re: Dame - “He’s Gonna Be One of the Richest Players in NBA History, With Zero Titles.

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I would argue that Bill Walton was the far superior player.

A player averages 30pts, 7rebs, 5 assists in a series all the time. Seems like every series has a guy who does that. How often do players have 19pts, 19rebs, 5 assists, and nearly 4 blocks over a series? Not very often.

And Dr J's defense was HORRIBLE. So lazy.

In interviews Dr Jack even called him a lazy defender, and he set our offense up to take advantage Dr J's lazy defensive tendencies.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1977-nba-finals-trail-blazers-vs-76ers.html

He averaged 2.7 steals a game and thats a lazy defender? Wish the Blazers had that lazy player lol... The problem is Blocks and Steals dont always tell the story on if you’re a great defender.

Walton was one of the best rebounders in the history of the sport, and he was incredibly gifted at getting the ball and passing out of it. Watching that series one of the things that I thought was interesting is we would kill Walton today, he missed so many easy shots, also 30 ppg for a wing before the 3 pointer is pretty good, yeah guys get to that a lot now but the 3 pointer is a big reason why guards score so much, seeing a guard go 4-9 from 3 is a typical day and thats 12 points before we even go to all the FT’s guards get.

Its not that Walton wasnt great, he was. Just I thought the front court in general for the Blazers pretty much kicked Philly’s butt, it wasnt just Walton.

Dr. J was really good, can you imagine what he wouldve scored today with a 3 point line?

 

[Propagandist]

Lol. He's black. It's not strange at all.

 

[Phatguysrule]

He averaged 2.7 steals a game and thats a lazy defender? Wish the Blazers had that lazy player lol... The problem is Blocks and Steals dont always tell the story on if you’re a great defender.

Walton was one of the best rebounders in the history of the sport, and he was incredibly gifted at getting the ball and passing out of it. Watching that series one of the things that I thought was interesting is we would kill Walton today, he missed so many easy shots, also 30 ppg for a wing before the 3 pointer is pretty good, yeah guys get to that a lot now but the 3 pointer is a big reason why guards score so much, seeing a guard go 4-9 from 3 is a typical day and thats 12 points before we even go to all the FT’s guards get.

Its not that Walton wasnt great, he was. Just I thought the front court in general for the Blazers pretty much kicked Philly’s butt, it wasnt just Walton.

Dr. J was really good, can you imagine what he wouldve scored today with a 3 point line?

Yes, he was a lazy defender. He left Gross wide open constantly because he was too lazy to keep up or fight through/get around screens.

Getting steals doesn't mean you're a good defender. If you gamble to get 3 steals per game and overcommit and miss, allowing 4 easy buckets per game you are not a good defender.

Further, if Dr Jack says a guy is a lazy defender you can take that to the bank.

Also, not to say Dr J was a bad player. But Bill Walton will tell you today that overall, Gross outplayed Dr J.

Yes Portlands bigs were insane.

 

[Jade Falcon]

That was one of the funniest fucking things I've ever seen. Thanks for that!

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Yes, he was a lazy defender. He left Gross wide open constantly because he was too lazy to keep up or fight through/get around screens.

Getting steals doesn't mean you're a good defender. If you gamble to get 3 steals per game and overcommit and miss, allowing 4 easy buckets per game you are not a good defender.

Further, if Dr Jack says a guy is a lazy defender you can take that to the bank.

Also, not to say Dr J was a bad player. But Bill Walton will tell you today that overall, Gross outplayed Dr J.

Yes Portlands bigs were insane.

Well Bill Walton would tell me a whole bunch of crazy things. It’s also him talking about his teammate, Id be pretty shocked if he said anything other than that, he also tells us how awesome the PAC12 is at basketball all the time (they aren't good).

The same can be said for shot blocking you can gamble and get blocks but also give up a lot of easy baskets.

Obviously Bill was great, and great in that series, but I really thought Erving was pretty unstoppable, Blazers can trash him all they want and say Gross out played him (he didnt), but they didnt seem to have an answer for him other than hope he missed.

 

[dviss1]

 

[Hoopguru]

I recently watched the 1977 finals and I think DR. J was better than Walton, but the Blazers were a better team and had players in positions that could take advantage of the 76ers. Im not trying to put down Walton but the Blazers had no idea how to stop Dr. J, that dude was unbelievable.

Walton made players around him much better.
Bob Cousy himself at the old Virginia cafe, after about 50 games in of the 77/78 season, while being interview said Walton was the best player on Earth and probably the best center to ever play the game. He also was quoted saying "This Blazer team could be the best Team he's ever seen play". All that coming form a guy that always spoke his mind and was one heck of a ICON himself.
That 76er team was that era's super team, loaded with big time star players.
Dr. J was a super star and right up there especially as an athlete, but he didn't make players around him better like Bill in fact I believe it took Moses Malone to help Dr. J get his first ring.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Well Bill Walton would tell me a whole bunch of crazy things. It’s also him talking about his teammate, Id be pretty shocked if he said anything other than that, he also tells us how awesome the PAC12 is at basketball all the time (they aren't good).

The same can be said for shot blocking you can gamble and get blocks but also give up a lot of easy baskets.

Obviously Bill was great, and great in that series, but I really thought Erving was pretty unstoppable, Blazers can trash him all they want and say Gross out played him (he didnt), but they didnt seem to have an answer for him other than hope he missed.

If he was unstoppable he should have just scored more than the Blazers all by himself though, right? Seriously though, their answer for him was to expose him at the other end. He gave up a ton of easy buckets. If you are being attacked by a player like Bobby Gross (no offense intended to Gross) as a feature of the opponents offense you are not the best player in that series (ie. James Harden).

Dr. J was the best scorer in that series though, no question.

Bill Walton was the better defender, rebounder, and better at every other aspect of the offense.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

If he was unstoppable he should have just scored more than the Blazers all by himself though, right? Seriously though, their answer for him was to expose him at the other end. He gave up a ton of easy buckets. If you are being attacked by a player like Bobby Gross (no offense intended to Gross) as a feature of the opponents offense you are not the best player in that series (ie. James Harden).

Dr. J was the best scorer in that series though, no question.

Bill Walton was the better defender, rebounder, and better at every other aspect of the offense.

Couldnt you say that maybe part of Philly’s game plan was to let Gross who wasn’t a scorer, beat them?
I mean Gross scored more than 20 all of two times. Its like declaring that Meyers Leonard out played Draymond, or Kevon Looney in the wcf’s.

I mean to the winner goes the spoils I guess and Bill won and was legitimately when healthy one of the best players ever (so was Dr. J).

Dr. J was really good in that series especially in game 6, ultimately though I felt like the difference was the front court of Portland was dominant all around, where as Philly was basically Erving and Doug Collins. In an era of Bigs (with no 3 point line).

Walton, Lucas and Neal basically owned the paint, you dont expect a SF to do that.

The difference wasnt Ervings bad defense it was they didnt have the front court on par with Portlands.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Walton made players around him much better.
Bob Cousy himself at the old Virginia cafe, after about 50 games in of the 77/78 season, while being interview said Walton was the best player on Earth and probably the best center to ever play the game. He also was quoted saying "This Blazer team could be the best Team he's ever seen play". All that coming form a guy that always spoke his mind and was one heck of a ICON himself.
That 76er team was that era's super team, loaded with big time star players.
Dr. J was a super star and right up there especially as an athlete, but he didn't make players around him better like Bill in fact I believe it took Moses Malone to help Dr. J get his first ring.

For the record, Im in no way trying to take credit away from Walton or the Blazers they flat out beat them, and they were huge under dogs, and the next year they wouldve won again if their entire team hadnt been injured.

Maybe saying Dr. J was better than Walton was hyperbole, but about half way through game 5, I looked at my dad and was like you forget how good Dr. J was, it wasnt just the dunking either, that dude was freaking awesome to watch, offensively he could get basically anywhere he wanted, I mean were talking about Gross, Gross was on the all nba defensive team and Dr. J, could get to the spots he wanted.

Really though while Walton great in his own right my two take aways after watching all of them was dang Erving was good, and my goodness Portlands front court dominated the last 4 games of that series. It was a parade to the paint.

 

[Phatguysrule]

For the record, Im in no way trying to take credit away from Walton or the Blazers they flat out beat them, and they were huge under dogs, and the next year they wouldve won again if their entire team hadnt been injured.

Maybe saying Dr. J was better than Walton was hyperbole, but about half way through game 5, I looked at my dad and was like you forget how good Dr. J was, it wasnt just the dunking either, that dude was freaking awesome to watch, offensively he could get basically anywhere he wanted, I mean were talking about Gross, Gross was on the all nba defensive team and Dr. J, could get to the spots he wanted.

Really though while Walton great in his own right my two take aways after watching all of them was dang Erving was good, and my goodness Portlands front court dominated the last 4 games of that series. It was a parade to the paint.

I'm not making the argument that Gross was better than Dr J. Just Walton. But I've seen interviews in which both Jack Ramsey and Walton grinned at the idea of Dr J playing defense. And Walton specifically said Gross outplayed Dr J.

Yes, Walton says a lot of stuff. But Portland obviously wasn't concerned with Dr J scoring. Him scoring a lot was part of Portlands game plan.

The 76ers were a lot more than Dr J and Collins. Philadelphia themselves will tell you that their bench alone would have made the playoffs that season.

Dr J scoring a ton of points was exactly what that team didn't need if it wanted to hang with Portland. It needed a lot more passing and teamwork.

Yes Dr J was one of the best players of all time. A fantastic scorer. An absolute joy to watch. Nobody is arguing that point.

But Walton was a better basketball player when he was healthy. Walton was the best player in the world when he was healthy. He did everything. Anything his team needed, that's what he did.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I'm not making the argument that Gross was better than Dr J. Just Walton. But I've seen interviews in which both Jack Ramsey and Walton grinned at the idea of Dr J playing defense. And Walton specifically said Gross outplayed Dr J.

Yes, Walton says a lot of stuff. But Portland obviously wasn't concerned with Dr J scoring. Him scoring a lot was part of Portlands game plan.

The 76ers were a lot more than Dr J and Collins. Philadelphia themselves will tell you that their bench alone would have made the playoffs that season.

Dr J scoring a ton of points was exactly what that team didn't need if it wanted to hang with Portland. It needed a lot more passing and teamwork.

Yes Dr J was one of the best players of all time. A fantastic scorer. An absolute joy to watch. Nobody is arguing that point.

But Walton was a better basketball player when he was healthy. Walton was the best player in the world when he was healthy. He did everything. Anything his team needed, that's what he did.

Philly was a really good team back then and had a lot of talent, but really Collins and Erving were the only ones who “showed up” consistently in that series.

Walton was definitely the most talented Blazer ever, no doubt about it.

 

[BBert]

He averaged 2.7 steals a game and thats a lazy defender? Wish the Blazers had that lazy player lol... The problem is Blocks and Steals dont always tell the story on if you’re a great defender.

Walton was one of the best rebounders in the history of the sport, and he was incredibly gifted at getting the ball and passing out of it. Watching that series one of the things that I thought was interesting is we would kill Walton today, he missed so many easy shots, also 30 ppg for a wing before the 3 pointer is pretty good, yeah guys get to that a lot now but the 3 pointer is a big reason why guards score so much, seeing a guard go 4-9 from 3 is a typical day and thats 12 points before we even go to all the FT’s guards get.

Its not that Walton wasnt great, he was. Just I thought the front court in general for the Blazers pretty much kicked Philly’s butt, it wasnt just Walton.

Dr. J was really good, can you imagine what he wouldve scored today with a 3 point line?

Petrie would have scored more.

 

[borim69]

BBIQ is what beat the 76ers. Walton and Gross had probably the best BBIQ in the game at that time. Walton and Gross got under the 76ers skin as did the rest of the Blazers. It was probably the most perfect team to ever win a championship. Each player was a journeyman at his position and excelled well. Each person on his own (outside of Walton) was not a superstar and is not on any top 20 list, For 3 years when those 5 players got on the floor they knew without a doubt they could beat anyone in the league as long as they were together. It was not a fluke it was a dynasty that never happened due to injury.

 

[Hoopguru]

For the record, Im in no way trying to take credit away from Walton or the Blazers they flat out beat them, and they were huge under dogs, and the next year they wouldve won again if their entire team hadnt been injured.

Maybe saying Dr. J was better than Walton was hyperbole, but about half way through game 5, I looked at my dad and was like you forget how good Dr. J was, it wasnt just the dunking either, that dude was freaking awesome to watch, offensively he could get basically anywhere he wanted, I mean were talking about Gross, Gross was on the all nba defensive team and Dr. J, could get to the spots he wanted.

Really though while Walton great in his own right my two take aways after watching all of them was dang Erving was good, and my goodness Portlands front court dominated the last 4 games of that series. It was a parade to the paint.

TBF...I totally agree about Dr.J and how dominate he was and how he could get a shot anytime he wanted. I respect your opinion greatly because know you are a student of the game as well as a fan.
It is tough to compare wings with the big posts guys of the past as their games were very different.
Waltons College career I followed closely and his ability to see the court while getting a rebound was scary as it appeared he had eyes behind his head. His outlet pass's, the best ever that I saw.
Bill could have scored many more points per game but he enjoyed the offense going through him and those back door pass's, wow. They both are top 10 all time imo.

 

[LayneStaley]

Pretty sure all the acid took away from Walton’s game towards the end.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

TBF...I totally agree about Dr.J and how dominate he was and how he could get a shot anytime he wanted. I respect your opinion greatly because know you are a student of the game as well as a fan.
It is tough to compare wings with the big posts guys of the past as their games were very different.
Waltons College career I followed closely and his ability to see the court while getting a rebound was scary as it appeared he had eyes behind his head. His outlet pass's, the best ever that I saw.
Bill could have scored many more points per game but he enjoyed the offense going through him and those back door pass's, wow. They both are top 10 all time imo.

I go out for walks with my dad 4-5 times a week still, it's fun! We talk about basketball a lot and today we were continuing this discussion a bit, and I was telling him that watching that series really makes you appreciate how different the NBA is today, not just the 3 point line but the amount of 3's taken, and how it's spread out teams and has de-empathized bigs. Walton was ridiculous back then, and it's a shame that they've almost made that type of player an after-thought. For one thing, they ran a lot of fast breaks, for layups. Now trailers and wings mostly run to the 3 point line and the corners.

Again I loved Bill Walton, he was awesome my comment was in no way meant as a shot at him.

Maybe I was looking at it too much from the eyes of 2019, both guys were special no doubt about it.

 

[stampedehero]

Shannon Sharpe still doesn't know how to use his teeth for pronunciation. He could never win a title as a broadcaster sports show host.