Rockets Frustrated With Officiating

[BengalDuck]

...still waiting for the Rockets' fan who was going to post the Oden video with his "fouls."

Rockets' are bitches, period. No one bitches about the refs more than them. Maybe that's why they haven't got out of the first round in forever... mentally, they're soft. Roy and Co. get hammered in game one, even when they were the more aggressive team, and instead of saying the refs need to call more fouls, he says, verbatim, that the Blazers need to be even more aggressive. Houston says instead of swinging a ball or making Yao actually work for positioning, that he just shouldn't be "fouled."

 

[MrJayremmie]

LOL!

1. Its the playoffs, stop being pussys
2. If they are going to call it tighter with Yao, they better call it with Roy/LMA getting bumped driving or getting position. Scola would foul out in the first quarter and so would Artest.
3. Our bigs got like 16 fouls last game so STFU.

Wow, ridiculous. They get all physical and people say this is the playoffs the Blazers need to adjust. So when they do, and be physical right back they call foul. Talk about some soft-ass pussies. Deal with it. The refs can either call it like that (and they do BOTH way, and even favor the Rockets, imo) or they can call it tight, and better both ways... I better see Yao in serious foul trouble, Scola and Artest as well.

Anyway, whoever said we set a lot of moving screens is correct. We do. I have no problem with them being called, as long as those go both ways as well.

 

[durvasa]

Our bigs do set more than an average number of moving screens. I think Oden is just anxious to get to the basket.

I'm just disappointed in Adelman. Never would've though he would stoop to this. Everyone knows how tough and rumble Houston is as a team and then they come out and claim their guys are being roughed up???!?!

Excessive contact against Yao has been an issue for the Rockets all year. And you really can't compare what players like Yao and Shaq have to deal with in terms of contact in the paint and what perimeter guys like Roy contend with. It's on a totally different level. Of course Adelman will talk about it. And you honestly don't think that Portland complained to the league after game 1? In a tightly contested series like this, every team will send in reports to the league after games to try to get an edge.

 

[Webster's Dictionary]

Another thing the Rockets didn't like were what they considered moving screens by Portland's bigs to free up Brandon Roy.

The whole game I was complaining about Scola, Landry, Battier and Artest's moving screens (and Yao too, but not as much). Houston is just as bad if not worse at doing them as Portland. It's all blinders, both ways. It's the fact that Houston is actually complaining to the league that's hilarious after we got so badly jobbed in game one. Game 2 was inconsistent but pretty fair IMO. At the time I felt like we got worse calls, especially in the first 3 quarters and it was pretty even in the 4th so therefor it was in Houston's favor, but looking back it was just very inconsistent.

All I know is that if it is overly biased in Houston's favor tonight, Stern and the NBA has lost that last once of credibility they had to me, and so many of my ex-NBA loving friends cite the refs as the reason they don't watch basketball anymore. Just saying, some diehards like us will never go even if every game is fixed, but there's a reason why the NBA isn't pulling in the ratings it once did and one of the big ones is the reffing.

 

[durvasa]

...still waiting for the Rockets' fan who was going to post the Oden video with his "fouls."

I said if I had time I'd post a video comparing the fouls called on Oden with the alleged no calls for Yao. It's a matter of transferring the video from my DVR to my computer, and editing it, which would take a number of hours. Something tells me, based on the comments of a few posters made here, that the time it takes me to do that wouldn't be worth the effort. There's really too much nuance in how NBA refs calls fouls, so on plays where its really a judgment call ("incidental contact" vs foul-worthy contact, blocking foul vs no call) it will be hard to convince fans that have already made up their minds.

 

[durvasa]

The whole game I was complaining about Scola, Landry, Battier and Artest's moving screens (and Yao too, but not as much). Houston is just as bad if not worse at doing them as Portland. It's all blinders, both ways. It's the fact that Houston is actually complaining to the league that's hilarious after we got so badly jobbed in game one. Game 2 was inconsistent but pretty fair IMO. At the time I felt like we got worse calls, especially in the first 3 quarters and it was pretty even in the 4th so therefor it was in Houston's favor, but looking back it was just very inconsistent.

All I know is that if it is overly biased in Houston's favor tonight, Stern and the NBA has lost that last once of credibility they had to me, and so many of my ex-NBA loving friends cite the refs as the reason they don't watch basketball anymore. Just saying, some diehards like us will never go even if every game is fixed, but there's a reason why the NBA isn't pulling in the ratings it once did and one of the big ones is the reffing.

That's cool. My perspective is that the Rockets just outplayed the Blazers in game 1, and the refs decided to allow the teams to play instead of calling it tight. That favors the Rockets, because they're tougher, smarter, and more experienced on defense. A certain amount of contact is allowed if done in a particular way, and veteran teams are better at picking up on those things than young teams. Couple that with the Rockets just playing really well on offense, and the Blazers not giving a great effort at all, and its a blowout.

In game 2, the refs decided to take more "control" over the game, and as you said I thought they were inconsistent. It probably went both ways. It's funny to me how you want to criticize the Rockets for complaining about certain calls from game 2; I'm almost positive the Blazers did the exact same thing after game 1. In fact, I'm sure both teams will report their grievances to the league regularly throughout the series. My understanding is that this is standard procedure in the playoffs.

 

[LOTBfan]

We are having a playoff party tonight, and I am making every guest read the flopping article in this weeks SI before they get their first beer. We may be rowdy fanboys, but at least we will be educated.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

I'm almost positive the Blazers did the exact same thing after game 1. In fact, I'm sure both teams will report their grievances to the league regularly throughout the series.

Proof?

I can tell you that I have seen nothing from the Trail Blazers complaining about the officials. Nothing.

So what would make you "positive" and "sure"?

 

[durvasa]

Proof?

I can tell you that I have seen nothing from the Trail Blazers complaining about the officials. Nothing.

So what would make you "positive" and "sure"?

I have no proof. I know it is something teams are allowed to do, I regularly read about teams doing so (particularly in the playoffs), and I understand the Blazers to be a well-runned, well-organized team that wouldn't be falling asleep during the playoffs by not staying in contact with the league over officiating. If the Blazers genuinely felt that bad calls were being systematically made against them and they did not talk to the league about it, then they are foolish.

But, hey, maybe I'm wrong. Why don't you ask one your beat writers (Freeman or Quick) if the Blazers have contacted the league about calls they feel are being unfairly called or not called against them? I'd be shocked if he answered "no".

 

[Crimson the Cat]

I have no proof.

That's what I thought.

Why don't you ask one your beat writers (Freeman or Quick) if the Blazers have contacted the league about calls they feel are being unfairly called or not called against them?

Why don't you. You're the one coming on making assertions without anything but assumptions to back them up.

 

[MAS RipCity]

Yao is the biggest wuss in the League. I hope Greg backs him down, turns, than monster dunks on him.

 

[MrJayremmie]

All I heard from the Blazers say is not to worry about the reffing, and talking about how they need to improve and match Houston's toughness and physicality. They did in game 2. Shouldn't be a problem.

Again, if the Rockets want the refs to call it tight, and if they do it both ways, I really think that will heavily favor the Blazers.

 

[durvasa]

Why don't you. You're the one coming on making stating assertions without anything but assumptions to back them up.

You guys are implicitly making assumptions that the Blazers have not complained to the league when you criticize the Rockets for doing so. I'm merely responding to you guys; I didn't the start the topic.

You think the Blazers wouldn't do that, I guess simply for the fact that they haven't explicitly said they've done so in whatever media reports you've read. I've explained why I consider that unlikely -- I'm "assuming" rational people run the Blazers and they wouldn't miss an opportunity to make their displeasure with certain calls known to the league.

 

[Blazer4life]

You guys are implicitly making assumptions that the Blazers have not complained to the league when you criticize the Rockets for doing so. I'm merely responding to you guys; I didn't the start the topic.

You think the Blazers wouldn't do that, I guess simply for the fact that they haven't explicitly said they've done so in whatever media reports you've read. I've explained why I consider that unlikely -- I'm "assuming" rational people run the Blazers and they wouldn't miss an opportunity to make their displeasure with certain calls known to the league.

Oh, I agree with you on that. I'm even sure that the Blazers sent game film to league to argue their case as to what were blown calls. ALL sports teams do this, that is not what the thread is about though. The thread is about Adelman publicly complaining about the officiating towards Yao, and his team. This IMO is a bush league move in order to try and gain leverage on the officials to call the game tighter in Houstons favor by making his displeasure with the officiating towards his team known. I think you will see LOTS of calls go against the Blazers early, many of the questionable variety. If Portland can keep their composure, not get all caught up with the officiating they should be fine and it be a close game. If they let the officials dictate how they run their offensive and defensive sets, and let their emotions get the best of them the game will be over rather early.

 

[Paxil]

Blazers have been one of the least complaining teams I have seen this year. Roy will complain now... does some screaming that he didn't do last year, but overall they seem to leave the officials alone more than any team I have ever seen. It is interesting though that the best teams seem to be biggest complainers. Maybe it is competitive spirit... or maybe calls have a lot to do with determining the best teams.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

You guys are implicitly making assumptions that the Blazers have not complained to the league when you criticize the Rockets for doing so.

I can only speak for me and the few posts that I've read in this thread. You're completely wrong here. I have not made any such assumption. I haven't spoken of it because I have nothing to speak of on it. I have no first-hand or even second-hand knowledge that Portland has made any such complaints formally to the league. I'm not assuming a lack of actions on the team's part, I'm only not speaking of something I can't prove. This is something you should maybe try. I've found it works good in life.

You think the Blazers wouldn't do that, I guess simply for the fact that they haven't explicitly said they've done so in whatever media reports you've read.

There were times in the past when management has stated the intent to take issues up with the league. We've even heard reports in the past from the broadcasting crew of this as well. We haven't heard a rumble of such a thing in response to the officials in this series.

However, we have heard the whiny moans coming from down south in Houston. It's as if the Rockets are hoping that God will hear their pleas, come down from the heavens, and strike the Blazers dead. Whatever. It won't happen. Kevin Pritchard is God. And he's not on your side.

GGGGGGGGOOOOOOOOO BBBBBBBBLLLLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAZZZZZZZZZZZEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSS!

 

[durvasa]

All I heard from the Blazers say is not to worry about the reffing, and talking about how they need to improve and match Houston's toughness and physicality. They did in game 2. Shouldn't be a problem.

They may say that publicly, but do you think that they therefore probably did not communicate with the league about the calls that have been made? To me, that would be kind of incredible. If they genuinely think that they were getting the short end of the stick, then of course they want to let the league know that. I mean, if you were running a basketball team and you felt your team was getting screwed on certain calls, wouldn't you contact the league about it?

If Portland truly did not contact the league, what that would tell me is they truly don't feel the calls that went against them were unfair. But with all the hubbub from Blazer fans after game 1 and even after game 2 to an extent, that seems very unlikely.

 

[durvasa]

I can only speak for me and the few posts that I've read in this thread. You're completely wrong here. I have not made any such assumption. I haven't spoken of it because I have nothing to speak of on it. I have no first-hand or even second-hand knowledge that Portland has made any such complaints formally to the league. I'm not assuming a lack of actions on the team's part, I'm only not speaking of something I can't prove. This is something you should maybe try. I've found it works good in life.

Crimson Cat, you evidently have no opinion either way on whether the Blazers complained to the league, so there's no need to get defensive when I say I think they did and supply my reasoning for it. I never stated it as fact. As said I'm "almost positive". If I had proof to begin with, I would have chosen other words.

And if you've read only a few posts, your eyes perhaps glossed over all the posts that have suggested the Rockets are a bunch of whiners for complaining to the league (including the post I was responding to). The implicit assumption there is that the Blazers are somehow above this type of behavior. A naive opinion, in my view.

There were times in the past when the management has stated the intent to take issues up with the league. We've even heard reports in the past from the broadcasting crew of this as well. We haven't heard a rumble of such a thing in response to the officials in this series.

However, we have heard the whiny moans coming from down south in Houston. It's as if the Rockets are hoping that God will here their pleas, come down from the heavens, and strike the Blazers dead. Whatever. It won't happen. Kevin Pritchard is God. And he's not on your side.

LOL ... alright. Perhaps you haven't heard of it yet in this series for these reasons. After game 1, the team would look silly publicly talking about officiating when they were so thoroughly trounced for a far more obvious reason -- they were just outplayed, plain and simple. And you guys won game 2, so complaining publicly about officiating there wouldn't make as much sense as if you lost.

Next time you guys lose a closely contested game where officiating actually could decide the difference, and you get a bunch of bad calls, then we'll see what the Blazers talk about after the game. Until then ...

GGGGGGGGOOOOOO ROOOOOCKKKKKKKEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTTTSSSSS!

 

[MARIS61]

Sad that Rick feels he has to go PJ on the league rather than concentrate on how his team plays.

Lost a bit of respect for him. Glad Nate's never been a whiner.

Nice to know the Rockets have had their confidence shaken so easily, from the coach and star player all the way down to the fans.

 

[andalusian]

LOL ... alright. Perhaps you haven't heard of it yet in this series for these reasons. After game 1, the team would look silly publicly talking about officiating when they were so thoroughly trounced for a far more obvious reason -- they were just outplayed, plain and simple. And you guys won game 2, so complaining publicly about officiating there wouldn't make as much sense as if you lost.

If memory serves - after the game in GSW where the Blazers lost on some absurd calls - someone talked to Nate about it and his response was that it was all on us - if we did not allow it to get as close as it did - the calls would not matter.

I am not saying that Portland does not complain about calls - but they do seem to do very little about it.

Personally - I like the idea that the Rockets are talking about the calls - to my mind it seems like they are really worried about the outcome of this series.

Given the fact that the Blazers were called for a lot more fouls than the Rockets so far - I think that a closely reffed game would be beneficial for Portland.

Anyway - hope for a good game with no more injuries.

 

[oldmangrouch]

That's cool. My perspective is that the Rockets just outplayed the Blazers in game 1, and the refs decided to allow the teams to play instead of calling it tight. That favors the Rockets, because they're tougher, smarter, and more experienced on defense. A certain amount of contact is allowed if done in a particular way, and veteran teams are better at picking up on those things than young teams. Couple that with the Rockets just playing really well on offense, and the Blazers not giving a great effort at all, and its a blowout.

In game 2, the refs decided to take more "control" over the game, and as you said I thought they were inconsistent. It probably went both ways. It's funny to me how you want to criticize the Rockets for complaining about certain calls from game 2; I'm almost positive the Blazers did the exact same thing after game 1. In fact, I'm sure both teams will report their grievances to the league regularly throughout the series. My understanding is that this is standard procedure in the playoffs.

I agree, there is no reason to blame the officials for what happened in game 1. Even if they did a poor job (which Blazer and Rocket fans will never agree on!) the game was way to onesided to worry about it.

In game 2, the refs were inconsistent....but in the end, I don't think Portland gained any more than the "usual" home team advantage. I have no doubt the Rockets will get the benefit of the close calls in games 3 and 4 - that's just the way it goes. Late in the regular season, the Blazers were learning to deal with that, and they have to do the same now.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Proof?

I can tell you that I have seen nothing from the Trail Blazers complaining about the officials. Nothing.

So what would make you "positive" and "sure"?

Because pretty much every team does it in the play-offs. Some teams just don't risk saying anything in public. Some coaches/teams can get away with that. With less favored teams, going public could backfire!

 

[durvasa]

If memory serves - after the game in GSW where the Blazers lost on some absurd calls - someone talked to Nate about it and his response was that it was all on us - if we did not allow it to get as close as it did - the calls would not matter.

I am not saying that Portland does not complain about calls - but they do seem to do very little about it.

You would know better then me, as I don't follow the Blazers so closely. To me, even if the coach doesn't like to talk about officiating after games, in a playoff series both team will try to ensure they aren't getting screwed over by the officials. That includes communicating with the league about points of emphasis. That's not being a poor sport, or whiny, or anything like that.

Nate may have the personality where he doesn't like to complain to the media, and I can respect that, but I think the Blazers management would be remiss in their duty if they don't take up issues with the league during a tightly contested playoff series. I mean, if they genuinely feel that Yao should be called for more fouls at the basket, or our perimeter defenders are holding too much, etc., isn't it only rational to contact the league and make sure they are looking out for it? As a Blazer fan, wouldn't you be kind of ticked off if your team decided not to make any effort to ensure that their players are getting a fair shake out on the floor?

 

[Boob-No-More]

The whole idea that teams are allowed to lobby the league to change the way games are called during a playoff series is complete and utter bullshit. I blame Phil Jackson for starting this trend when he was with the Bulls. Now, everyone feels obligated to get in on the whining lest they get fewer calls in their favor than the other whiners.

A foul is a foul is a foul. The game should be called consistently no matter when the game is and no matter who the player is. This has roots in the whole "superstar treatment" the league started giving guys like Jordan 25 years ago. Now, they seem to have multiple sets of rules for different players, different teams and different situations. Now wonder there's so much bitching about the officiating. How can the officials possibly be consistent when they are actually EXPECTED to change the way the game is called from game and player to player?

The league needs to just step up and tell ALL coaches (but especially Phil Jackson - and now Rick Adelman, how disappointing): "We don't tell you how to coach, stop trying to tell us how to officiate the games". They shouldn't even accept "input" on the officiating from teams/coaches until after the playoffs are over. The officiating should not change from game to game just because someone whined about it. The officials themselves, and the league office review the tapes after EVERY game and grade the officials performance and make appropriate adjustments. They should be allowed to do this without outside influence.

The reason officiating is so inconsistent is precisely because they are trying to kowtow to so many people (superstars, teams, coaches, etc.) all at the same time. Leave the officials along and let them do their jobs. They know the rules, let them enforce them. It's what they are paid to do. They are not paid to bend to the whim of every superstar player and big name coach that's lookig for an added advantage. If you're as superstar, you already HAVE an advantage. It's called talent. How about relying on that instead of berating the officials into giving you special treatment.

OK, rant off. Sorry about that. I just long for the days when players and coaches let their actions on the court determine the outcome of games, not who could whine to the league the loudest between games.

BNM

 

[yakbladder]

Excessive contact against Yao has been an issue for the Rockets all year. And you really can't compare what players like Yao and Shaq have to deal with in terms of contact in the paint and what perimeter guys like Roy contend with. It's on a totally different level. Of course Adelman will talk about it. And you honestly don't think that Portland complained to the league after game 1? In a tightly contested series like this, every team will send in reports to the league after games to try to get an edge.

There's a difference between filing a report and blurting things out to the press. And after Game 1 only ignorant Aleutian Eskimos vacationing in a cave in Bulgaria wouldn't know that Houston got some sweet sweet lovin' from the refs.

You're right though, you can't compare what people in the paint have to deal with, like Pry...errr I mean Ode...err of course I mean Yao. Sure sure. I mean, after all, you'd freely admit that Oden gets the benefit of the doubt every time out, right?

 

[durvasa]

BNM, you'd feel the same way if you learned that Portland complained to the league about calls that went against them during game 1? Would you call that BS as well?

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm a fan of good, hard fouls. Aaron Brooks is slicing you up? Next time he comes into the paint give him a good bump that he'll feel in the morning. Makes it less attractive to take it to the hole.

 

[durvasa]

There's a difference between filing a report and blurting things out to the press. And after Game 1 only ignorant Aleutian Eskimos vacationing in a cave in Bulgaria wouldn't know that Houston got some sweet sweet lovin' from the refs.

Point out some specific plays, and we can go over them. I asked a couple times after game 1 for specifics, and I got none.

You're right though, you can't compare what people in the paint have to deal with, like Pry...errr I mean Ode...err of course I mean Yao. Sure sure. I mean, after all, you'd freely admit that Oden gets the benefit of the doubt every time out, right?

I would not. Excessive contact is allowed in the paint, and when players are battling for post up position it often goes both ways. But Yao, being so large, he is allowed to get beat on more than others. There isn't an offensive player in the league, outside of maybe Shaq, that gets pushed and shoved more than Yao.

 

[Natebishop3]

Point out some specific plays, and we can go over them. I asked a couple times after game 1 for specifics, and I got none.



I would not. Excessive contact is allowed in the paint, and when players are battling for post up position it often goes both ways. But Yao, being so large, he is allowed to get beat on more than others. There isn't an offensive player in the league, outside of maybe Shaq, that gets pushed and shoved more than Yao.

If Oden were actually allowed to play without getting into foul trouble, he would be right there with Yao in that category.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Crimson Cat, you evidently have no opinion either way on whether the Blazers complained to the league, so there's no need to get defensive when I say I think they did and supply my reasoning for it. I never stated it as fact. As said I'm "almost positive". If I had proof to begin with, I would have chosen other words.

First off, when you leave off the "the" in Crimson the Cat, my moniker loses the necessary importance that Crimson is a Cat and not a red-colored Cat. Please don't do that. Crimson would be mad.

It seems silly to use the word positive to back up your assertion when you're not positive. A less certain word would have been better IMO. I'm almost positive that I remembered to lock my front door when I left this morning. I have first hand knowledge that I've locked my front door in the past, and while I can't recall locking it this morning, I can say with most certainty that the likelihood of me doing it this morning is very high. However, you being positive that I locked my door this morning doesn't fly, right?

Anyway, while this is fun, I think we're going around in circles. I disagree with your use of the word. You feel it was fair to use it. Ok.

And if you've read only a few posts, your eyes perhaps glossed over all the posts that have suggested the Rockets are a bunch of whiners for complaining to the league (including the post I was responding to). The implicit assumption there is that the Blazers are somehow above this type of behavior. A naive opinion, in my view.

I don't think they're above making formal complaints to the league, but I do believe you won't see the Blazers whining like a 2nd grader that can't get his ball back from some bigger kids at recess.

LOL ... alright. Perhaps you haven't heard of it yet in this series for these reasons. After game 1, the team would look silly publicly talking about officiating when they were so thoroughly trounced for a far more obvious reason -- they were just outplayed, plain and simple. And you guys won game 2, so complaining publicly about officiating there wouldn't make as much sense as if you lost.

Next time you guys lose a closely contested game where officiating actually could decide the difference, and you get a bunch of bad calls, then we'll see what the Blazers talk about after the game. Until then ...

Portland's lost some closely contested games this season. I didn't hear the high-pitched screeches then. I don't expect to hear them in the Playoffs either. I suppose a situation could arise that warrants an outraged McMillan to be vocal. The one Adelman is bitching about though is baseless, IMO.