Republicans, can I ask an honest question about racism

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I do not understand identity politics. It's yet another reason I am so out of step with the direction of this country. I believe in a meritocracy. The best person for the best job. Period.
 
jlprk said:
You didn't even read as far as Post 6 or 7. Did you become rich by not doing your homework?
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I respond to the post as I go through. You pick your posting style, I pick mine. Vaya con Dios.
 
blazerboy30 said:
This is getting comical.

Julius and Denny, do you two know what the primaries and general election are?

It's like talking to Corky from Life Goes On around here.
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So blacks are only racist in primaries.
 
blazerboy30 said:
Again, you don't know how to read a dictionary. There are multiple definitions for a reason.
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Right. There are multiple definitions for a reason. I don't think they cover them all in the definition.

There is racism, where one group thinks it is superior to another. This covers all the violence and intimidation by one race against another.

There is institutionalized racism, where one group has passed laws or rules against the other(s). People today may not be racist (belief one group is superior to another), but the laws/rules still affect the targeted group.

There is a kind of racism where society has outright been designed to favor one group. White people dominate the US population to the degree where only a energized turnout by minorities and those minorities can elect a black man as president. Or even if there is a "fair" distribution of white persons' and black persons' resumes in a stack of resumes 1000 tall, there's going to be a far lesser chance the black persons' resumes even get seen.

Another form of racism is internalized by the victimized races. This is where a dominant culture drowns out the culture of the victimized race to the point the individuals lose their ethnic identity.

Things like banks redlining black neighborhoods fit the second definition you abuse. The second M-W definition covers the case where police might pull over black people in black neighborhoods and issue more tickets to those people than would happen in a white neighborhood. More specifically, it is the prejudice based upon the belief that one race is superior or another is inferior.

It simply is not racist for a black person to state that his ancestors were made slaves by white men. This black person might be talking about racism, and he (or she) is simply stating the obvious truth - that white people made slaves out of black people.

Carry on with your silliness.
 
GOD said:
Hi.
I would first like to preface by saying that I am not calling any of you who post or visit this forum racist. I am interested in the perception that a racist is more likely to be a Republican than a Democrat. Do you find this to be inaccurate?

There have been a lot of links, graphs and postings lately which I find inflammatory and only reflect the views of a subsection of people and they often get in the way of an honest discussion, so I am not posting those here.

Personally, I really don't ever hear any racist comments in real life, so I have almost no firsthand knowledge to go on. Would any of you care to share your views on racism in America? Is that where some of the hatred of Obama comes from? What are the political leanings of anyone you know who is racist?
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I'm coming into this way late and haven't bothered to read any of the other posts...

When I read quotes from Reid (D-Nevada), left wing groups ("war on women" crap...), Jessie Jackson...and see the hate and racism from the left, it is really no different from the racism from the right. The differnce is that the left gets a pass from the media and therefore it creates a perception that all racists are on the right. In fact, racism is very broad and is clearly entrenched from the far rigtht to the far left.

As far as hatred for Obama, I've heard him referred to to in very derogatory terms from both lefties and righties around here. I wonder though, just how many people mean it when they call him by the 'n' word. To be sure, some mean it in a purely racist way, but I think many mean it as a simple insult and use that word as they might any other.

Anyway, my short thoughts.
 
People need to get over the past. If Jews feel comfortable living in Germany, then I don't want to hear shit about blacks feeling discriminated against when most NEVER experienced Jim Crow. Use your race or religion as an excuse, and you'll always fall short.
 
maxiep said:
People need to get over the past. If Jews feel comfortable living in Germany, then I don't want to hear shit about blacks feeling discriminated against when most NEVER experienced Jim Crow. Use your race or religion as an excuse, and you'll always fall short.
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Just because someone didn't experience Jim Crow doesn't mean they haven't experienced racism.

I remember some incidents directed at my dad when I was a kid growing up in Portland. Weird, disturbing, and/or odd things that would be blatant enough for a kid to notice.
 
though, Maxiep, just as I would feel uncomfortable telling anyone of Jewish descent "get over the Holocaust, already" I think it's counterproductive to say "if you call yourself a *****, I can, too, homey" or "Yeah, so I said 'don't re-Nig Obama'--get over it" or some such. That's not to say you can't have a view that Israeli foreign policy is bad, or that you notice that many of the stakeholders in Hollywood are Jewish. In that same vein you should be allowed to disagree with the administration, or to observe that 92% of African-American voters vote (D). But American discourse (especially politically) has deteriorated to:
-if you dislike the President's policies, it's probably b/c you're a racist.
-if you vote (R), you most likely hate women and homosexuals and are a xenophobe

Is that racism? I don't know. Is it positive? Imho, no.
 
Being able to live somewhere doesn't mean we've gotten over it.

Like the black guys who fought during WWI and WWII, and were asked why they were fighting for a country that treated them like crap at home, and they said "it's my country too".
 
Racism is sometimes overt, but it is often subtle. For example, a white person dominating a conversation with a minority could be a result of feelings of entitlement, white privilege (or not). Or the minority involved in the conversation might perceive it as racism.

I think that you have to examine policies that are advocated for as opposed to membership in a particular party. Some policies or comments are overtly racist (or pretty close) (i.e. some immigration policies), and others which have a disparate impact on minorites. Conservatives, for example, may defend certain beliefs, such as cutting taxes for the rich. The defense may be that everyone has an opportunity to attain wealth and therefore the policy is not racist. It does not consider race in application. However, such a policy overlooks the history of slavery, reconstruction, Jim Crow laws, etc. The opportunitiy for attaining wealth is not equal and in times of recession, the wealth gap widens. http://money.cnn.com/2012/06/21/news/economy/wealth-gap-race/index.htm

Maxiep's comparison of Jim Crow to the Holocaust is not valid from an economic perspective. Comparing one regime's genocide of jewish people (from an economic perspective) is not comparable to over 200 years of economic suppression. In addition, those that survived the Holocaust were capable of escaping the regime and prospering. They had the economic abilities to persevere. And, this has not stopped Jewish people from seeking and recovering reparations for the holocaust. There have been no reparations for slavery. This is not to diminish the experience of those people, but just because you perceive some people of one ethnic background to have persevered over racism, does not mean that all people have the same ability. They are different experiences.

Just because you are a member of a party does not make you more racist than a member of another party. However, there are examples of policies or doctrines with racist origins. There are many religions which (in the past) have been overtly racist. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_..._the_status_of_black_Mormons_in_the_afterlife. Just because you are mormon, does not mean you are racist, but if you are unaware of the origins of your ethics you may be advancing language or doctrines with deep seated racist origins.
 
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We are a nation of immigrants. The only group of immigrants, for the most part, that did not come here willingly were the african slaves.

Something that is not often mentioned, FWIW.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Just because someone didn't experience Jim Crow doesn't mean they haven't experienced racism.

I remember some incidents directed at my dad when I was a kid growing up in Portland. Weird, disturbing, and/or odd things that would be blatant enough for a kid to notice.
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Then people need to toughen up. You don't think discrimination exists in every walk of life? People discriminate against fat people, short people, ugly people, poor people, religious people, gay people, etc. Life isn't fair. We should stop trying to make it so. The cream will rise to the top, no matter the color, religion, appearance or sexual orientation.
 
BrianFromWA said:
though, Maxiep, just as I would feel uncomfortable telling anyone of Jewish descent "get over the Holocaust, already" I think it's counterproductive to say "if you call yourself a *****, I can, too, homey" or "Yeah, so I said 'don't re-Nig Obama'--get over it" or some such. That's not to say you can't have a view that Israeli foreign policy is bad, or that you notice that many of the stakeholders in Hollywood are Jewish. In that same vein you should be allowed to disagree with the administration, or to observe that 92% of African-American voters vote (D). But American discourse (especially politically) has deteriorated to:
-if you dislike the President's policies, it's probably b/c you're a racist.
-if you vote (R), you most likely hate women and homosexuals and are a xenophobe

Is that racism? I don't know. Is it positive? Imho, no.
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My point is the Holocaust was arguably the greatest atrocity put on one race in recent memory, yet the Jews don't say, "I can't make it because my family was killed and our wealth stolen". They remember what they lost, say it will never happen again and soldier on.

Slavery was awful. But at some point, you need to stop making excuses for your lack of achievement. Interestingly, however, I wonder how many people who decry their slave rsoot and the racism they feel they experience would trade their ancestors being brought here so they could instead live in West Africa? My guess is there aren't many. And if there are, then enjoy Liberia I say.
 
Boy, there sure is a lot of victimization in this thread. It makes me wonder how in such a terrible and racist country we could have seen a Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice or Barack Obama. America is terrible, cruel and unfair. You have your station in life and that's where you stay, I guess.
 
maxiep said:
Then people need to toughen up. You don't think discrimination exists in every walk of life? People discriminate against fat people, short people, ugly people, poor people, religious people, gay people, etc. Life isn't fair. We should stop trying to make it so. The cream will rise to the top, no matter the color, religion, appearance or sexual orientation.
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WTF?!? My father is one of the toughest people I know. The racism he experienced didn't hold him back. Some of it was so stupid that there was no way that it could hold anyone back. And yes, racism exists everywhere. I never said life wasn't fair or my father felt that life wasn't fair. What a completely asshole post to make Maxie.
 
maxiep said:
My point is the Holocaust was arguably the greatest atrocity put on one race in recent memory, yet the Jews don't say, "I can't make it because my family was killed and our wealth stolen". They remember what they lost, say it will never happen again and soldier on.

Slavery was awful. But at some point, you need to stop making excuses for your lack of achievement. Interestingly, however, I wonder how many people who decry their slave roots and the racism they feel they experience would trade their ancestors being brought here so they could instead live in West Africa? My guess is there aren't many. And if there are, then enjoy Liberia I say.
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the holocaust was not over 200-300+ years of continual LEGAL abuse of, the murder OF and domination of one group over another. And even though their #'s were decimated, there wasn't a continual, LEGAL avenue for Germans to discriminate against Jews after the war ended.

The people who were in charge of the holocaust did not remain in power, or control their government. They did not change the rules to favor "real" Germans. Yes, there were issues and discrimination.

Just because Slavery ended in 1865, did not mean that black people went "oh, I remember what we lost, and it'll never happen again".

They still had to deal with being considered non human and non "American" for many decades later.

It's easy as a non minority to say people need to stop making excuses for their lack of achievement, when systematically, minorities have been held down by our culture. Yes, there are many who have found levels of achievement, but you cannot deny that our society has held down different groups of our society.

As for the "would they enjoy living back in Africa" comment....I'm not even sure how to address that. There's only so much condescending, and dismissive attitudes one can read before you want to stop listening to people. It's really easy for someone who (I assume) come from a background that did not experience prejudice and racism to tell others they need to get over it.

It's like telling someone who got molested to "get over it", when it's really easy for someone who was never molested to get over something they never experienced.
 
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blazerboy30 said:
Wow. Just wow.

The lack of reading and statistical comprehension you're displaying in this thread is absolutely atrocious.
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So why does it matter what they voted in the primaries then?

And again, voting for someone who looks like you DOES NOT EQUAL RACISM.

jesus fucking cheese sticks.
 
maxiep said:
Boy, there sure is a lot of victimization in this thread. It makes me wonder how in such a terrible and racist country we could have seen a Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice or Barack Obama. America is terrible, cruel and unfair. You have your station in life and that's where you stay, I guess.
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Yep, racism is over with because we have 3 black people who are prominent.

And yep, we're saying America is cruel and unfair. You pegged us.
 
julius said:
So why does it matter what they voted in the primaries then?
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I seriously thought you were smarter than this. Clearly you can't analyze the data in front of you and make logical inferences from the statistics. Go study up some more.

julius said:
And again, voting for someone who looks like you DOES NOT EQUAL RACISM.
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Voting for somebody based on skin color is racial prejudice. racism = racial prejudice.

It isn't complicated. I don't know why you're fighting this so hard, like you're trying to deny that racism exists in voting. Are you feeling guilty because you voted for Obama based on skin color?
 
Take it to another level...I won't, under any circumstance, vote for Patty Murray in large part b/c she's one of the least intellectually capable people in politics, and I include all of the R's who think rape is ok to opine about. I may very well vote for the next female (D) that comes onto the ballot.

If you were to ask me why, I could cite multiple examples...however, that would take a lot more intellectual capability and effort than to say "he doesn't want to vote for a woman".
 
blazerboy30 said:
I seriously thought you were smarter than this. Clearly you can't analyze the data in front of you and make logical inferences from the statistics. Go study up some more.
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your stats don't make the argument you think it does. It's not like blacks went from voting all for every democrat to all the sudden "what? a black person? Ooh...Me vote for him!"

You're also projecting a lot there, by assuming that is why. Because it's not like blacks (as a collective voting block) haven't voted for Democrats in big numbers.

Voting for somebody based on skin color is racial prejudice. racism = racial prejudice.
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So....black people vote based on skin color, but white people vote based on politics?
It isn't complicated. I don't know why you're fighting this so hard, like you're trying to deny that racism exists in voting. Are you feeling guilty because you voted for Obama based on skin color?
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Fallacies are a neat thing.

I've never denied it (in fact, I addressed it a few times in this thread...one time in which you called a strawman response..which made no sense).

I'm not sure how you equate feeling guilty with pointing out that voting based on skin color is racism, because then it implies a lot about the rest of the country that I'm not willing to admit is true.
I'm not sure why you keep bringing up the primary vote, and act like I can't figure out what you're saying.

Maybe you should re-address it so your point is clearer. Because it sure isn't.
 
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BrianFromWA said:
Take it to another level...I won't, under any circumstance, vote for Patty Murray in large part b/c she's one of the least intellectually capable people in politics, and I include all of the R's who think rape is ok to opine about. I may very well vote for the next female (D) that comes onto the ballot.

If you were to ask me why, I could cite multiple examples...however, that would take a lot more intellectual capability and effort than to say "he doesn't want to vote for a woman".
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to which side are you addressing that too?
 
Fez Hammersticks said:
I've seen many, and I mean many, on Twitter drop the n-bomb but later claim they aren't racist.

I challenge you to find any KKK member in the history of that group who wasn't a Republican.

Go ahead, I'll wait.
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Nathaniel Bedford Forrest. Robert Byrd. Strom Thurmond.
 
those trying to tie voting results to racism. A lot can go into how someone votes. Me looking at stats to say "they wanted someone who looked like them/had sex like them/goes to the same church as them" is easy and intellectually dishonest, imho. But it happens all the time.

I don't think that SF is full of raging feminist, isolationist tax-dodgers just b/c 20% of them voted for Patty Sheehan to oust Nancy Pelosi.
 
julius said:
your stats don't make the argument you think it does. It's not like blacks went from voting all for every democrat to all the sudden "what? a black person? Ooh...Me vote for him!"
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Actually, that is exactly what happened. They didn't randomly or coincidentally go from voting split relatively even in democratic primaries to split 97-3 in the 2008 primaries.

julius said:
You're also projecting a lot there, by assuming that is why. Because it's not like blacks (as a collective voting block) haven't voted for Democrats in big numbers.
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WTF man? You still can't read and understand the word "PRIMARIES". Obviously blacks are more likely to vote for Democrats. Usually around 75-80%. That isn't the question.

WITHIN THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARIES, the black vote was split 97-3, which has NEVER been the case before.

You do realize that both candidates in the DEMOCRATIC PRIMARIES are democrats, right?

Wow, this is getting ridiculous with you.


julius said:
So....black people vote based on skin color, but white people vote based on politics?
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I never said that. When did I claim white people aren't racist as well?

Having said that, please find me another demographic that was split 97-3 for their demographic any time in recent history.


julius said:
I'm not sure how you equate feeling guilty with pointing out that voting based on skin color is racism, because then it implies a lot about the rest of the country that I'm not willing to admit is true.
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I'm sorry if you're not willing to admit it's true, but it is a fact that voting based on skin color is racist. BY DEFINITION.

julius said:
I'm not sure why you keep bringing up the primary vote, and act like I can't figure out what you're saying.
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I keep bringing it up because you can't figure it our or comprehend what the stats suggest.

And then you say "yeah, but blacks always vote for democrats". Yes, and you're proving you don't understand the part about the split in the primaries.

julius said:
Maybe you should re-address it so your point is clearer. Because it sure isn't.
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Like I said above, the black vote is always overwhelmingly for the democrats. Yes, I agree.

BETWEEN THE DEMOCRATS, there has never been a 97-3 split of the black vote until the 2004 democratic primaries when there just happens to be a black candidate.

You're trying to convince me that the only 97-3 split in black vote was not based on skin color.

That is a ridiculous and naive stance.
 
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