Republicans, can I ask an honest question about racism

[Denny Crane]

I grew up in Chicago. A northern city that was one of the most segregated places I've ever lived. North side is nearly all white. South side is nearly all black. It's a Democratic Party machine town. Famous for graft and trading favors for votes.

Richard J Daley was mayor there for years. In the 1960s, he got the Chicago Housing Authority to build a public housing project named Cabrini-Green. It was nice and shiny new when he invited black folk to move in. Then he build a freeway around it to keep the black people in and enterprise out. Then he let the place run down to the point where the elevators stopped working, the lead paint pealed off the walls, etc. Those poor people had to carry their groceries up 6 flights of stairs. The place was utterly crime ridden as well - which is to be expected when enterprise is kept out. There'd be stories on the news every once in a while about a child hit by a stray bullet.

How Democrat is Chicago? The mayoral candidates there win with 70% or more of the vote. Unless the candidate is a black man or woman. In 1983, Harold Washington won a 3-way mayoral primary against 2 white democrats. He ran in the general election against republican Bernard Epton, a white lawyer who was relatively unknown. Epton came within 40,000 votes (out of at least 1M votes) of winning the general election. All those "liberal" democratic white folk wouldn't vote for the black man, even though he too was democrat.

The city has been sued and had to pay out many $millions when the police were caught torturing (rubber hoses, burning victims against radiators, etc.) young black men arrested for who-knows-what.

The public schools in Chicago are a disgrace. The last time I was there, the inner city schools were tagged, windows covered with chain link or bars (like a prison), and generally run down. Not at all true of the white neighborhood schools.

There were allegations that the city zoned black neighborhoods for toxic waste dumps and the like. Hardly surprising.

Read up on Jim Crow. Those laws were all made by Democrats. The KKK was founded by Democrats and they lynched republicans.

The stuff in Chicago is plenty recent enough. I've seen similar segregation in Detroit, and the SF Bay Area. Civic planning, Democrat style.

 

[magnifier661]

please, inform me what racism is.

because I'm fairly certain saying who you vote for isn't exactly high on the list of what makes up a racist person.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Black_Panther_Party_voter_intimidation_case

How about this?

The conduct for which members of the New Black Panther Party were accused of voter intimidation took place on Election Day in November 2008, at a polling station in a predominantly African-American, Democratic voting district of Philadelphia.[1] Two members of the New Black Panther party, Minister King Samir Shabazz, and Jerry Jackson, stood in front of the entrance to the polling station in uniforms that have been described as military or paramilitary.[2][3][4] Minister King Shabazz carried a billy club, and is reported to have pointed it at voters while both men shouted racial slurs,[5] including phrases such as "white devil" and "you're about to be ruled by the black man, cracker."[6] The incident drew the attention of police, who around 10:00 am, sent King Samir away in part because of his billy club. Jackson was allowed to stay, in part because he was a certified poll watcher.[7] Stephen Robert Morse, a journalist and filmmaker, upon arriving at the scene, pulled out a Flip video camera and focused on Samir Shabazz. Morse turned over the video of the incident to ElectionJournal.org.[8] The incident gained national attention after being uploaded to YouTube.[2]
No complaints were filed by voters about the incident, although poll watchers witnessed some voters approach the polls and then turn away, apparently in response to the New Black Panther Party members.[9]

I think the term "cracker" you are going to be ruled by a black man would be a prime example of racism.

 

[Denny Crane]

please, inform me what racism is.

because I'm fairly certain saying who you vote for isn't exactly high on the list of what makes up a racist person.

Racism is thinking white people are superior to black people (or other people of color). Superior being the key word.

 

[jlprk]

Fez didn't ask for nowadays did he? Instead he said "I challenge you to find any KKK member in the history of that group who wasn't a Republican."

Pretty stupid statement on his part.

He erred and left out the word "recently." You did a good job, now do it for since the South went Republican.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

see, told you

 

[julius]

Fez asked for "I challenge you to find any KKK member in the history of that group who wasn't a Republican" and that's what I gave him. That statement by Fez shows how little he understands how political parties have changed over the years or even how racist Portland and Oregon were at times. Hell, until the early 90's the Portland Police were still tossing dead opossums in front of black owned businesses.

I understand that, but it's still comparing a party affiliation that 75-100 years later doesn't resemble the party of today. Such as the southern Democrats (really racist) and how they switched party affiliations and became Republicans.

The actions of those democrats (who didn't appreciate the more left leaning nature of the national D party) switched more towards a Republican affiliation.

There's reasons why they did that too.

Mostly an Anti-Catholic group?!? So those were Catholics they were hanging? The KKK has always been about race first.

In Pre 1940's Oregon, the KKK wasn't about Black people, but about Catholics. There weren't many blacks in Oregon in the pre-1940's Oregon and Anti-Catholicism was a much bigger issue in the West. Yes, there were groups that targeted blacks/chinese/jews whatever, but in OREGON (which is the state that the local connection that you mentioned resided in) it was mostly an Anti-Catholic group, a "mens" group, and much like an Elks lodge.

In 1915, William J. Simmons started the Ku Klux Klan for a second time. Most of the rituals and traditions of the “old” Ku Klux Klan were kept. Any white Protestant man could join the KKK. The KKK still attacked African Americans, but they also attacked Jews and Catholics this time. In 1920, growing economic problems caused the Klan to get much bigger. The KKK strongly argued for “white supremacy” again and again. “White supremacy” says that people who are white (from European origins) are better than other racial groups. The Klan killed many blacks. These were not legal executions because there were no trials. Many sources now think these acts were a kind of terrorism, because the KKK used fear to control African Americans and take away their human rights. In the middle of the 20’s the Klan got smaller due to bad leaders and so much violence. After the Second World War, the Klan closed again because it owed more money than it could pay.

In Oregon, it was more about Catholics than Blacks. Thats not to say thats how it was in other states.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Look no further than the 2008 Democrat primaries. Obama won ~97% of the black population vote over Clinton in the southern states.

Why was this question directed at Republicans?

yes the most racist people on planet earth, the blacks of the south

 

[magnifier661]

Here is another interesting article explaining the difference between parties and racism.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/08/more-racist-white-liberals-or-white-conservatives/

As you can see from just this census; there is still racism with a liberal white group towards blacks.

Now if you flip it and see how many liberal blacks are racist towards whites; I bet the bar sways far the other way.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

He erred and left out the word "recently." You did a good job, now do it for since the South went Republican.

I don't think there is a democrat or republican politician who is currently a member of the KKK.

Now if you could get me some sort of current membership list of the KKK that included pictures I could tell you which ones are democrats just by looking at them.

 

[julius]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Black_Panther_Party_voter_intimidation_case

How about this?

I think the term "cracker" you are going to be ruled by a black man would be a prime example of racism.

The term cracker is not nearly as racist as the term ******.

There isn't a history of institutionalized racism in favor of black people, by black people, put upon white people.

The laughability of some idiot saying that about 'crackers' being some kind of proof of black racism against white people being more wide spread than a really small % of blacks as whole, is high.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

your chart shows that conservatives are racist, right mags?

 

[Denny Crane]

Black people are not racist toward whites. Their rhetoric and actions are racial, not racist. The difference is quite significant.

 

[julius]

Racism is thinking white people are superior to black people (or other people of color). Superior being the key word.

exactly. Black people voting for Obama isn't about thinking they're superior, as much as it's them wanting someone who looks like them to be in charge, or they agree with his political views, or don't agree with Romneys. I have no doubt there are people who voted for Obama because he's black, but I would bet that # is much smaller than the # of those who voted for Romney because Obama is black.

Voting for Romney didn't make you racist.

 

[julius]

Keep spinning the stats. It looks pathetic.

Are you REALLY trying to claim that race was NOT a huge issue for the black vote in the 2008 primaries? REALLY?

Being an issue =/= racism.

 

[magnifier661]

your chart shows that conservatives are racist, right mags?

Racist? Actually the chart shows both parties being racist against Blacks. I would be curious on which parties interviewing blacks from both parties whom are racist towards whites. The fence goes both ways.

 

[magnifier661]

The term cracker is not nearly as racist as the term ******.

There isn't a history of institutionalized racism in favor of black people, by black people, put upon white people.

The laughability of some idiot saying that about 'crackers' being some kind of proof of black racism against white people being more wide spread than a really small % of blacks as whole, is high.

Oh so you are downplaying racism?

 

[julius]

Here is another interesting article explaining the difference between parties and racism.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/08/more-racist-white-liberals-or-white-conservatives/

As you can see from just this census; there is still racism with a liberal white group towards blacks.

Now if you flip it and see how many liberal blacks are racist towards whites; I bet the bar sways far the other way.

Um..your graphs don't actually back up what you're saying (they really don't say anything)

 

[julius]

Black people are not racist toward whites. Their rhetoric and actions are racial, not racist. The difference is quite significant.

you guys are seriously posting too quick here. I'm responding to days old shit!

But Denny is right. RacIAL, probably to yes. RacIST, no.

 

[julius]

Oh so you are downplaying racism?

No, I'm downplaying that you consider that to be racism.

 

[Denny Crane]

exactly. Black people voting for Obama isn't about thinking they're superior, as much as it's them wanting someone who looks like them to be in charge, or they agree with his political views, or don't agree with Romneys. I have no doubt there are people who voted for Obama because he's black, but I would bet that # is much smaller than the # of those who voted for Romney because Obama is black.

Voting for Romney didn't make you racist.

I have no beef with black people voting for Obama. I do think they're voting not in their best interests. Maybe it is in their interest in the long run, but Obama hasn't really done much to help.

I'll be brutally honest. I wish Obama appointed all black men and women to his cabinet and czar positions. I don't think that's a racist thing, but a sort of affirmative action thing. I think people would get used to seeing a black face associated with running the various parts of government and realize there's nothing wrong with that. It'd be schooling people to be qualified for jobs in future administrations. Plus I think the black men and women might have a better understanding of how to fix at least some of the more egregious issues that govt. has caused.

 

[magnifier661]

Um..your graphs don't actually back up what you're saying (they really don't say anything)

Really? They back up exactly what I have been saying all along. There is racism on both sides of the political view. If you can't see that; then I guess you need to take off those Rose Colored Liberal Goggles.

 

[magnifier661]

No, I'm downplaying that you consider that to be racism.

So you think that the word "cracker" is not a racist comment?

 

[Denny Crane]

So you think that the word "cracker" is not a racist comment?

What is the origin of the term "cracker" when used to describe white people?

 

[julius]

I have no beef with black people voting for Obama. I do think they're voting not in their best interests. Maybe it is in their interest in the long run, but Obama hasn't really done much to help.

I agree. I have no beef with people voting for Obama, for Romney or whatever. I also think that a LOT of people, and not just blacks, don't vote in their best interests.

And i'm not saying you are isolating blacks in that mindset.

I'll be brutally honest. I wish Obama appointed all black men and women to his cabinet and czar positions. I don't think that's a racist thing, but a sort of affirmative action thing. I think people would get used to seeing a black face associated with running the various parts of government and realize there's nothing wrong with that. It'd be schooling people to be qualified for jobs in future administrations. Plus I think the black men and women might have a better understanding of how to fix at least some of the more egregious issues that govt. has caused.

Me too. Well, not the "appointed all" thing. I want him (and any candidate) to appoint qualified people. Don't care about their color. But I do think that empowering minorities (women...well, they're not stat wise a minority, blacks, asians, latinos, etc) is better for the long run health of the country.

I don't like the idea of the OP though, I think racist ideology doesn't necessarily see itself seated in one party thinking.

In that, Republicans don't sit down and go "ook Gents..how do we keep them darkies down!".

I DO think, however, that some of the general ideology of a more conservative party DOES speak to those who are of a racist mindset. And of course, the people who are conservative are not be default racist.

I think a bigger issue with people in politics is the denial of historical racism/favortism and how institutionalized racism has played a detrimental role in certain cultures in our society. To deny that is to deny truth. And to think that we don't need to do anything to FIX it (or level the playing field) is a dangerous mindset.

That said, I'm not saying that what I just said is fixed by AA, or that more AA would fix it.

 

[julius]

Really? They back up exactly what I have been saying all along. There is racism on both sides of the political view. If you can't see that; then I guess you need to take off those Rose Colored Liberal Goggles.

Oh, sorry i thought you were ytrying to say one is more than the other. My bad

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Racist? Actually the chart shows both parties being racist against Blacks. I would be curious on which parties interviewing blacks from both parties whom are racist towards whites. The fence goes both ways.

oh im sorry, i meant more racist than liberals, not just racist in general

your chart shows that right?

 

[magnifier661]

What is the origin of the term "cracker" when used to describe white people?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cracker_(pejorative)

Cracker, sometimes white cracker or cracka, is a pejorative expression word for white people,[1] especially poor rural whites in the Southern United States. In reference to a native of Florida or Georgia, however, it can be used in a more neutral context and is sometimes used self-descriptively with pride.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pejorative

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pejorative

A pejorative[1] (also term of abuse or derogatory term) is a word or grammatical form that connotes negativity and expresses contempt or distaste.

 

[julius]

So you think that the word "cracker" is not a racist comment?

No. Because it doesn't have the historical weight of the N word.

The word cracker, if my memory serves me right, is derived from the crack of a whip.

So even the term itself is based on white people having power or control (or ownership) over slaves.

So yeah, it's not a racist comment.

 

[magnifier661]

oh im sorry, i meant more racist than liberals, not just racist in general

your chart shows that right?

Yes sir. Conservatives tend to be a little more racist against Blacks. But the general survey is only on whites and their view on Blacks. We haven't seen studies on black liberals and their view on white people. Like I said before. Racism is on both sides. There are Blacks that are racist towards whites. Anyone that disagrees isn't paying attention.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Yes sir. Conservatives tend to be a little more racist against Blacks. But the general survey is only on whites and their view on Blacks. We haven't seen studies on black liberals and their view on white people. Like I said before. Racism is on both sides. There are Blacks that are racist towards whites. Anyone that disagrees isn't paying attention.

right, nobody claims that liberals arent racist at all, just that conservatives are MORE racist