Ride the tank

[BlazerWookee]

I don't think having a "Well damn, we lost. It's a rebuild year anyway, it doesn't hurt." along with a "Yay! We won! At least we get to enjoy it." is all that unhealthy... and I'd venture to say deep down that's how most people feel.

But a loss does hurt. And a chance at a couple extra ping pong balls should be VERY small consolation.

 

[Orion Bailey]

This season is win-win either way but I think we are translating the term tank a bit differently...to play inexperienced players and develop them while knowing you are not going to contend for a championship and may miss out on the playoffs is to plant the seeds of growth for the future...to tank is to take a dive....as in boxing...a thread that encourages riding the tank is in my view saying...take a dive.

This right here!!!!

 

[Strenuus]

So where is this open mind when others are talking about the upside of these guys if they show signs of continual improvement and win 40 games? How come no one is saying, well that wouldn't be so bad either? I don't think the mind is as open as many who want to tank think it is.

Good question. I can really only speak for myself, but I believe in the upside of Vonleh, since he is so raw.

With CJ, with higher expectations and a shorter window, I can understand the urgency to place him into a higher order than maybe he's at at the moment.

I don't know. Good question, Bailey. Making me think about it.

 

[Strenuus]

This season is win-win either way but I think we are translating the term tank a bit differently...to play inexperienced players and develop them while knowing you are not going to contend for a championship and may miss out on the playoffs is to plant the seeds of growth for the future...to tank is to take a dive....as in boxing...a thread that encourages riding the tank is in my view saying...take a dive.

This is a really good way of talking about it.

I am not firmly entrenched in team tank or team playoff push... I'm just taking every game as a win-win.

*hugs riverman*

 

[Natebishop3]

But a loss does hurt. And a chance at a couple extra ping pong balls should be VERY small consolation.

The Spurs drafted Duncan.

The Cavs (originally) drafted LeBron.

The Sonics drafted Durant and Westbrook.

The Heat drafted Wade.

It goes on and on. How else do you see us getting another star to go with Dame?

 

[Strenuus]

But a loss does hurt. And a chance at a couple extra ping pong balls should be VERY small consolation.

It hurts less this year than in years past, if we're being honest.

 

[Orion Bailey]

The Spurs drafted Duncan.

The Cavs (originally) drafted LeBron.

The Sonics drafted Durant and Westbrook.

The Heat drafted Wade.

It goes on and on. How else do you see us getting another star to go with Dame?

Every name you just dropped was a decade old. The game and our city has change some, if not, alot. Free agency then is not the same as it is now I think for one. Second, maybe Vonleh is already one? Maybe we traqde for one with all of our cap space and overlapping of a couple positions? Maybe a smart star in the making says... you know. Ill be much better playing with Dame than who I am playing with now. Look at their potential? 17 mil under the cap and winning 40 games? This is a team I can join and we can compete for the next decade.

I dont see this scenario as that unreasonable.

 

[Strenuus]

Every name you just dropped was a decade old. The game and our city has change some, if not, alot. Free agency then is not the same as it is now I think for one. Second, maybe Vonleh is already one? Maybe we traqde for one with all of our cap space and overlapping of a couple positions? Maybe a smart star in the making says... you know. Ill be much better playing with Dame than who I am playing with now. Look at their potential? 17 mil under the cap and winning 40 games? This is a team I can join and we can compete for the next decade.

I dont see this scenario as that unreasonable.

Except for Aminu. I like him defensively, but offensively I'm already cringing... he could be a black hole on offense, especially if one of dame or CJ are sitting out.

If Dame and CJ are on the court together, no one should be taking shots but them, unless it's a broken play. I just don't trust anyone else. lol.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Except for Aminu. I like him defensively, but offensively I'm already cringing... he could be a black hole on offense, especially if one of dame or CJ are sitting out.

If Dame and CJ are on the court together, no one should be taking shots but them, unless it's a broken play. I just don't trust anyone else. lol.

I agree with this. I think Aminu might end up being a crutch on offense. He doesn't seem like a team player, looking to pass. When he gets the ball he seems to zone out and forget he has 4 teammates on the floor.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Except for Aminu. I like him defensively, but offensively I'm already cringing... he could be a black hole on offense, especially if one of dame or CJ are sitting out.

If Dame and CJ are on the court together, no one should be taking shots but them, unless it's a broken play. I just don't trust anyone else. lol.

Let me add , I hear your feelings, but dont agree on the shots though. Vonleh, Harkless, Plumlee, Meyers, ETC. They will not get better if they dont shoot and learn lessons.

 

[Natebishop3]

Every name you just dropped was a decade old. The game and our city has change some, if not, alot. Free agency then is not the same as it is now I think for one. Second, maybe Vonleh is already one? Maybe we traqde for one with all of our cap space and overlapping of a couple positions? Maybe a smart star in the making says... you know. Ill be much better playing with Dame than who I am playing with now. Look at their potential? 17 mil under the cap and winning 40 games? This is a team I can join and we can compete for the next decade.

I dont see this scenario as that unreasonable.

Well that's who is winning championships right now.

The Wizards drafted Wall.

The Clips drafted Griffin.

The Pels drafted Davis.

The Pistons drafted Drummond.

The Warriors drafted Curry, Klay, and Green.

 

[Strenuus]

Let me add , I hear your feelings, but dont agree on the shots though. Vonleh, Harkless, Plumlee, Meyers, ETC. They will not get better if they dont shoot and learn lessons.

I was kinda saying it tounge-in-cheek.. I forget about Harkless sometimes, but he's solid.

If Plumlee is within a certain context or frame for his shot, then okay.

Vonleh needs to focus more on his defense and post up game at this point... I could see us giving him more opportunity to post up later in the year. At least, I hope.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Well that's who is winning championships right now.

The Wizards drafted Wall.

The Clips drafted Griffin.

The Pels drafted Davis.

The Pistons drafted Drummond.

The Warriors drafted Curry, Klay, and Green.

Washington is winning a championship?
The Clips are winning a championship?
The Pels are winning a championship?
The Pistons are winning a championship?

When? I just checked and none of these teams have won in a decade. Aren't the Pels in the running for the lotto?

Playing antagonist here because I get what your saying. I get it. I just don't agree or think your that on the mark with it.

Now lets look at teams who had a lotto, garnered a superstar that player never won, but moved on to win elsewhere.

MINNI: Kevin Garnett
Orlando: Shaq
Cleveland: LBJ(* because he may win yet)

These are just a few of the many. There are arguements for both sides I think. Both valid.

 

[Natebishop3]

Washington is winning a championship?
The Clips are winning a championship?
The Pels are winning a championship?
The Pistons are winning a championship?

When? I just checked and none of these teams have won in a decade. Aren't the Pels in the running for the lotto?

Playing antagonist here because I get what your saying. I get it. I just don't agree or think your that on the mark with it.

Now lets look at teams who had a lotto, garnered a superstar that player never won, but moved on to win elsewhere.

MINNI: Kevin Garnett
Orlando: Shaq
Cleveland: LBJ(* because he may win yet)

These are just a few of the many. There are arguements for both sides I think. Both valid.

You said the other guys were from a long time ago. I'm listing some of the best young players in the league.

And the Magic had a legit shot at winning a championship. That team was amazing with Penny and Shaq.

 

[Orion Bailey]

You said the other guys were from a long time ago. I'm listing some of the best young players in the league.

And the Magic had a legit shot at winning a championship. That team was amazing with Penny and Shaq.

Understood, but doesn't that remain to be seen? These new guys can very well be traded or sign to another team before winning. Quite a stretch to say they are winning a championship in my opinion.

 

[Natebishop3]

Understood, but doesn't that remain to be seen? These new guys can very well be traded or sign to another team before winning. Quite a stretch to say they are winning a championship in my opinion.

My point is, someone has to draft these guys, and we are not known to be a free agent destination. So we either draft them or trade for them.

 

[Orion Bailey]

My point is, someone has to draft these guys, and we are not known to be a free agent destination. So we either draft them or trade for them.

And I guess my point is, Id much rather win 40 games and make a trade for said player over wining 10 games and drafting a possibility. Doesnt mean I need to wake up.

 

[Natebishop3]

And I guess my point is, Id much rather win 40 games and make a trade for said player over wining 10 games and drafting a possibility. Doesnt mean I need to wake up.

I didn't say you need to wake up, but how many top 20 guys are available for trades?

 

[oldmangrouch]

My point is, someone has to draft these guys, and we are not known to be a free agent destination. So we either draft them or trade for them.

This is such an obvious point, it just amazes me no one gets it.

You can't sign a FA unless they are willing. You can't make a good trade unless another team screws up. Draft day is the only time a GM actually has complete control over his own fate. If you don't trust your GM on draft day - you shouldn't trust them at all.

 

[illmatic99]

This is such an obvious point, it just amazes me no one gets it.

The most relieving thing is that Neil gets it, and that's all that matters.

 

[illmatic99]

Let me add , I hear your feelings, but dont agree on the shots though. Vonleh, Harkless, Plumlee, Meyers, ETC. They will not get better if they dont shoot and learn lessons.

Nearly, 20 games in.

The only guys here I see as potential starters are Plums and maybe Meyers. You think any of these guys will turn into stars? Or build up enough value to draw a star in trade?

 

[Natebishop3]

This is such an obvious point, it just amazes me no one gets it.

You can't sign a FA unless they are willing. You can't make a good trade unless another team screws up. Draft day is the only time a GM actually has complete control over his own fate. If you don't trust your GM on draft day - you shouldn't trust them at all.

And they conveniently forget that our recent resurgence (both times) were on the backs of Roy/Aldridge and Dame/Aldridge. Where did those players come from?

Aldridge #2 overall draft pick.
Roy #6 overall draft pick.
Dame #6 overall draft pick.

While we traded for all three picks, they were still Blazer rookies. We didn't sign them as free agents, and in the case of Roy and Aldridge, we only traded up a couple spots to get them.

 

[Strenuus]

And they conveniently forget that our recent resurgence (both times) were on the backs of Roy/Aldridge and Dame/Aldridge. Where did those players come from?

Aldridge #2 overall draft pick.
Roy #6 overall draft pick.
Dame #6 overall draft pick.

While we traded for all three picks, they were still Blazer rookies. We didn't sign them as free agents, and in the case of Roy and Aldridge, we only traded up a couple spots to get them.

Yeah... and we could have been stuck with Tyrus Thomas. :MARIS61:

 

[blue9]

Any plan that relies on Vonleh being our 2nd star is a bad plan. That's not to say he can't become that player, but it absolutely should NOT be part of the plan. He looks AWFUL right now. Like Ha Seung-jin awful.

We need a big SG or SF to be our "2nd" (or 1st) star. Until we get that player we won't be going anywhere. Otherwise I think we're set up fairly well:

PG - Duh

PF - Don't need anything flashy here. With the right roster Ed Davis could be fine, though it'd be nice if he could extend his range to 15' and put on some muscle. When we first got him I thought he was bigger than he actually is, so his size is a little disappointing. If he can become Udonis Haslem he could be a fine starter.

C - We'll see how the rest of the season goes, but I still think both Plumlee and Meyers are capable of being starting Cs. Obviously if Davis is our PF then Plumlee doesn't work quite as well.

Back-up SG - Still think CJ is best suited to this role. And he'd be a damn good 6th man!

Back-up SF - Either Harkless or Aminu would be good back-up SFs, with Harkless as a dark horse starting SF (but I wouldn't plan on it).

Back-up PF - Aminu could also be a back-up PF, but this should be an easy position to fill regardless.

Back-up C - Either Plumlee or Meyers.

The obvious gaping holes in our roster are back-up PG, and starting wings. With how many great PGs there are I'm not worried about back-up PG - that'll get addressed. That just leaves starting wings as the key pieces that we're missing. Given that there's very little wing talent in the league the best place to find those missing pieces is in the draft.

 

[Strenuus]

Any plan that relies on Vonleh being our 2nd star is a bad plan. That's not to say he can't become that player, but it absolutely should NOT be part of the plan. He looks AWFUL right now. Like Ha Seung-jin awful.

We need a big SG or SF to be our "2nd" (or 1st) star. Until we get that player we won't be going anywhere. Otherwise I think we're set up fairly well:

PG - Duh

PF - Don't need anything flashy here. With the right roster Ed Davis could be fine, though it'd be nice if he could extend his range to 15' and put on some muscle. When we first got him I thought he was bigger than he actually is, so his size is a little disappointing. If he can become Udonis Haslem he could be a fine starter.

C - We'll see how the rest of the season goes, but I still think both Plumlee and Meyers are capable of being starting Cs. Obviously if Davis is our PF then Plumlee doesn't work quite as well.

Back-up SG - Still think CJ is best suited to this role. And he'd be a damn good 6th man!

Back-up SF - Either Harkless or Aminu would be good back-up SFs, with Harkless as a dark horse starting SF (but I wouldn't plan on it).

Back-up PF - Aminu could also be a back-up PF, but this should be an easy position to fill regardless.

Back-up C - Either Plumlee or Meyers.

The obvious gaping holes in our roster are back-up PG, and starting wings. With how many great PGs there are I'm not worried about back-up PG - that'll get addressed. That just leaves starting wings as the key pieces that we're missing. Given that there's very little wing talent in the league the best place to find those missing pieces is in the draft.

I enjoy your takes. I agree that CJ should come off the bench. Much more tailored for that role.

Who would be a good starting SG that's reasonable, though? That's the issue. We just don't have one. (CJ is doable, thankfully.)

 

[HailBlazers]

Any plan that relies on Vonleh being our 2nd star is a bad plan. That's not to say he can't become that player, but it absolutely should NOT be part of the plan. He looks AWFUL right now. Like Ha Seung-jin awful.

Um No.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

I understand people like to make their point but over-exaggerating it just back fires.

 

[blue9]

I enjoy your takes. I agree that CJ should come off the bench. Much more tailored for that role.

Who would be a good starting SG that's reasonable, though? That's the issue. We just don't have one. (CJ is doable, thankfully.)

That's the problem - there aren't any reasonable scenarios for a good starting SG. And that's why, for the moment, CJ is a fine starter. But once the team starts coming together CJ will either have to be shifted to the bench or used in a trade. Until that happens I'm happy with him starting.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Because maybe you don't get swept in four?

This fucking team?! Vs. the Warriors, vs. the Spurs!?!?!?




















AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

 

[blue9]

I understand people like to make their point but over-exaggerating it just back fires.

How's this for a realistic comparison:

Vonleh reminds me of Oden, but without being able to physically dominate anyone.
The other one is: he reminds me of a Jerm as a Blazer, but not as good...and Jerm was BAD as a Blazer.

Sure, Oden would have been great if he could have stayed healthy, but aside from dominating guys due to his size Oden was painful to watch. And sure, eventually Jerm became very good. But Noah doesn't look like successful Jerm, or hypothetical Oden - he looks like clueless Jerm and awkward Oden.

Basically, Vonleh is awful right now. And just for shits'n'giggles I ran a comparison against Ha: