Resignation over flawed paper "debunking" man-made global warming

[bluefrog]

I'm not sure what you mean by "pro-AGW" ...

Thoughtful response. Repped

 

[Nikolokolus]

You're talking about the temperature graph (I called it sinusoidal)?

I posted it in response to Julius saying this was a particularly hot summer/year. It was meant to show 2009 was a very cold year.

My comment about it looking like a sine wave was coincidental. Obviously, the time frame of the chart is tiny, and I would not extrapolate that it's similar over geologic time frames.

BTW, we didn't have a summer in San Diego last year. We have what we call May Gray and June Gloom, typically. The normal pattern is the marine layer is gone for the 4th of July through about October. Last year, we had grey skies and chilly weather from mid-January on, and I don't recall any 80 degree days at all.

No not the temperature graph, the sea-level rise/fall graph that shows a two year sample size

 

[Denny Crane]

No not the temperature graph, the sea-level rise/fall graph that shows a two year sample size

I went D'oh a few minutes after I made my post. I figured out you were talking about the sea level graph.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I went D'oh a few minutes after I made my post. I figured out you were talking about the sea level graph.

No worries.

 

[Denny Crane]

More on resignations from scientific organizations.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/en...ing-as-Nobel-laureate-resigns-in-protest.html

Prof Giaever is one of the most prominent scientific dissenters challenging the controversial man-made global warming claims of the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and former US vice-president Al Gore.

He has testified to the US Senate about his doubts, calling himself a "sceptic" on global warming and citing both his birthplace and other scientific scares he has seen come and go during his career.

"I am Norwegian, should I really worry about a little bit of warming?" he said. "I am unfortunately becoming an old man. We have heard many similar warnings about the acid rain 30 years ago and the ozone hole 10 years ago or deforestation but the humanity is still around.

"Global warming has become a new religion. We frequently hear about the number of scientists who support it. But the number is not important: only whether they are correct is important. We don't really know what the actual effect on the global temperature is. There are better ways to spend the money."

Prof Giaever, 82, is not alone in rejecting the APS's insistence that there is consensus on the existence and severity of man-made global warming.

Several prominent members have expressed frustration that it has refused to reconsider its position – drawn up in 2007 – in the light of the "Climategate" controversy about the findings of the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia.

"Measured or reconstructed temperature records indicate that 20th - 21st century changes are neither exceptional nor persistent, and the historical and geological records show many periods warmer than today," dissenters wrote in an open letter to it its governing board.

...

 

[barfo]

"I am Norwegian, should I really worry about a little bit of warming?" he said. "I am unfortunately becoming an old man. We have heard many similar warnings about the acid rain 30 years ago and the ozone hole 10 years ago or deforestation but the humanity is still around.

So lets see. He doesn't care because he's old and is from a cold place, and other environmental problems didn't kill the human race. Of course, that's partly because we took action to fix those problems.

This guy is somewhat less than a star witness for your side, Denny.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

So lets see. He doesn't care because he's old and is from a cold place, and other environmental problems didn't kill the human race. Of course, that's partly because we took action to fix those problems.

This guy is somewhat less than a star witness for your side, Denny.

barfo

Yeah, but he's right.

 

[bluefrog]

He seems like an old cranky coot

Tawanda Johnson, an APS spokeswoman, told The Sunday Telegraph that the society was "disappointed" by Prof Giaever's decision. It believed the criticisms were based on "misunderstandings" but would not "engage in a back-and-forth on Ivar's observations".
The APS says it that its climate change statement does not assert that "anthropogenic" (man-made) climate change is incontrovertible – but that the evidence of global warming is.

 

[Denny Crane]

He seems like an old cranky coot

He seems like an old school scientist who wasn't brainwashed by a generation of guys doing bad science.

In a fresh challenge to claims that there is scientific "consensus" on climate change, Prof Ivar Giaever has resigned from the American Physical Society, where his peers had elected him a fellow to honour his work.

The society, which has 48,000 members, has adopted a policy statement which states: "The evidence is incontrovertible: global warming is occurring."


But Prof Giaever, who shared the 1973 Nobel award for physics, told The Sunday Telegraph. "Incontrovertible is not a scientific word. Nothing is incontrovertible in science."

The US-based Norwegian physicist, who is the chief technology officer at Applied Biophysics Inc and a retired academic at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, the oldest technological university in the English-speaking world, added: "Global warming has become the new religion."
Prof Giaever was one of Barack Obama's leading scientific supporters during the 2008 president election campaign, joining 70 Nobel science laureates endorsing his candidacy.

But he has since criticised Mr Obama over his stance on global warming and was one of more 100 scientists who wrote an open letter to him, declaring: "We maintain that the case for alarm regarding climate change is grossly overstated."

He has now parted company with the APS after what he called lengthy consideration. In an email to its executive office Kate Kirby, he said he "cannot live" with its official statement on global warming.

He questioned whether the average temperature of "the whole earth for a whole year" can be accurately measured, but contended that even if the results are accurate, they indicate the climate has actually been "amazingly stable" for 150 years.

And he concluded that in any case, both "human health and happiness have definitely improved" over the so-called "warming period" of the last century and a half.

In its policy statement, the APS declares: "Emissions of greenhouse gases from human activities are changing the atmosphere in ways that affect the Earth's climate. They are emitted from fossil fuel combustion and a range of industrial and agricultural processes. The evidence is incontrovertible: global warming is occurring. If no mitigating actions are taken, significant disruptions in the Earth's physical and ecological systems, social systems, security and human health are likely to occur. We must reduce emissions of greenhouse gases beginning now."

 

[bluefrog]

I'm sure you know the difference between "Global Warming" and "Anthropogenic Global Warming".

"Incontrovertible" was not a good word choice but I hardly think it's worth resigning over.

 

[Denny Crane]

I'm sure you know the difference between "Global Warming" and "Anthropogenic Global Warming".

"Incontrovertible" was not a good word choice but I hardly think it's worth resigning over.

I'm sure the bit about emissions by human activity in the statement and the word choice was deliberate and enough to get this guy to resign.

 

[bluefrog]

I'm sure the bit about emissions by human activity in the statement and the word choice was deliberate and enough to get this guy to resign.

So the APS is secretly for AGW? Maybe it's a ploy to cash in on the big climate hoax dollars.

 

[huevonkiller]

I read the last CERN article Denny posted, sounds like they proved exactly what all long-term climate models show. CERN is not anti-AGW, and you need to stop the appeals to authority. The whole point of this discussion is you lose either on: (1) whether AGW exists, (2) the solution to AGW, or (3) whether warmer temperatures kill a higher amount of people anyway. And there are some other questions always left unanswered.

 

[Denny Crane]

So the APS is secretly for AGW? Maybe it's a ploy to cash in on the big climate hoax dollars.

It's publicly not for sound science, hence the resignation.

 

[bluefrog]

I read the last CERN article Denny posted, sounds like they proved exactly what all long-term climate models show.

Good on you HK! Why don't you elaborate on how Dr. Kirby's research proves "exactly what all long-term climate models show". I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on this.

 

[huevonkiller]

Looks like you're blowing it again in other words.

Good on you HK! Why don't you elaborate on how Dr. Kirby's research proves "exactly what all long-term climate models show". I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on this.

Yeah use the search function buddy, it is located in the top right. Once again you just ignored what I said. Lol.

1. AGW has to be proven.
2. Your "solutions" for AGW are nonsensical, and I have superior ones that are not as ignorant.
3. Can you even prove AGW is bad?
4. Is 400 PPM of CO2 abnormal for the earth?

Etc.

You tried to shrug off the CERN findings before, but Denny pointed out your weird analysis.

 

[bluefrog]

Looks like you're blowing it again in other words. I've already posted CO2 ppm analysis over the Earth's entire history.. You have never addressed this.



Yeah use the search function buddy, it is located in the top right. Once again you just ignored what I said. Lol.

1. AGW has to be proven. 2. Then you need to realize your "solutions" are nonsensical, and I have superior ones that are not as ignorant. 3. Is warming bad? 4. is this abnormal for the Earth? 5, 6, 7, 8, 9...... Etc. You have a lot of work to do.

You tried to shrug off the CERN findings before, but Denny pointed out your weird analysis. The facts are I have laid out several dimensions in which your argument fails, even if AGW exists.

Is English your first language?

I'm asking a serious question. I posts in Japanese forums from time to time and I sometimes mistake what people are trying to say.

 

[huevonkiller]

No I was just posting informally. I'm a bit tired. ;]

Is English your first language?

I'm asking a serious question. I posts in Japanese forums from time to time and I sometimes mistake what people are trying to say.

First you bitch like a whiny little guy about my fun jab, then you bitch about making fun of Jon Stewart. What a fucking hypocrite. Just answer my previous post and move along.

If Agw is real, then your solutions for it are nonsensical. Your argument failed on various levels even if you can prove that AGW is occurring. Cap and trade doesn't address the problem and you're annoying me.

 

[bluefrog]

You are truly pathetic.

First you bitch like a whiny little guy about my fun jab, then you bitch about me making fun of a comedian. You're truly one of the weakest and people around here. Just answer my post and move along.

Geez, you sound like a sensitive guy.

I admitted to the jab. When did I bitch at you about making fun of a comedian? Link?

It's hard debating with you because most of the time I don't know what you're talking about.

You said "you need to stop the appeals to authority". What authority have I appealed to? Link?

You say my '"solutions' are nonsensical". What solutions have I proposed? Link?

You said "You tried to shrug off the CERN findings" when I said it was an excellent study. LINK

You said "The facts are I have laid out several dimensions in which your argument fails" when you're arguing AGW existence and I'm arguing the politics of science. We're not even on the same page.

 

[huevonkiller]

I believe in constructive criticism bluefrog, but you kind of took a cheap shot I thought. So now I am going to have fun with this.

Geez, you sound like a sensitive guy.

I admitted to the jab. When did I bitch at you about making fun of a comedian? Link?

No problem.

http://sportstwo.com/threads/193299-Once-a-fringe-candidate-Paul-shaping-2012-race?highlight=sodium

So what is the solution to AGW? I'm assuming you believe in cap and trade.... If that is the case, then you have a fucking stupid solution.

It's hard debating with you because most of the time I don't know what you're talking about.

Well I post informally at this board and I'm a little lazy. You tried to get cute with me though, so lets act cute. This is a fun argument now, it was boring before.

You said "you need to stop the appeals to authority". What authority have I appealed to? Link?

The last post you made to Denny was an appeal to authority.......

 

[jlprk]

I was falsely swayed by the 99% of climatologists who say there's a manmade problem. Now that one loudmouth conservative quit, I see I better change sides.

Oops. Did I just appeal to authority? Claiming to be in the majority is the conservative's most-used technique of argument.

Speaking of appealing to authority, it seems that in every other post, Huevon says, "See Denny's post" or "As Denny said,..."

 

[huevonkiller]

Bullshit, I just asked this guy straight up what his solutions are.

I was falsely swayed by the 99% of climatologists who say there's a manmade problem. Now that one loudmouth conservative quit, I see I better change sides.

Oops. Did I just appeal to authority? Claiming to be in the majority is the conservative's most-used technique of argument.

Speaking of appealing to authority, it seems that in every other post, Huevon says, "See Denny's post" or
"As Denny said,..."

Whatever dude, you assume everyone that disagrees with you is neoconservative. That's simply not the case.

Why was I defending immigrants in that other thread? And I'm pro drugs.

 

[jlprk]

Why was I defending immigrants in that other thread?

Because you're a right-wing Mexican who wants to suck Bluefrog off. This is obvious.

 

[huevonkiller]

Because you're a right-wing Mexican who wants to suck Bluefrog off. This is obvious.

Slanderish, I said I want him to deepthroat me. Get it right please.

Right wingers are obsessed with fences and militarism. That's very different from what I believe in.

 

[bluefrog]

http://sportstwo.com/threads/193299-Once-a-fringe-candidate-Paul-shaping-2012-race?highlight=sodium

You have an amazing memory, that was 7 weeks ago! Although you ended up agreeing with me in that thread. (boner time!)

So what is the solution to AGW? I'm assuming you believe in cap and trade.... If that is the case, then you have a fucking stupid solution.

Well I post informally at this board and I'm a little lazy. You tried to get cute with me though, so lets act cute. This is a fun argument now, it was boring before.

I don't appreciate being called "weak", "annoying ", "whiny little guy", "failure", "hypocrite", or "one of the weakest and people around here". If you want to debate the issues, I'm game. I'm not interested in trashing talking, name calling or debating with someone that goes back and changes his posts to support his position.

I'll get back to your other points later. I'm busy

 

[huevonkiller]

You have an amazing memory, that was 7 weeks ago! Although you ended up agreeing with me in that thread. (boner time!)

I do have an amazing memory, thanks.

I don't appreciate being called "weak", "annoying ", "whiny little guy", "failure", "hypocrite", or "one of the weakest and people around here". If you want to debate the issues, I'm game. I'm not interested in trashing talking, name calling or debating with someone that goes back and changes his posts to support his position.

I'll get back to your other points later. I'm busy

Nope, I treat people the way they treat me.

if you want to drop this discussion, that's fine with me.

 

[jlprk]

if you want to drop this discussion, that's fine with me.

Huevon's leaving because I'm here!

It's okay, I understand.

 

[huevonkiller]

Huevon's leaving because I'm here!

It's okay, I understand.

You're not upsetting me jlprk. :/

I'm not hear just to trash talk, if bluefrog wants to discuss this topic seriously, I'm cool with that. ;] I do not mind.

 

[Denny Crane]

You'd think one of those half-Spanish schools would be perfect for HCP.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Does anybody want to actually talk science?

*crickets* ... *crickets* ... *crickets* ... *crickets* ... *crickets* ... *crickets* ...