't be summed up entirely by numbers, but can be described like this: considering all the factors in play, is his play so far consistent with the idea that he's a great center talent?

My answer to that question (based on observation, per-minute efficiency, rate of improvement) is yes. Therefore, I selected "met my expectations."

Also, I don't think anyone is factoring in the injury at the start of the season. That had to throw him off a bit, as well.

 

[MrJayremmie]

The parts that I couldn't predict were:

1) The refs being so hard on him.

2) His teammates being such bad.... teammates.

3) McMillan being so bad at utilizing the #1 pick in the draft.

Meh, i'm not into excuses at all. You can make excuses for everyone in the league if you try hard enough. What i see in a lot of portland fans is that they are really protective of Gregory and if he doesn't have a good game its always "If you were expecting him to get X every game you don't know bball" or "The refs are taking him out of the game, he did nothing wrong" or something like that. If he has a good game nothing of the sort is brought up, but if he struggles then "He is coming off microfracture". Its the exact thing that I really dislike about Mike Barrett, beccause there is always an excuse for the Blazers not playing well... "tired legs"... "refs calling it one-sided"... etc... So I decided that i'm just going to let it play out and know that he is only going to better. I just believe in him and I try to let his play do the talking and not have to rationalize it.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Greg is coming off of MF surgery but his skill level is extremely exaggerated. His footwork is mediocre. His post game is Jamaal Magloire-esqe. I've never seen such poor post moves since the Vladamir Stepania days. How many times must he be told to keep his hands straight up on defense? He either had A.D.D. or has severe performance anxiety. He is a good passer and has decent court vision from the block but the rest of his game, specifically defense and post moves, is not even close to being NBA caliber.

 

[LittleAlex]

9/7?

Are you serious?

In that thread the other poster was talking about, most everyone was predicting at least 10/10 for Oden. Now they are excusing him because of "foul troubles". The fact that he still hasn't solved the foul problems should be a sign of disappointment. Like I said, I'm not down on him, but I expected him to have a better season.

I am dead serious. Did you think for one second a Portland rookie center wouldn't be in constant foul trouble? If so, you haven't been paying attention the last 30 years.

If Oden had not gotten hurt in the first game of the season, then I would say his numbers should be better by now. However, that lowered the number of games he played, which has hindered his development. He has improved steadily over the course of the season, and has had some big games. Consistency is an issue obviously, but that was to be expected.

Further, he isn't going to be the first, second or third offensive option on the floor, so he isn't going to score a whole lot. Further still, for much of the season Portland has been a long range jump shooting team, which somewhat negates Oden's ability to get position for rebounds.

Yes, his stats are what I was expecting them to be in Feb. They are what I expect them to be at the end of the season.

If he doesn't make a jump similar to the jump LA made from Rookie to Soph seasons, then we can talk about disappointment. But to say he is a disappointment right now only means your expectations were pretty damn stupid.

 

[Natebishop3]

Meh, i'm not into excuses at all. You can make excuses for everyone in the league if you try hard enough. What i see in a lot of portland fans is that they are really protective of Gregory and if he doesn't have a good game its always "If you were expecting him to get X every game you don't know bball" or "The refs are taking him out of the game, he did nothing wrong" or something like that. If he has a good game nothing of the sort is brought up, but if he struggles then "He is coming off microfracture". Its the exact thing that I really dislike about Mike Barrett, beccause there is always an excuse for the Blazers not playing well... "tired legs"... "refs calling it one-sided"... etc... So I decided that i'm just going to let it play out and know that he is only going to better. I just believe in him and I try to let his play do the talking and not have to rationalize it.

The only one of the three that could be perceived as an "excuse" would be #1, the rest are legit. I just call em like I see em.

 

[B-Roy]

Yes, his stats are what I was expecting them to be in Feb. They are what I expect them to be at the end of the season.

What were your predictions?