Regarding Isolation Stats - Ie: Blazer Offense, interesting stats

[wizenheimer]

When Portland runs the weave or does dribble handoffs way away from the basket that probably doesn't qualify as ISO since technically there are multiple players involved even though it often leads to ISO situations.

yeah, and NBA.com says Portland runs over 40 PnR & Off Screen plays a game and I know quite a few of those devolve to one-on-one. If a possession starts as a PnR but ends with Dame or CJ or Hood or Melo going iso, which one should it be counted as?

 

[noknobs]

Why don't you try and point out what it was I was saying that was wrong?

That would take too long and you'd just continue misinterpreting stats to try to make them fit into your preconceived opinion, facts be damned, and nothing would be resolved. So I thought instead I'd just agree with you on something and then enjoy my Friday night.

 

[wizenheimer]

That would take too long and you'd just continue misinterpreting stats to try to make them fit into your preconceived opinion, facts be damned, and nothing would be resolved. So I thought instead I'd just agree with you on something and then enjoy my Friday night.

LOL...yeah, sure....I've noticed you're one of those people who will condemn stats that conflict with their bias and praise stats that support that bias. And of course, accuse people who post the stats you don't like as "misinterpreting" them.

again...you chose to enter this discussion with nothing more than a little snark. I asked, politely, for you to point out what I was getting wrong , since you went out of your way to say I was. Now I'll ask what facts it is that I'm "damning"....see if you can come up with something like an argument other than your dislike of me

 

[CupWizier]

LOL...yeah, sure....I've noticed you're one of those people who will condemn stats that conflict with their bias and praise stats that support that bias. And of course, accuse people who post the stats you don't like as "misinterpreting" them.

again...you chose to enter this discussion with nothing more than a little snark. I asked, politely, for you to point out what I was getting wrong , since you went out of your way to say I was. Now I'll ask what facts it is that I'm "damning"....see if you can come up with something like an argument other than your dislike of me

and yet here you are disputing facts that don't fit your narrative and many times you post stats that fit your narrative and ignore other stats that don't support your stance. That's pretty much the definition of a hypocrite isn't it?

 

[wizenheimer]

and yet here you are disputing facts that don't fit your narrative and many times you post stats that fit your narrative and ignore other stats that don't support your stance. That's pretty much the definition of a hypocrite isn't it?

what "facts" am I disputing?

 

[CupWizier]

what "facts" am I disputing?

The link to B-Roys thread starting post by saying you were skeptical of them

 

[wizenheimer]

The link to B-Roys thread starting post by saying you were skeptical of them

those aren't facts though

it's Friday night in Oregon...that's a fact. The Blazers play the Lakers tonight...that's a fact

some website first defining what an isolation play is, then doing a tally of them according to their arbitrary definition is not a fact, in either case. it's an opinion. It may be a professional opinion considering they may get paid for it...but it's still opinion

 

[CupWizier]

those aren't facts though

it's Friday night in Oregon...that's a fact. The Blazers play the Lakers tonight...that's a fact

some website first defining what an isolation play is, then doing a tally of them according to their arbitrary definition is not a fact, in either case. it's an opinion. It may be a professional opinion considering they may get paid for it...but it's still opinion

Okay, change facts to stats. You simply like to pick and choose to fit your narrative.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I was interested in this topic because of the discussion about ball movement. The team takes too many isolation possessions and doesn't move the ball enough, etc. Well the NBA actually tracks this stuff and the data is available for free on NBA.com. Looking through the stats leads some interesting results and may explain why we ISO a lot.

Player stats:
https://stats.nba.com/players/isolation/
Dame uses 4.4 isolation possessions per game. He is 6th in the league behind 1. Harden, 2. Westbrook, 3. LeBron, 4. Giannis and 5. Siakam. His score frequency % on isolation possessions is 51%, far and away higher than anyone else above him (although his volume cannot match Harden, who uses 13.8 iso possessions per game, more than double second place, who is his teammate Westbrook at 6.6 possessions per game). His percentile is 90.7%, also significantly better than just about everyone above and behind him. Only Harden is close at 86.7%, but Harden may be the best isolation scorer in history at least in the regular season. Dame scores 1.16 points per possession on isos, making him probably the second best isolation scorer in the league when you take into account volume.

CJ uses 3.4 isolation possessions per game. He is 12th in the league but his efficiency is above average. He scores 1.00 points per possession, which makes him more efficient than everyone that uses more possessions than him besides Doncic, Ingram, Lillard and Harden.

Rodney Hood uses 1.4 isolation possessions per game but scores a godly 1.42 PPP. So yeah, Rodney has been good.

Team stats:
https://stats.nba.com/teams/isolation/?sort=PPP&dir=1

Unsurprisingly, the Blazers are second in the league in isolation possessions per game. However, they use half as many possessions (11) per game than the Rockets (22) who are first by a large margin. When you look at the 10 teams that use the most isolation possessions per game, you see some patterns.....Houston, Portland, Milwaukee, Lakers, Nets, Pelicans. Basically, they have guys that are incredibly good isolation scorers, and they tend to be star level players.

In terms of efficiency though, the Blazers are tied for first with Washington. 1.06 PPP puts them above Houston at 1.00, and they use twice as many possessions as Washington who also scores 1.06 PPP.

Now personally, I don't like watching isolation basketball. It's not very fun for the other guys on the floor. You can make the argument that other players play worse because they can't get into a rhythm. However the overall results paint Portland as an elite ISO team. As a whole, Portland is 9th in the league in offensive efficiency. They score about 1.08 PPP, so the 1.06 PPP is only slightly below that. 1.06 PPP would be 16th in the league in offensive efficiency if all our possessions were isolations. There are parts of their offense they can improve on but given the rotating door of players due to injury, sucking, etc....there are other more pressing issues to work on. Like defense. Our defense blows.

Have to say this is one of the best threads in here right now. Very interesting post and most of the posts after this are really good discussion on the subject. Thanks for taking the time to dig up these stats and take a look at it.

 

[wizenheimer]

Okay, change facts to stats. You simply like to pick and choose to fit your narrative.

bullshit

I was questioning how they define what an isolation play is because I though them saying Portland only has 11 isolation plays a game was inaccurate...and they don't explain how they define isolation on those pages that were linked

and by the way, you implied I was a hypocrite for disputing "facts"...that was bullshit too

 

[CupWizier]

bullshit

I was questioning how they define what an isolation play is because I though them saying Portland only has 11 isolation plays a game was inaccurate...and they don't explain how they define isolation on those pages that were linked

and by the way, you implied I was a hypocrite for disputing "facts"...that was bullshit too

Get over it.