Religious S-storm about intelligence

[MarAzul]

Wow! I would have guessed at least two Mensa atheist live in this forum.

So much for the intelligent atheist population. It an atheist myth.

 

[crowTrobot]

What an argument. I was replying to you saying there wasn't any. And since you believe they are atheists, then it applies. Don't get nitpickey with me agnostic

then you're just arguing about semantics (waste of time). whatever you call us the non-believers in this thread are not relying on faith in any way, so not sure who PapaG thinks he's referring to.

 

[crowTrobot]

hold on..let me retract the question..the very statement you make describes your free will..

Obviously you would disagree with me about the evidence, but I see the evidence as indicating a probability approaching 100% that Yahweh is mythological. I may have free will, but even so I do not have the choice to genuinely believe he exists.

 

[magnifier661]

then you're just arguing about semantics (waste of time). whatever you call us the non-believers in this thread are not relying on faith in any way, so not sure who PapaG thinks he's referring to.

No I was refuting your comment that no one wasted their time in this thread; which was already 4 before you. But whatever you want to argue is fine by me.

 

[crowTrobot]

No I was refuting your comment that no one wasted their time in this thread;

looked to me like you agreed arguing about semantics is a waste of time.

 

[Denny Crane]

Mensa link says 49% of US members are Christian and a tad over 20% are not religious. 3.6% are atheist.

Turns out the US is 78% Christian, and a little under 20% not religious. Just 1.6% of the US population is atheist.

If all things were equal, Chance would make it 78% of Mensa US membership are Christians. But only 49% actually are. That's called underrepresentation. Ya think?

Chance would dictate just 1.6% of Mensa membership would be atheists, but it's over twice that.

Chance would dictate that about 20% of Mensa members would be not religious, and that's pretty close to the truth. Slightly over represented, in fact. The Pew survey says only 16% are not religious, so going by that they're even more over represented.

What is the Mensa membership information from 1996 supposed to prove?

Sources:
http://mwm.us.mensa.org/faq/people.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion
http://religions.pewforum.org/reports
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism#United_States

 

[magnifier661]

looked to me like you agreed arguing about semantics is a waste of time.

I agree arguing semantics is a waste of time. I wasn't arguing that, you and vanilla were. I was arguing your fallacy that no atheists posted in this thread. A bit different.

Then again, you also assumed that the Christians believed the sun revolved around the earth.

 

[crowTrobot]

I agree arguing semantics is a waste of time. I wasn't arguing that, you and vanilla were. I was arguing your fallacy that no atheists posted in this thread. A bit different.

there is nobody here that is not agnostic about deism etc. - no atheists by PapaG's definition.

 

[PapaG]

then you're just arguing about semantics (waste of time). whatever you call us the non-believers in this thread are not relying on faith in any way, so not sure who PapaG thinks he's referring to.

There is faith involved in non-belief. Lack of proof is doesn't mean that proof doesn't exist.

 

[PapaG]

there is nobody here that is not agnostic about deism etc. - no atheists by PapaG's definition.

I have no idea what you're talking about at this point. It's long been a philosophical debate on whether belief in anything, absent of either positive or negative proof, is faith-based. No idea why you're so upset about it. Seems rather innocuous to me, and is simply my opinion.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I like this forum. They say there are two topics you don't bring up at holiday parties: religion and politics. People are so emotionally invested in these topics that to come out with an opposing view can really cause tension as it is hard to discuss the topic in an impartial way.

But on this board, we can discuss politics and religion. It might get heated as posters feel very strongly about these topics. But in the end we always come away from it respecting the other side and cheering to the Blazers. Great forum that way!

 

[DaLincolnJones]

I like this forum. They say there are two topics you don't bring up at holiday parties: religion and politics. People are so emotionally invested in these topics that to come out with an opposing view can really cause tension as it is hard to discuss the topic in an impartial way.

But on this board, we can discuss politics and religion. It might get heated as posters feel very strongly about these topics. But in the end we always come away from it respecting the other side and cheering to the Blazers. Great forum that way!

yeah..I agree for the most part

 

[chevyrunssometimes]

... this study is about as useful as the piece of toilet paper I used to wipe my ass.

Now, see? It is complete "fails" like this that they're talking about, in those studies, mags. Atheists <i>really</i> believe that the toilet paper we use to wipe our asses is useful. I mean, it's like the epitome of utility, dude.

 

[MARIS61]

I won't even get into the discussion that Atheism, in and of itself, is a belief system that isn't based on much more than faith.

Wise decision, since that's horse pucky.

 

[MarAzul]

Mensa link says 49% of US members are Christian and a tad over 20% are not religious. 3.6% are atheist.

Turns out the US is 78% Christian, and a little under 20% not religious. Just 1.6% of the US population is atheist.

If all things were equal, Chance would make it 78% of Mensa US membership are Christians. But only 49% actually are. That's called underrepresentation. Ya think?

Chance would dictate just 1.6% of Mensa membership would be atheists, but it's over twice that.

Chance would dictate that about 20% of Mensa members would be not religious, and that's pretty close to the truth. Slightly over represented, in fact. The Pew survey says only 16% are not religious, so going by that they're even more over represented.

What is the Mensa membership information from 1996 supposed to prove?

Sources:
http://mwm.us.mensa.org/faq/people.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion
http://religions.pewforum.org/reports
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism#United_States

It shows that among these people known to have a High IQ, very few came to be atheists.
Sort of surprising you needed help with making the deduction.

But then look at it another way, If there are 10 Mensa people in this forum, none are likely to be atheist. We all know there are several self identified atheist in this forum, but statistically none are likely to be also members of Mensa.

 

[Denny Crane]

It shows that among these people known to have a High IQ, very few came to be atheists.
Sort of surprising you needed help with making the deduction.

But then look at it another way, If there are 10 Mensa people in this forum, none are likely to be atheist. We all know there are several self identified atheist in this forum, but statistically none are likely to be also members of Mensa.

Interesting take. Sorta.

You don't explain why 78% of Mensa aren't Christian. If Christians were somehow smarter for being Christian, 79% or more of Mensa would be Christian, even.

If you took a room of 100 Christians, 2 would make Mensa.

If you took a room of 100 Atheists, 4 would make Mensa.

 

[magnifier661]

Interesting take. Sorta.

You don't explain why 78% of Mensa aren't Christian. If Christians were somehow smarter for being Christian, 79% or more of Mensa would be Christian, even.

If you took a room of 100 Christians, 2 would make Mensa.

If you took a room of 100 Atheists, 4 would make Mensa.

Actually your link would say otherwise; since 49% is still Mensa Christians. And atheists still make up a very small % of that group.

So to take it into perspective, 49% are Mensa, then you leave 51% available. There are two other groups, not religious and atheists. Knowing atheists are a small 6% (give you the benefit of doubt), that would mean less than 45% are non religious members.

Basically, Christians being the largest members again.

So Christians would have the largest number of smart people. Easy peezy

Edit: and to reply to your outrageous "strawman" again. The argument isn't about Christians vs. non Christians. It's about atheists vs theists. So even if you take account your fudged numbers; there are 3.8% atheists and over 50% theists.

So basically the argument that people being more intelligent will sway them to become non theists is utter bullshit. Next

 

[MarAzul]

Actually your link would say otherwise; since 49% is still Mensa Christians. And atheists still make up a very small % of that group.

So to take it into perspective, 49% are Mensa, then you leave 51% available. There are two other groups, not religious and atheists. Knowing atheists are a small 6% (give you the benefit of doubt), that would mean less than 45% are non religious members.

Basically, Christians being the largest members again.

So Christians would have the largest number of smart people. Easy peezy

Edit: and to reply to your outrageous "strawman" again. The argument isn't about Christians vs. non Christians. It's about atheists vs theists. So even if you take account your fudged numbers; there are 3.8% atheists and over 50% theists.

So basically the argument that people being more intelligent will sway them to become non theists is utter bullshit. Next

Well said Mags. Utterly bull shit, end of story!

 

[porkchopexpress]

So, if there were 1 million Christians, 95 of which are Mensa members, and 1,000 Atheists, 5 of which are in Mensa, does that prove that Christians are smarter? Cause, you know, 95 > 5. That seems to be what you guys are arguing.

There are a lot of socio economic issues that go into this, so I don't think any of these stats really prove whether one group is in general smarter than the other. I don't really care either. I just can't understand how you guys can emphatically make that argument.

 

[magnifier661]

So, if there were 1 million Christians, 95 of which are Mensa members, and 1,000 Atheists, 5 of which are in Mensa, does that prove that Christians are smarter? Cause, you know, 95 > 5. That seems to be what you guys are arguing.

There are a lot of socio economic issues that go into this, so I don't think any of these stats really prove whether one group is in general smarter than the other. I don't really care either. I just can't understand how you guys can emphatically make that argument.

DING DING DING DING!!!! Hence this study is Absurd! Yes finally someone that has some common sense! REPPED!

 

[Denny Crane]

porkchop got it right.

The only thing you guys got right is that there's lots more christians.

1% (are Mensa) of a billion is way bigger number than 100% of 10 (are Mensa).

 

[MarAzul]

Heh, heh, Lincolnjones got it right, Denny doesn't have exclusive rights to obtuse. He just sets the mark.

 

[magnifier661]

Heh, heh, Lincolnjones got it right, Denny doesn't have exclusive rights to obtuse. He just sets the mark.

The master of strawman, the originator of hyperbole and the poster child for obtuse.

 

[Denny Crane]

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Heh, heh, Lincolnjones got it right, Denny doesn't have exclusive rights to obtuse. He just sets the mark.

hahahaahahaaahahahhaa! ya know, every once in a while..."you must spread some around" Thanks for the laugh