ROY comments on our offense - is there a problem here?

[HailBlazers]

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

Good Points in this Thread.

I'm pretty torn on this issue, but Once Again only time will tell my friends.

 

[RipCityInsider]

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

We should be blessed we have a true leader on our team who wants the ball in his hands. Coach's love when their leaders bring that attitude. He is a competitor and he is filling his leadership duties.

 

[BGrantFan]

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

What's the problem here? The best and most creative offensive player on the team wants the ball more? I don't consider that a problem.

For reasons I can't explain, many posters on this board seem to want Roy to play off of the ball more.

 

[BGrantFan]

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

Without Andre Miller, we dont even make the playoffs

Link?

 

[B-Roy]

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

My point is, if last year, we would have kept Blake and played the way Roy wanted to, we wouldnt have made the playoffs

Right, because Andre Miller is a bigger part of this team than Brandon Roy, and we didn't make the playoffs two years ago with Blake and Roy starting.

 

[BGrantFan]

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

My point is, if last year, we would have kept Blake and played the way Roy wanted to, we wouldnt have made the playoffs

Link?

 

[BGrantFan]

Quick has an article on the quotes: http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index.ssf/2010/10/i_want_the_ball_a_lot_more_all.html

Some interesting excerpts:

Gee, Roy seems to be advocating what I was advocating in this thread through my "thick-headed" skull.

 

[BGrantFan]

I do admit this. If defending the position that Brandon Roy should be the focus of the offense brings me derision, and that role could even be expanded, then I am totally fine with holding that position.

Get back to high-fiving each other over whatever points you were making.

Maybe one of Roy's Boyz read this thread.

 

[Natebishop3]

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

For reasons I can't explain, many posters on this board seem to want Roy to play off of the ball more.

Well, he IS a "shooting" guard

 

[BGrantFan]

Warning: Turn away Zags, this will only anger you.

A scout friend of mine who works for the Mavs has said multiple times that Portland's offense is easy to game plan against. He always goes on to say "it's keeping them off the boards that kills you"

Then it's not easy to game plan against.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Well, it kind of is if you're playing Juwan Howard and Jeff Pendergraph 51% of your team's minutes at the 4 or 5. But that won't happen this year.

 

[HailBlazers]

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

I just want to see more ball movement so the whole team gets good looks.

 

[RoyToy]

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

"Fuck Brandon Roy"

That's about all I need to know about OSU"Blazerfan"

 

[RR7]

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

"Fuck Brandon Roy"

That's about all I need to know about OSU"Blazerfan"

+1. I remember this same shit the past two seasons, with him starting off slow. Trade him. Build around..X. Put in a running team to benefit one half of the roster, and not the half including your best player, etc.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

For reasons I can't explain, many posters on this board seem to want Roy to play off of the ball more.

I have an admittedly unsupported belief that he will be able to get better shots if he learns how to play off the ball more. I want him to take shots--lots of shots, more than he takes now--but I don't want him to have to create all his scoring opportunities for himself. I believe that if Roy allowed him to, Miller could make it easier for Roy to score, make him even more efficient than he already is. Possibly, it could also make his scoring opportunities less stressful on his body, help him take less of a pounding, potentially extending his career and his prime, if he were to get the ball in more space, take shots that were less contested.

Obviously, I could be way off here. But I'd like to see what would happen if Roy were to commit himself to this notion for a period of time.

 

[Masbee]

Warning: Turn away Zags, this will only anger you.

A scout friend of mine who works for the Mavs has said multiple times that Portland's offense is easy to game plan against. He always goes on to say "it's keeping them off the boards that kills you"

You do realize that is BY DESIGN, right?

This statement is like saying, "the Cav's offense with LeBron was easy to game plan against. It's keeping LeBron from scoring so much that kills you."

You can't rationally critisize a plan, then claim a core goal element of that plan properly executed is random good luck.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

You do realize that is BY DESIGN, right?

This statement is like saying, "the Cav's offense with LeBron was easy to game plan against. It's keeping LeBron from scoring so much that kills you."

You can't rationally critisize a plan, then claim a core goal element of that plan properly executed is random good luck.

You're saying that our offense is designed for our players to take difficult, contested shots, with the assumption that we would get a high percentage of offensive rebounds? Wouldn't a better design be for our players to take easier shots, but still get a high percentage of offensive rebounds? I don't see why offensive rebounding and efficient offensive sets need be mutually exclusive.

 

[BGrantFan]

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

I have an admittedly unsupported belief that he will be able to get better shots if he learns how to play off the ball more. I want him to take shots--lots of shots, more than he takes now--but I don't want him to have to create all his scoring opportunities for himself. I believe that if Roy allowed him to, Miller could make it easier for Roy to score, make him even more efficient than he already is. Possibly, it could also make his scoring opportunities less stressful on his body, help him take less of a pounding, potentially extending his career and his prime, if he were to get the ball in more space, take shots that were less contested.

Obviously, I could be way off here. But I'd like to see what would happen if Roy were to commit himself to this notion for a period of time.

Perhaps. My thoughts on Roy are based by what his peers say. When guys like Kobe Bryant compare Roy's all-around offensive game to their own game, it tells me that Roy needs the ball more, so he can create for others. This is my opinion only, of course, but when I read some of the posts about Roy needing to defer, or to completely change his offensive game, my brain equates it to a horse trainer trying to convert his thoroughbred into a quarter horse.

I could be overrating Roy's offensive game, I suppose, but I'd rather miss on the side of giving the ball to my best player too much over too little. That's my approach; I guess I would trust my star player to make the proper decisions over anybody else on my roster.

 

[Ed O]

Then it's not easy to game plan against.

You do realize that is BY DESIGN, right?

This statement is like saying, "the Cav's offense with LeBron was easy to game plan against. It's keeping LeBron from scoring so much that kills you."

You can't rationally critisize a plan, then claim a core goal element of that plan properly executed is random good luck.

Do you guys think a key part of the offense is to set up for offensive rebounds?

I ask that seriously, because I hadn't thought of it before. Intuitively, I associate offensive rebounds with individuals rather than systems, but I admit I might be wrong.

Ed O.

 

[DeanMoriarty]

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

EXCELLENT! Now we have a legendary player-coach ala Bill Russel, Lenny Wilkins, and Bob Cousy in B. Roy.

Get rid of McMillan!

 

[HailBlazers]

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

I have an admittedly unsupported belief that he will be able to get better shots if he learns how to play off the ball more. I want him to take shots--lots of shots, more than he takes now--but I don't want him to have to create all his scoring opportunities for himself. I believe that if Roy allowed him to, Miller could make it easier for Roy to score, make him even more efficient than he already is. Possibly, it could also make his scoring opportunities less stressful on his body, help him take less of a pounding, potentially extending his career and his prime, if he were to get the ball in more space, take shots that were less contested.

That's What I'm Saying. rrpt

My thoughts on Roy are based by what his peers say. When guys like Kobe Bryant compare Roy's all-around offensive game to their own game, it tells me that Roy needs the ball more, so he can create for others.

Also a good point.

 

[BGrantFan]

Do you guys think a key part of the offense is to set up for offensive rebounds?

I ask that seriously, because I hadn't thought of it before. Intuitively, I associate offensive rebounds with individuals rather than systems, but I admit I might be wrong.

Ed O.

Probably not directly, but if it is so easy to game plan against the offense, then why are defenders consistently out of rebounding position? I don't think Nate's plan is to have missed shots, but something must be difficult to stop the Blazers from rebounding the basketball on those missed shots.

Say what you will about Nate's offense, but it has been extremely efficient it terms of points/100 the past two seasons.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

This is my opinion only, of course, but when I read some of the posts about Roy needing to defer, or to completely change his offensive game

Honest question, but can you point out someone who has suggested Roy defer or completely change his offensive game? I'm asking because I don't think I've seen anyone suggest it.

Personally, I want him to get even more shots than he currently does which is, to me, nothing like deferring. In addition, suggesting that he add to his offensive game doesn't seem like suggesting he completely change his game. Getting more "easy" shots is pretty central to maximizing a great scorer. Every team that has had one has generally started plotting ways to get their scorer as many easy shots as possible. Why should Portland be different with Roy? Get Roy some number of easy shots, based on movement and scheme where Roy is the finisher and not the initiator, in addition to letting him isolate and break a defender down.

my brain equates it to a horse trainer trying to convert his thoroughbred into a quarter horse.

It's more like a boxing trainer teaching a boxer who is used to simply knocking opponents out with an overwhelming flurry how to win points with footwork and jabs. It's simply expanding his repertoire so that he has more ways to beat his opponent, not telling him to not use his great power.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

I could be overrating Roy's offensive game, I suppose, but I'd rather miss on the side of giving the ball to my best player too much over too little. That's my approach; I guess I would trust my star player to make the proper decisions over anybody else on my roster.

Here's primarily where we differ, I believe. I think that the fact that Roy is the team's best player does not necessarily mean that he's the team's best decision maker. That's why I say that I want Roy to take more shots, but I want Miller to have more control of the ball and the opportunity to put Roy in better scoring opportunities.

Essentially, when it comes to scoring, I definitely trust Roy more. But when it comes to making decisions with the ball, I'm more apt to trust Miller.

 

[BGrantFan]

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

That's What I'm Saying. rrpt



Also a good point.

I'll take my point a step further. In terms of getting your All-Star onboard completely, it seems it would be easier to convince him to take a back seat on offense AFTER he gets the chance to prove or disprove that he can be the focal point of the offense. In other words, Brandon got a taste of running the show in 2008-09. He was an All-Star, and he ended up 2nd team All-NBA. Last year, he was asked to change his game, and the results of the team were the same as the prior year, but with fewer victories and a lower seed.

If Nate gives Roy the ball to start off the year, and let's him be a Wade or Bryant, and it doesn't work, then I think it would be easier to convince Roy that he too needs to make major changes in his game. As it is now, from the outside, Miller comes in, Roy was asked to change his 2nd team All-NBA offensive game, the team floundered, and now Roy wonders what the fuck happened, and why they should go through that again.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

Here's primarily where we differ, I believe. I think that the fact that Roy is the team's best player does not necessarily mean that he's the team's best decision maker. That's why I say that I want Roy to take more shots, but I want Miller to have more control of the ball and the opportunity to put Roy in better scoring opportunities.

Essentially, when it comes to scoring, I definitely trust Roy more. But when it comes to making decisions with the ball, I'm more apt to trust Miller.

I'm in somewhat of the same boat. Roy is the better scorer and overall player, but Miller has made a career of being an excellent distributor. When it comes to distributing the ball, I think Miller is the better of the two.

 

[BGrantFan]

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

Here's primarily where we differ, I believe. I think that the fact that Roy is the team's best player does not necessarily mean that he's the team's best decision maker. That's why I say that I want Roy to take more shots, but I want Miller to have more control of the ball and the opportunity to put Roy in better scoring opportunities.

Essentially, when it comes to scoring, I definitely trust Roy more. But when it comes to making decisions with the ball, I'm more apt to trust Miller.

Yep. That's the difference. I just think that Miller's lack of outside shooting limits the offense too much and leads to rushed possessions, but I certainly don't think that you hold an unreasonable position, either. We'll see what happens next. It's always a soap opera around this team.

 

[Ed O]

Probably not directly, but if it is so easy to game plan against the offense, then why are defenders consistently out of rebounding position? I don't think Nate's plan is to have missed shots, but something must be difficult to stop the Blazers from rebounding the basketball on those missed shots.

I think it's because we have some good offensive rebounders... players that would get offensive rebounds in any system (within reason). Again, though: I'm not 100% sure about this.

I wonder if any prominent offensive rebounders under Nate have gone on to be inferior offensive rebounders under another coach...

Say what you will about Nate's offense, but it has been extremely efficient it terms of points/100 the past two seasons.

Yep.

Ed O.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Why Roy likes a slow game where he controls the ball... and why we should too.

We win when Roy is efficient.

In looking at Roy's game log for 09-10, and sorting through the various columns, I found that many stats one would think correlate to wins (points, free throws attempted, playing time, 3-point percentage) don't correlate as positively as stats that indicate a measured, mistake-free performance with help from teammates.

The major correlation in Roy's performance (based on his stats) and Games Won comes in Field Goal percentage (FG%), Turnovers (TOV), Personal Fouls committed (PF) and Assists (AST). These stats, which indicate a mistake-free individual game that gets teammates involved (and in turn indicates that Roy's teammates are hitting their shots), correlate strongly with the Blazers winning.

Let's look first at FG%: Roy shot 50% or better in 30 of the 65 games he played. In those 30 games, the Blazers went 26-4 (.867).

Let's look at TOV: Roy had 1 turnover or less in 29 games last year. The Blazers went 24-5 in those 29 games (.827)

Let's look at PF: Roy had 2 or fewer personal fouls in 45 games last season. In those 45 games, the Blazers went 33-12 (.733). When he commits one or fewer (20 times last year), this goes up to 17-3 (.850).

Let's look now at AST: Roy dished out 5 or more assists 38 times last year. In those 38 games, the Blazers went 27-11 (.710).

It makes sense given these stats and their correlation to Blazer wins that Roy would want a slower, more measured game where he handles the ball. A slower game gives him an opportunity to shoot a higher percentage and limit turnovers. Handling the ball more gives him the opportunity to set up his teammates more.

The correlation is fairly obvious: if Roy scores efficiently (not necessarily more; he averages fewer points in Wins than in Losses) and if the teammates he passes to can make their shots, the Blazers are in a great position to win.

 

[MickZagger]

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

We've won what exactly? (in the playoffs, where it counts)

Are we the first team that built a young nucleus and were bounced in the first round 2 times in a row? Had we a healthy roster last year and not an injured Roy and a beat up Batum with no true center to speak of, we would have beat Phoenix.