Repealing Obamacare (1 Viewer)

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Denny Crane said:
Several ideas for how to replace ObamaCare will get to be proposed, debated, and voted on.

NBC says the republicans are likely to do a "skinny repeal" in the end.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/con...nny-repeal-obamacare-tuesday-s-voting-n786296

The plan after those two votes is for senators to proceed to votes on a series of amendments to create what leadership has called a “skinny” repeal, which is a watered-down version of repeal with nothing to replace it.

The goal would be to eliminate Obamacare's individual mandate penalty, the employer mandate penalty, and the tax on medical devices. A broader repeal would also have ended Medicaid's expansion, get rid of or replace the Obamacare subsidies that help people purchase insurance and repeal more — or all — of Obamacare's taxes.

The Senate would then go to conference with the House of Representatives, where conferees would work out a final bill. Both chambers would then have to vote on the reconciled bill.
​
Without the mandates, ObamaCare is no more. What you have left is some government assistance for some to buy insurance.
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Thanks for the recap. Too much info and emotion flying around on the net to pin it down.
 
The first amendment will be replacing the House bill (which I believe is what was officially put forth for the motion ot proceed vote) with a full* repeal bill from 2015. Then, when/if that fails, they'll drop that amendment and move to the Senate bill, both with and without the Cruz amendment. They're basically going to give every iteration a chance, hoping something finds 50 votes. Plus, any senator (Republican and Democrat) can propose amendments to be voted on.

Of course, the Senate parliamentarian has identified significant parts of the Senate bill that don't satisfy the Byrd rule (only budgetary changes can be made under reconciliation, not regulatory changes) and the Cruz amendment is also expected to not pass Byrd rule muster.

*As full as can be under the Byrd rule, which basically means repealing all "Obamacare taxes"
 
Why not just outlaw diseases and most injuries. Then we wouldn't need healthcare.
 
I know the Republicans are not at all sure of what to do. But do the Democrats get off clean here? Sitting on their hand doing nothing? They created this shit!

My wife and I were force into a different Insurance, at least my wife was. There was nothing on the market in our county for her to buy that was also accepted by the Doctors in Bandon or Coos Bay. So we got her a plan using our Sons address in Eugene as home for her. Well sure enough, they wouldn't pay the Doctor in North Bend. So we cancelled the damn insurance, letting it default to only Medicare, then had the Clinic in North Bend re-bill Medicare and that worked but for not having the supplemental part she should have had.

We only have Obama and the Democrats to thank for this shit we currently have today. No Republican voted for this crap.
Any one see something terrible wrong here?
When I see Chuck Schumer speak on it, I want to kick the shit out of him.
 
MarAzul said:
I know the Republicans are not at all sure of what to do. But do the Democrats get off clean here? Sitting on their hand doing nothing? They created this shit!
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I'm pretty sure they'd be happy to put in fixes to ensure stable markets and help those who's premiums are too high (with more tax-payer funded subsidies, natch)--but Republicans don't want the current health care system to succeed. They want to either repeal it or have it fail, assuming they can pin the failure on Democrats (which polls suggest they won't be able to do).
 
Denny Crane said:
I think they should let ObamaCare collapse of its own poor construction and let the blame fall where it belongs.

The better thing to do is to just repeal it, period.

Why do we want the government writing checks to the evil insurance mega corporations? That's what ObamaCare is.
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Denny, I think that would be the right thing to do, but the GOP would be blamed. Every pro-ACA person with whom I speak in my little corner of Denver blames the GOP for not "fixing" Obamacare. When I comment that not a single one voted for it, their position is that it's the law of the land and the party in power should fix it. You think the media is going to hang it around the necks of the Democrats?
 
I'm admittedly very ignorant when it comes to healthcare so bare with me.

I read about how many people are going to die if Obamacare is repealed. Granted, I lean left now that the fuck stick idiot is President, and a lot of my news intake comes from left leaning entities now, but I can't stop thinking to myself - Obamacare has been around for a relatively short period of time. Why are so many people going to supposedly die now that it might get repealed? What the fuck did we all do to stay alive prior?

Again, I'm ignorant about this, but I'm certainly interested. It just doesn't add up to me all things considered. The VAST majority of my life there was no Obamacare. Why now is it such a big deal?
 
MarAzul said:
Well it eliminated the healthcare of millions of people. There is no fixing that now though.
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No. Why is it such a big deal that it's possibly going to be repealed when we lived without it for basically ever? I know your stance on it, I've read your posts, and I actually do have sympathy for what happened. It's super fucked up. But I do think you're one track minded here considering you couldn't comprehend my original post. Not trying to be mean, but you totally missed the point
 
Is this the general sentiment? Is this the core motivation, principal, belief, perhaps without the anger? Listen, I've had health insurance through my employer or through my ex wife, or through my parents before that. That's 42 years. I legit have no idea what's going on. But I want to. And this site is a great place to ask, believe it or not. Does this guy, at his core, represent the anti-Obamacare fundamental principle? I'm not saying he's right or wrong. I'm just asking
 
The Professional Fan said:
you couldn't comprehend my original post
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Ha! Of course I got your point. And of course you are right, it isn't a big deal to repeal Obama care. The damn thing harmed more people that it helped in the end. And the end is real near one way or the other.

Repealing it is the only logical way to begin to proceed, but even so, it cannot undo the harm already done. But eventually we must move forward.
 
MarAzul said:
Ha! Of course I got your point. And of course you are right, it isn't a big deal to repeal Obama care. The damn thing harmed more people that it helped in the end. And the end is real near one way or the other.

Repealing it is the only logical way to begin to proceed, but even so, it cannot undo the harm already done. But eventually we must move forward.
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Then why did the CBO report (which I had to look up what that even was) report X amount of thousands of people will die if Obamacare is repealed? That seems like a big deal and from what I can tell the CBO is pretty legit. My question is would they have supposedly died if Obamacare never existed?
 
The Professional Fan said:
Then why did the CBO report (which I had to look up what that even was) report X amount of thousands of people will die if Obamacare is repealed? That seems like a big deal and from what I can tell the CBO is pretty legit. My question is would they have supposedly died if Obamacare never existed?
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I don't believe the CBO would try to calculate how many people might die.
 
The Professional Fan said:
It's certainly been "reported" that they did I think you know that. Are you saying it's made up by media?
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I've heard the pundits make that kind of claim. The CBO says that millions will stop paying for health care they may not want, that $400B is not borrowed by the government, since it can't already pay its bills without borrowing, and that premiums actually go down after the second or third year.

I think you were close to the point. There's no appreciable reduction in the death rates from before ObamaCare. People without insurance got care anyway.

It's also rather deceptive. If Bernie Sanders had his way, hundreds of millions would not have insurance. The focus on insurance is misplaced.
 
Simple question: The mandate is the reason these people have healthcare, right? Was it because healthcare became more affordable to individuals under Obamacare so the mandate "worked?" In their eyes?

Yet, if there's no mandate going forward, but someone is already "signed up" why would they lose their healthcare?

It's obvious that Trump is not a mental giant, but in his slight defense, this shit is really confusing as he marginally confesssed to
 
The Professional Fan said:
Simple question: The mandate is the reason these people have healthcare, right? Was it because healthcare became more affordable to individuals under Obamacare so the mandate "worked?" In their eyes?

Yet, if there's no mandate going forward, but someone is already "signed up" why would they lose their healthcare?

It's obvious that Trump is not a mental giant, but in his slight defense, this shit is really confusing as he marginally confesssed to
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A lot of people got some of their insurance subsidized. Obama promised that ObamaCare would save the government money, you can keep your doctor (etc), and would save the average family $2500/yr. None of those things are true. The CBO was wrong about the savings the scheme promised.

Again, I think the focus on insurance is the mistake. If you want people to have care, deliver actual care.

If 30M people no longer have coverage, but they can afford to pay the doctor bills, is it a bad thing?

The paying the doctor bills part is the care thing.

Millions of people lost their insurance because of ObamaCare rule changes. I know a couple hundred realtors who lost their insurance, paid more than before, and had worse coverage (paid more premiums, higher deductibles, higher copays, etc. Their insurance simply wasn't offered anymore. If the rules change again, it is presumed that the insurance policies will change accordingly.

I previously/recently showed how riverman could save thousands of dollars over ObamaCare by simply buying a catastrophic health insurance policy (with high deductible, no copays, etc.) and paying for the doctor visits and tests himself. The premiums saved easily pay for the doctor and tests. The insurance policy would limit his expense in case of heart surgery or some other really expensive ordeal.
 
Denny Crane said:
A lot of people got some of their insurance subsidized. Obama promised that ObamaCare would save the government money, you can keep your doctor (etc), and would save the average family $2500/yr. None of those things are true. The CBO was wrong about the savings the scheme promised.

Again, I think the focus on insurance is the mistake. If you want people to have care, deliver actual care.

If 30M people no longer have coverage, but they can afford to pay the doctor bills, is it a bad thing?

The paying the doctor bills part is the care thing.

Millions of people lost their insurance because of ObamaCare rule changes. I know a couple hundred realtors who lost their insurance, paid more than before, and had worse coverage (paid more premiums, higher deductibles, higher copays, etc. Their insurance simply wasn't offered anymore. If the rules change again, it is presumed that the insurance policies will change accordingly.

I previously/recently showed how riverman could save thousands of dollars over ObamaCare by simply buying a catastrophic health insurance policy (with high deductible, no copays, etc.) and paying for the doctor visits and tests himself. The premiums saved easily pay for the doctor and tests. The insurance policy would limit his expense in case of heart surgery or some other really expensive ordeal.
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Am I wrong in thinking people that couldn't afford healthcare prior to Obamacare could afford it after
 
The Professional Fan said:
Am I wrong in thinking people that couldn't afford healthcare prior to Obamacare could afford it after
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Some people could afford the new insurance, some people couldn't. Not everyone bought the mandated insurance. Tens of millions didn't.

Health care? People get sick and go to the doctor, with or without insurance. For the most part.

http://www.kff.org/uninsured/fact-sheet/key-facts-about-the-uninsured-population/

8848-04-figure-1.png


(10.5% x ~330M, they cite 27M+ under age 65 as still uninsured)

8848-04-figure-3.png




8848-04-figure-4.png
 
I'm trying to answer your question directly. This chart speaks to how people can afford to pay for care, after ObamaCare.

8848-04-figure-7.png
 
Well the Republicans lead by my man Rand Paul voted to repeal Obama Care today. Not one Democrat was smart enough to vote aye, which was expected. But Damn, seven Rhinos
voted nay! Susan Collins whom we have heard from lately, John McCain the lead Rhino, and Lamar Alexander! Four others but Alexander surprises me, I never had him as a a Obama Care guy.
They all voted to repeal the last time the Senate voted on repeal.

There is a fix coming for McCain but I imagine Trump will spend time and treasure to campaign against these other dudes next primary. I hope it is painful.
 
MarAzul said:
I imagine Trump will spend time and treasure to campaign against these other dudes next primary. I hope it is painful.
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Heh. We agree again!

This could be the start of something beautiful.

barfo
 
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