OT Roe V Wade In Trouble

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RR7 said:
Survival of the human race, and breathing being a health risk has really seemed to devolve in to the point of arguing just for the sake of arguing, something you always claim you hate so much on here.
The core issue, healthy or not, is a woman's right to choose, regardless of why she makes that choice.
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Okay so now because you disagree or dont care for my questions about all the angles of abortion of healthy pregnancies, its devolving?

the core DEBATE is whether a woman has a right to also chose for the fetus and when does the fetus become a life of its own.

We WERE having a fine discussion about these things until someone had to blurt out some people can go fuck themselves. Now im the one devolving it?

yeah. No ones biased around here at all…


Yeah. Moving on.

It was a good discussion for a while there, i was seeing some of your points and just trying to discuss man…
 
Orion Bailey said:
Okay so now because you disagree or dont care for my questions about all the angles of abortion of healthy pregnancies, its devolving?

the core DEBATE is whether a woman has a right to also chose for the fetus and when does the fetus become a life of its own.

We WERE having a fine discussion about these things until someone had to blurt out some people can go fuck themselves. Now im the one devolving it?

yeah. No ones biased around here at all…


Yeah. Moving on.

It was a good discussion for a while there, i was seeing some of your points and just trying to discuss man…
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And I the same. But when you argue the difference between medical care and medical procedures, it definitely comes across as arguing for the sake of arguing That if I'm on this side, you have to disagree If not, then ok. But arguing the difference between care and procedures doesn't take the discussion anywhere other than where it is going. Then we start talking about potential health risks of pregnancies, as potential reasons to abort, and you bring up the risks of bfreathing. How does that move the discussion along?
 
Orion Bailey said:
okaaay but if one didnt want to reproduce there are many ways to enjoy sex without getting pregnant.
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And there are many ways to get pregnant even using those methods.

Regardless of having sex, forcing women to carry pregnancies to term is harmful to the woman and society as a whole.
 
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RR7 said:
And I the same. But when you argue the difference between medical care and medical procedures, it definitely comes across as arguing for the sake of arguing That if I'm on this side, you have to disagree If not, then ok. But arguing the difference between care and procedures doesn't take the discussion anywhere other than where it is going. Then we start talking about potential health risks of pregnancies, as potential reasons to abort, and you bring up the risks of bfreathing. How does that move the discussion along?
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how is that devolving though? Is it not true we must take the risks of pregnancy to continue as a human race?

So the risk of a healthy pregnancy to me is moot. It must happen for births to happen.
Just like we must breathe to continue living, we must also have pregnancies. They both have risks, but both must happen to ensure the human race continues. How is that more devolving than telling someone to go fuck themselves?

Not one person said a thing about that comment devolving snything.
Selective bias…

When i see that not called out, but calling me out for stating the health risk of a pregnancy is a risk we must take. Just like breathing…if we want to continue as a species.
 
Phatguysrule said:
And there are many ways to get pregnant even using those methods.

Regardless of having sex, forcing women to carry pregnancies to term is harmful to the woman and society as a whole.
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and many believe allowing women to have abortions is harmful to society. Many believe its a sign of society is heartless, selfish and lacking any responsibility and those traits are being passed down to generation after generation.

Many people believe allowing abortions is the degradation of our society. And on certain levels, they are not wrong.

We talk about how we have evolved from being animals.
Proove it. Stop killing our young like animals.

Animals have sex with no regard.
Humans have a conscience and a choice.

for the gazzillionth time, im not for abortion laws but it is treated as a far too casual thing and needs to be shunned more. And those having abortions because the healthy pregnancy is an inconvenience should be treated as losers in society.

but hey. Im gonna go fuck myself for trying to have a discussion. Maybe ill check back in to see if thats been addressed by anyone else actually trying to have a conversation..


Sometime i wonder why i try…
 
Interesting how these same antiwoman dudes scream bloody murder about wearing a mask. Putting a piece of cloth over their face in public is an outrageous attack on freedom. Forcing women and barely pubescent girls to carry every pregnancy to term in every situation is wonderful.
Freedom means straight white males can do whatever they want with no consequences while being free to take away everyone else's civil rights.
But say so and their feelings are hurt. Pobrecitos.
 
crandc said:
Interesting how these same antiwoman dudes scream bloody murder about wearing a mask. Putting a piece of cloth over their face in public is an outrageous attack on freedom. Forcing women and barely pubescent girls to carry every pregnancy to term in every situation is wonderful.
Freedom means straight white males can do whatever they want with no consequences while being free to take away everyone else's civil rights.
But say so and their feelings are hurt. Pobrecitos.
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Well, it's not always as you appear to suggest. We support a ministry (actually, will be attending a fund-raising event this evening, as well) that takes a non-governmental approach towards helping young women and girls out of various dire straights....including unwanted pregnancies.

https://mercymultiplied.com/about-mercy/
 
Oh gee, say a prayer while forcing women to carry pregnancy against their will. How sweet.
 
crandc said:
Oh gee, say a prayer while forcing women to carry pregnancy against their will. How sweet.
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You're cruel if you can sarcastically think organizations such as Mercy Multiplied have no positive bearing on certain outcomes. Nobody said forcing women to anything was part of this context.
 
Orion Bailey said:
and many believe allowing women to have abortions is harmful to society. Many believe its a sign of society is heartless, selfish and lacking any responsibility and those traits are being passed down to generation after generation.

Many people believe allowing abortions is the degradation of our society. And on certain levels, they are not wrong.

We talk about how we have evolved from being animals.
Proove it. Stop killing our young like animals.

Animals have sex with no regard.
Humans have a conscience and a choice.

for the gazzillionth time, im not for abortion laws but it is treated as a far too casual thing and needs to be shunned more. And those having abortions because the healthy pregnancy is an inconvenience should be treated as losers in society.

but hey. Im gonna go fuck myself for trying to have a discussion. Maybe ill check back in to see if thats been addressed by anyone else actually trying to have a conversation..


Sometime i wonder why i try…
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So you're talking about dogma and personal feelings (which is disputed by all data) being forced on the masses.

Yeah, I'm 100% opposed to that.

Nobody is opposed to teaching ways to prevent becoming pregnant.

Nobody is advocating for more abortions. Nobody.
 
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ABM said:
You're cruel if you can sarcastically think organizations such as Mercy Multiplied have no positive bearing on certain outcomes. Nobody said forcing women to anything was part of this context.
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Complaints by former residents of Mercy Ministries include "emotionally cruel and medically unproven techniques", such as exorcism and residents being required to sign over social welfare payments to Mercy Ministries.[25] Girls in their care are forbidden to reveal to others why they are enrolled, all disorders are treated the same because they believe they are all caused by demons.[15]

Since early 2008, the organization has attracted considerable media attention in Australia, followed by the United States and the United Kingdom, drawing criticism of their employment of unqualified staff,[15] overall medical negligence,[26] seizing benefit payments of patients in contradiction to their promise of not charging for services, and the use of demonic deliverance in their approach to treatment.[27] One member of the Australian Parliament referred to the organization as "a particularly bad example of a money-making cult."[15]

The company's rebranding efforts from Mercy Ministries to Mercy Multiplied, but also including the new brand A Girl Called Hope in New Zealand, were criticized as attempts to silence critics.[28]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercy_Multiplied
 
ABM said:
You're cruel if you can sarcastically think organizations such as Mercy Multiplied have no positive bearing on certain outcomes. Nobody said forcing women to anything was part of this context.
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This feels like you're changing the narrative. Nobody has a problem with anybody being opposed to abortion or trying to help women in tough situations.

Only with making laws which prevent women from making their own choice about their own body.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Complaints by former residents of Mercy Ministries include "emotionally cruel and medically unproven techniques", such as exorcism and residents being required to sign over social welfare payments to Mercy Ministries.[25] Girls in their care are forbidden to reveal to others why they are enrolled, all disorders are treated the same because they believe they are all caused by demons.[15]

Since early 2008, the organization has attracted considerable media attention in Australia, followed by the United States and the United Kingdom, drawing criticism of their employment of unqualified staff,[15] overall medical negligence,[26] seizing benefit payments of patients in contradiction to their promise of not charging for services, and the use of demonic deliverance in their approach to treatment.[27] One member of the Australian Parliament referred to the organization as "a particularly bad example of a money-making cult."[15]

The company's rebranding efforts from Mercy Ministries to Mercy Multiplied, but also including the new brand A Girl Called Hope in New Zealand, were criticized as attempts to silence critics.[28]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercy_Multiplied
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Reference can't be found.
 
Phatguysrule said:
This feels like you're changing the narrative. Nobody has a problem with anybody being opposed to abortion or trying to help women in tough situations.

Only with making laws which prevent women from making their own choice about their own body.
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I'm not about making laws forcing women to carry their babies to birth. However, I am all about supporting resources and organizations that help prevent abortions. The context of my beliefs seems appropriate in this thread.
 
As someone that kind of leans libertarian in a few areas, more government rule over women should not happen. It's their body and life. But I also feel we should take away incentives for women to have kids as simply away to generate income.
 
Phatguysrule said:
So you're talking about dogma and personal feelings (which is disputed by all data) being forced on the masses.

Yeah, I'm 100% opposed to that.

Nobody is opposed to teaching ways to prevent becoming pregnant.

Nobody is advocating for more abortions. Nobody.
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But yet when trying to discuss things its okay to be told to go fuck myself.

Trying to have a discussion about when a fetus is considered life and when abortions shouldn't happen because of this is soo bad.

No one is telling a certain someone we have the right to discuss either.

This all got derailed when a certain someone jumped in with passive aggressive bullshit and others supported that behavior.

After seeing such behavior supported, I lose the motive to discuss on the up and up with anyone who supports that shit.

so im not really into this anymore. Too much selective bias on devolvement, derailment and the like…


Its a one sided convo around here because of the selective bias exhibited by many.
 
ABM said:
You're sicker than I had thought.
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demon-dog-cover-1.jpg
 
ABM said:
You're cruel if you can sarcastically think organizations such as Mercy Multiplied have no positive bearing on certain outcomes. Nobody said forcing women to anything was part of this context.
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So if a woman comes in and says she absolutely positively wants an abortion do you refer her to Planned Parenthood? Help her navigate all the hoops men make women jump through to prove we are worthy of making our own life decisions?
I know, a good handmaiden should be polite while her civil rights are taken away.
I don't feel polite.
I am polite to those who consider me fully human, not an earthen vessel.
 
Orion Bailey said:
The only ones enraged are those telling others to go fuck themselves.
A conversation was being had… nothing more.

smfh….
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I wasn't addressing you with my post or your back and forth with crandc....my post was aimed at the topic, not a forum member....trying to "have" a conversation had nothing to do with you....no need to drag me into it unless you want to address protecting fertility and banning sterilization or contraception.....I have many Catholics in my family tree and it's been a topic for a long time. The whole concept that sex is for procreation and not recreation is a Christian fundamentalist stance....as I mentioned...the fundamentalist Islamics have many sex taboos in their rule book and punishment is cruel for straying. Whatever......this thread is not all about you dude. I agree with crandc on the subject...maybe that's where you have a problem with my posting a pro choice statement. Nobody is stopping you from poking holes in the opposing view.
 
ABM said:
I'm not about making laws forcing women to carry their babies to birth. However, I am all about supporting resources and organizations that help prevent abortions. The context of my beliefs seems appropriate in this thread.
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As long as she's making her own choice and not being coerced nobody has a problem with that.

It looks like the programs you support engage in coercion at minimum, and possibly worse.

This is why it should just be her own choice and our education system should educate our youth, and our social services should have approved documentation to share, and the doctor should answer any questions she may have.
 
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A friend of mine is a practicing Catholic. Went to Mass every Sunday until pandemic. She drove a colleague to an appointment for an abortion. She said although it conflicted with church teaching she felt she could not judge choice another person made in a situation she herself never faced.

Then went to Confession.
 
ABM said:
I'm not about making laws forcing women to carry their babies to birth. However, I am all about supporting resources and organizations that help prevent abortions. The context of my beliefs seems appropriate in this thread.
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Right. You just vote for people who are...
 
Hoopguru said:
As someone that kind of leans libertarian in a few areas, more government rule over women should not happen. It's their body and life. But I also feel we should take away incentives for women to have kids as simply away to generate income.
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You can't generate income by having kids unless you make them work for you.

Kids cost more than any government benefit provides.
 
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