OT Roe V Wade In Trouble

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SlyPokerCat said:
Dude. Don't play dumb. There is a wide spectrum of what pregnancies cost. One child with perfect health does not equal one pregnancy with a child with special needs.
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You're talking completely separate instances. For the last time, I'm advocating for the unborn child.
 
ABM said:
You're talking completely separate instances. For the last time, I'm advocating for the unborn child.
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No, you said someone should be ready for the financial implications if a child. The spectrum is large. You don't know when you have sex and plant your seed that the kid is going to have any disabilities or disorders.
 
SlyPokerCat said:
No, you said someone should be ready for the financial implications if a child. The spectrum is large. You don't know when you have sex and plant your seed that the kid is going to have any disabilities or disorders.
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Yes, and?
 
ABM said:
Yes, and?
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It is sounding like you are advocating for families to get their financials in order before having children even if it means the child has special needs. Something they won't always know until the child is born. Or, we can be a better society and take care of our most vulnerable.
 
ABM said:
I'm not looking for any answer. You guys are.
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In a perfect world there would be no need for abortions. We live in a far cry from a perfect world, and it's moving the other way every day.

In the world we live in, abortions are necessary.

A woman should get to choose whether to bring a child into this world or not, regardless of her decision of having sex or not.

That Republicans want to force raped women and raped girls to give birth to the child of their rapist is fucking dispicable and reprehensible. I have seen some of the responses from Republican politicians who smile and say yeah they need to be forced to give birth. WTF?!

Wrong is wrong dude.
 
Chris Craig said:
In a perfect world there would be no need for abortions. We live in a far cry from a perfect world, and it's moving the other way every day.

In the world we live in, abortions are necessary.

A woman should get to choose whether to bring a child into this world or not, regardless of her decision of having sex or not.

That Republicans want to force raped women and raped girls to give birth to the child of their rapist is fucking dispicable and reprehensible. I have seen some of the responses from Republican politicians who smile and say yeah they need to be forced to give birth. WTF?!

Wrong is wrong dude.
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It is really simple. #1 - women raped. Should get the decision. #2 baby didn't develop vital organs by the 20 week mark, #3 - birth would kill the mother.

I don't know how anyone with a soul could look at those three situations and go, nope, no abortions for you.

Animals.
 
SlyPokerCat said:
It is sounding like you are advocating for families to get their financials in order before having children even if it means the child has special needs. Something they won't always know until the child is born. Or, we can be a better society and take care of our most vulnerable.
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We can be, both, responsible beforehand, while also well caring for our children after the fact. As mentioned, it's not an either/or equation.
 
For the record, my list above isn't all inclusive. There are other situations that warrant the choice too.
 
ABM said:
We can be, both, responsible beforehand, while also well caring for our children after the fact. As mentioned, it's not an either/or equation.
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What if they financially can't care for the child after having it and the child has multiple special needs?

Are you gonna vote for whats right this election for folks thinking about those situations?
 
Chris Craig said:
Wrong is wrong dude.
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Indeed.

That said, I personally think there should be exceptions/alternatives for health of mother, rape, etc., outside the control of the mother.
 
SlyPokerCat said:
What if they financially can't care for the child after having it and the child has multiple special needs?

Are you gonna vote for whats right this election for folks thinking about those situations?
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I think I already answered that. Everything possible should be done for the care/welfare of those children.
 
Even in a perfect world, where rape was non-existent and birth control was universally available and never failed, and everyone had access to comprehensive health care, and all children had nutrition and good schools, abortion would still be necessary. Although much less.
The world is far from perfect. And opponents if abortion oppose all the above.
It's about punishing women.
 
Republican congressman Murray of North Carolina just said abortion is not needed because there is no such thing as rape.
His exact words: no one is ever forced to have sex.
Punish the whores.
 
SlyPokerCat said:
It is really simple. #1 - women raped. Should get the decision. #2 baby didn't develop vital organs by the 20 week mark, #3 - birth would kill the mother.

I don't know how anyone with a soul could look at those three situations and go, nope, no abortions for you.

Animals.
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I agree on those situations, although they make up less than 5% of all situations. Most women who get abortions just decide they don’t want it, in which case they should decide before a certain point. Late term abortion over a lifestyle choice is honestly gross. It’s a viable human long before it exits the womb.
 
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jonnyboy said:
I agree on those situations, although they make up less than 5% of all situations. Most women who get abortions just decide they don’t want it, in which case they should decide before a certain point. Late term abortion over a lifestyle choice is honestly gross. It’s a viable human long before it exits the womb.
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The vast majority do decide before they become late term abortions.
 
jonnyboy said:
I agree on those situations, although they make up less than 5% of all situations. Most women who get abortions just decide they don’t want it, in which case they should decide before a certain point. Late term abortion over a lifestyle choice is honestly gross. It’s a viable human long before it exits the womb.
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Less than 1% of abortions occur after 20th week. In other words, over 99% of abortions happen before the woman is showing.

Abortion Surveillance 2019

In 2019, 629,898 legal induced abortions were reported to CDC from 49 reporting areas. Among 48 reporting areas with data each year during 2010–2019, in 2019, a total of 625,346 abortions were reported, the abortion rate was 11.4 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44 years, and the abortion ratio was 195 abortions per 1,000 live births.

From 2010 to 2019, the number, rate, and ratio of reported abortions decreased 18%, 21%, and 13%, respectively. However, compared with 2018, in 2019, the total number increased 2%, the rate of reported abortions increased by 0.9%, and the abortion ratio increased by 3%.

Similar to previous years, in 2019, women in their twenties accounted for the majority of abortions (56.9%). The majority of abortions in 2019 took place early in gestation: 92.7% of abortions were performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation; a smaller number of abortions (6.2%) were performed at 14–20 weeks’ gestation, and even fewer (<1.0%) were performed at ≥21 weeks’ gestation. Early medical abortion is defined as the administration of medications(s) to induce an abortion at ≤9 completed weeks’ gestation, consistent with the current Food and Drug Administration labeling for mifepristone (implemented in 2016). In 2019, 42.3% of all abortions were early medical abortions. Use of early medical abortion increased 10% from 2018 to 2019 and 123% from 2010 to 2019.
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https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/abortion.htm
 
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Late abortion isn't an abuse. It's medical emergency or severe fetal abnormality.
No woman, despite what misogynists say, sits around for 8 1/2 months and then decide to have an abortion because she has a little headache.
 
crandc said:
Late abortion isn't an abuse. It's medical emergency or severe fetal abnormality.
No woman, despite what misogynists say, sits around for 8 1/2 months and then decide to have an abortion because she has a little headache.
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I agree 100% about late term abortions. It would be crazy to do as you describe.

But the idea that abortion is never abused is wrong. It just is. I've known people who have abused it and used it as birth control. We can be honest about that.

That's not the way it should be done. Claiming that it never happens makes the point you're trying to make seem less trustworthy and opens it up to be picked apart (not you specifically, but as a general statement).

But making a law that restricts all Americans because of the actions of a very few, which impact a very few is wrong. Especially when there are alternatives which can be more effective.

There are shitty people out there, and they abuse every institution and law we have. But they are a very small fraction. A fraction that is best handled at the individual level.

Education and improving the social safety net, as well as increased access to healthcare are the best solutions for society to address these concerns.

Problem is, those things also make the population harder to take advantage of.
 
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People could abuse anything, I suppose. Not sure what constitutes abuse if birth control or abortion unless you mean trying to force someone.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I agree 100% about late term abortions. It would be crazy to do as you describe.

But the idea that abortion is never abused is wrong. It just is. I've known people who have abused it and used it as birth control. We can be honest about that.

That's not the way it should be done. Claiming that it never happens makes the point you're trying to make seem less trustworthy and opens it up to be picked apart (not you specifically, but as a general statement).

But making a law that restricts all Americans because of the actions of a very few, which impact a very few is wrong. Especially when there are alternatives which can be just as effective.

There are shitty people out there, and they abuse every institution and law we have. But they are a very small fraction. A fraction that is best handled at the individual level.

Education and improving the social safety net, as well as increased access to healthcare are the best solutions for society to address these concerns.

Problem is, those things also make the population harder to take advantage of.
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But she said abuse of late term abortion never happens. Yes. Some people use it as birth control. That(used to be) their right. But anyone doing that isn't carrying the fetus for 8 months.
 
crandc said:
People could abuse anything, I suppose. Not sure what constitutes abuse if birth control or abortion unless you mean trying to force someone.
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I hate even posting about this as it could be used to further the cruel cause, but a lady my mother grew up with (was a family friend when she was younger) had an insane number of abortions because she refused to use birth control.

She was generally into some really bad stuff. Hard drugs, prostitution, shoplifting... I can only imagine what else.

We know of over half a dozen abortions for sure, because friends and family helped her get them done. She should not have been getting pregnant, but I guarantee you that every one of those abortions was the right decision.

Her children were all taken by the state, thank goodness. She OD'd in a hotel room near Roseburg like 10 years ago.

Horrible situation. But these rare and tragic people are who the right will hold up as an example to support restrictions.
 
RR7 said:
But she said abuse of late term abortion never happens. Yes. Some people use it as birth control. That(used to be) their right. But anyone doing that isn't carrying the fetus for 8 months.
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Agreed.
 
jonnyboy said:
I agree on those situations, although they make up less than 5% of all situations. Most women who get abortions just decide they don’t want it, in which case they should decide before a certain point. Late term abortion over a lifestyle choice is honestly gross. It’s a viable human long before it exits the womb.
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Late term abortion is a basically a fearmongering myth created by the right. Across the board pretty much everyone agrees against late term abortion unless it's a life threatening emergency. Outside of that small percent, they don't exist. They don't happen.

By that point a woman has decided she's having the baby. The great majority of abortions are early ones.

And it should be up to a woman to decide if she wants to continue with the pregnancy or not at that point.
 
Chris Craig said:
Late term abortion is a basically a fearmongering myth created by the right. Across the board pretty much everyone agrees against late term abortion unless it's a life threatening emergency. Outside of that small percent, they don't exist. They don't happen.

By that point a woman has decided she's having the baby. The great majority of abortions are early ones.

And it should be up to a woman to decide if she wants to continue with the pregnancy or not at that point.
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Nah, ABM wants to get in the middle of God's will for this and force birth, but not when it comes to providing for others after birth. Because if they die they go straight to heaven.

Make that make sense.
 
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