REAL TRUTH ON 9/11

[ortiz34]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bobferg @ Mar 26 2006, 08:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ortiz34 @ Mar 26 2006, 07:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Okay, I didn't watch that video, but I do have something to say. After all this, Muslims, specifically Arabs, get looked at like in America like we're shit. If this whole conspiracy is true, or not......99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999998% of Muslims are not terrorists, but soem Americans believe that we all are just because some Muslims did this, which might've not even been done by Muslims, rather your president who you all look up to, Bush. Not part of this arguement, but just thought I'd share that because I am a Muslim and I have to go through all this shit that Bush probably planted.</div>it isn't just muslims man, the terror threat is about everyone. I work for FedEx. It is a great company with some of the greatest benefits i have ever seen. I am a part time employee and I only pay 7 dollars a week for full health, vision and dental insurence. But the best perk of my job was something called jump-seating. If you have seen the movie castaway then you know what I am talking about. any employee who has 6 months of service under their belt is allowed to jump on any fed ex plane and fly to the destination of their choice. Well they cancelled that when I had 5 1/2 months under my belt. They cancelled it because of threats. SO this really affects everyone. I know what you are going through, a very good friend of mine is half pakistani and half indian, Going through the airport with him is hell. just hang in there, we as a country are going to get though this. But it sure doesn;t help when people sit on their ass and do nothing but bitch.</div>Am I bitching though? I'm just saying what we are going through, and this might take a lot of years to get through, this is one of the most powerful terroisist attacks in history.And I know it's not just Muslims......but we get looked at more as terrorists, don't you agree? Who would you look at as a potential terrorist?Muhammad Ahmad or Michael Johnson?

 

[AdropOFvenom]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ Apr 1 2006, 01:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ Mar 31 2006, 12:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And how exactly is the average citizen going to do an investigation of the US Government?Maybe they really did kill our own citizens to fuel a war against Iraq. But who is going to investigate the US Government? The CIA?, The FBI? They both get their paychecks from the government, they arent going to say anything bad about it. In reality there is nothing we can do about it.I personally do not believe that to be the truth though, because it would make no sense to send our citizens to the grave, then blame Afghanistan for being the cause of it if our target all along was Iraq. Then again, I would also like to believe our Government isnt going to have 2000+ human sacrifices for the sake of starting a war.</div>War's are great for the economy. Sad but true. War fuels the American economy and is a large part of what pulled us out of the Depression.And how big of a sacrifice is 2,000 people to the government? Looked at in an Utilitarian point of view, more than 2000 people die every day combined from Tobacco and Alcohol. So their pointless deaths daily prove that 2000 non-natural deaths is not a huge blow to America (still speaking from a Utilitarian POV, not my own). So seeing how little matter 2,000 lives are to America, to sacrifice that amount give or take is really hardly a sacrifice at all. Like tossing 50 cents out of your pocket, in the long run you didn't lose anything meaningful. So to toss such meaningless few aside in favor of gaining national support, in favor of gaining a greater economy, in favor of gaining oil interests in the middle east, and in favor of getting this administrations own personal agenda furthered would not only be a good trade off, it would be too great a trade off to even consider passing on. Tossing 50 cents out of your pocket to gain 200 dollars over the next week, and 2,000 dollars over the next 5 years not only makes sense, it would be idiocy to do otherwise.</div>But what if that tower had collapsed 30 minutes earlier? Then were looking at maybe 20,000 dead instead of 2,000. Is that still insignificant? I had a family friend and a few people I know who died in that tower and I dont find there losses insigificant at all. Not to mention how inhumane you sound trying to justify 2,000+ deaths is for the betterment of our country. Maybe our country would be better off in the long term with favorable oil interests and higher national support, but you try telling the thousands of families that lost family members that they died so our president could start a war for that (Assumeing that is the truth). Not to mention that our economy has gotten much worse since Bush has taken over office, not better. Bill Clinton might not have been the best president ever, but if there was one thing he was great for it was our economy and getting helping to get rid of our national debt.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>During the administration of William Jefferson Clinton, the U.S. enjoyed more peace and economic well being than at any time in its history. He was the first Democratic president since Franklin D. Roosevelt to win a second term. He could point to the lowest unemployment rate in modern times, the lowest inflation in 30 years, the highest home ownership in the country's history, dropping crime rates in many places, and reduced welfare rolls. He proposed the first balanced budget in decades and achieved a budget surplus. As part of a plan to celebrate the millennium in 2000, Clinton called for a great national initiative to end racial discrimination.</div> Since then, Bush has put us so far in debt its not even funny to fund his war against terrorism, and now you're trying to tell me that he is the sole cause of this war?

 

[Jon_Vilma]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ Apr 1 2006, 11:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>But what if that tower had collapsed 30 minutes earlier? Then were looking at maybe 20,000 dead instead of 2,000. Is that still insignificant? I had a family friend and a few people I know who died in that tower and I dont find there losses insigificant at all. Not to mention how inhumane you sound trying to justify 2,000+ deaths is for the betterment of our country. Maybe our country would be better off in the long term with favorable oil interests and higher national support, but you try telling the thousands of families that lost family members that they died so our president could start a war for that (Assumeing that is the truth). Not to mention that our economy has gotten much worse since Bush has taken over office, not better. Bill Clinton might not have been the best president ever, but if there was one thing he was great for it was our economy and getting helping to get rid of our national debt.</div>Wow, you didn't fully read what I wrote. You don't understand the difference between my own opinions and when I say "from a utilitarian point of view."And 20,000 is like 5 dollars instead of 50 cents, harder to give up, but the return is still greater. (Again, from the UT POV)It would never have to be sold to the families if no one ever found out. And while our economy is worse from when Bush took over, it's better since 9/11 (the initial drop off was inevitable). And to be fair, Bush did inherit a declining economy. Economies go through peaks and valleys and the first 2-3 years of a presidency the economy is really what the previous president had done. The economy had peaked during the 7th year of the Clinton administration and was headed downhill into the Bush era. Now Bush didn?t do much to stop the ball from rolling downhill, but that is the way it was headed anyhow.

 

[bobferg]

Most of you guys are way to young to understand this, but most of the time when the economy is bad under a president it is bad becuase of the president who was in office before him. Anyone's economic plan will take awhile to come into effect. When Bush took over office the economy immeaditly crashed and yet people say this is his fault? I guess that is neither here nor there but just throwing it out there.

 

[Jon_Vilma]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bobferg @ Apr 1 2006, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Most of you guys are way to young to understand this, but most of the time when the economy is bad under a president it is bad becuase of the president who was in office before him. Anyone's economic plan will take awhile to come into effect. When Bush took over office the economy immeaditly crashed and yet people say this is his fault? I guess that is neither here nor there but just throwing it out there.</div>I think I hear an echo

 

[AdropOFvenom]

By the way, this entire movie and similar conspiracy theories disproven for the fiction that it is.http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology...aw/1227842.html

 

[JHair]

gotta show that to a friend who's real insistent that the movies were TRUE

 

[chang]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ Apr 12 2007, 04:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>By the way, this entire movie and similar conspiracy theories disproven for the fiction that it is.http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology...aw/1227842.html</div>The thing is, each physicist/engineer can take the same set of data and analyze it in different ways. Using math, simulators, small scale demonstrations, each can come up with the evidence to support their claim.So basically everyone could be right. Plus, you always have to doubt government released reports.

haha although NIST does really good tech based and structural research (my dad used to work for them, got to witness a simulated lab created earthquake on Take Your Child To Work Day)http://911scholars.org/WhoAreWe.htmlThose are scholars that disagree with ASCE and NIST reports with their own evidence.Really not sure which side to believe. All I know is that it happened and it shouldn't have.

 

[TCOF]

People who believe this crap are the stupidest people alive. And before you say anything yes I have seen this video before.In the video they say AirFone technology didn't exist in 2001.........I was playing with that crap in planes when I was 7 and I turn 18 in August.And don't pull that "there had to be explosives in the building" bs. Notice what kind of flights they hijacked? They hijacked planes going cross country. In other words planes that had tons and tons of fuel. Hmmm I believe this is basic math. Big plan + going about 500 MPH + lots of fuel + crashing into a building = explosion.You know what else? If the government didn't mind killing thousands of innocent Americans, then why is the little dude who made the video still alive? Answer me that.

 

[chang]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TCOF @ Apr 15 2007, 07:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>People who believe this crap are the stupidest people alive. And before you say anything yes I have seen this video before.In the video they say AirFone technology didn't exist in 2001.........I was playing with that crap in planes when I was 7 and I turn 18 in August.And don't pull that "there had to be explosives in the building" bs. Notice what kind of flights they hijacked? They hijacked planes going cross country. In other words planes that had tons and tons of fuel. Hmmm I believe this is basic math. Big plan + going about 500 MPH + lots of fuel + crashing into a building = explosion.You know what else? If the government didn't mind killing thousands of innocent Americans, then why is the little dude who made the video still alive? Answer me that.</div>To prove that anything can be proven true and false.And while AirFone technology existed, it's not available to all domestic flights. And depending on what class you ride, sometimes there aren't one for every seat. Also, getting a reception isn't always guaranteed cause it's kinda like a cell phone. Furthermore, the AirFone server on the plane can only process so many calls. But, AirFone service is/has been discontinued on many flights.For your second question, fuel can only reach certain temperatures. It's proven by the laws of chemistry. I'm not really particularly sure what the melting point of steel is, but it is particularly high because it is reinforced alloy metal (I think that's what it's called). Burning fuel is simply an accelerant, it cannot guarantee that the temperature of a fire will increase dramatically (that's why you pour fuel on a camp fire to get the fire started really quickly but you don't keep adding fuel to make it hotter). If it was pure gas (like air), it's possible the fire became extremely hot. If you've taken chemistry, you've probably experienced using blue fire. None of your utensils melted though, metal has an extremely high melting point. But even then, it's really hard to prove how the jet fuel burned. There are a few chemical liquids and compounds that can make fire almost invisible which is as hot as a fire as you can get. There's also many other factors such as fire protection (which was probably blown off just based on the impact) that affect how things burn.And for your last question, quite simple actually. If you kill someone that is trying to prove a conspiracy, to the minds of many, it proves that the conspiracy is true because it needed a cover-up. If the government killed the guy that made the video, many would believe they killed him to cover up any exposure. If the government doesn't kill the guy, they run the risk of people believing or people ignoring. It's much safer and coy to just avoid comments or denying it. Believe it or not, most people will believe the government and the press when they say that something is not true. Therefore, killing the video maker would prove fruitless and would actually fuel more conspiracy talk.

 

[GaMeTiMe]

I haven't watched this yet, I'm not going to look like some sort of freak in the school library, but I will when I get home.But you shouldn't have a concrete opinion on this. You can take ANYTHING and turn it into the biggest conspiracy theory that's ever existed, even if it is based on facts and real statistics and whatnot. Especially something so complex like 9/11. I think arguing about this is ridiculous, NONE of us know for sure and that's the way it's going to stay. We can have opinions, but calling one another "un-American" and whatnot for believing/not believing certain things is stupid. I'll share my thoughts once I watch this later

 

[datruth]

i been seen it bout a year ago. the government is fucked all up fuck bush