Roy > Kobe

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Deebag

Deebag

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I know there's been a lot of Roy threads lately due to last night's performance but I thought this needed it's own thread. And it's not just triggered from last night's game either, I've had these thoughts since the middle of the season. Do you disagree? Why? Defense is the only thing that Kobe is better at, and it took a while for him to develop that into his package. Also somewhat of a more consistent jumpshot. Other than that...

Better passer: Roy averages more assists and less turnovers.
Better rebounder: Roy averages the most o-boards a game for SG's that qualify. (Roy averages only 1 more minute than Kobe, so the numbers aren't really skewed)
Better teammate and leader: Roy, hands down. Kobe has improved, but you can still tell that it's forced and not natural. He's still an asshole. I really doubt Bynum has forgot about Kobe's 2007 summer comments.
Better scorer: This is arguable for the simple reason that Kobe is more stubborn. There's no denying he's a better offensive talent, but Roy is a MUCH smarter player about it. He does not take nearly as many bad shots. You'll hardly ever see Roy throwing up a 7 for 32 game. When his shot is off, he'll drive in and/or try to create for others. Roy is only behind Dwayne Wade in FG% for shooting guards that play substantial minutes.
Clutchness: Roy has already added huge credentials on his resume at a really early age. Wasn't Kobe air-balling his early years? And also, as many clutch shots as Kobe makes, he also has one of the worst FG% for game-winning/tying shots. Sure, he misses a lot because he's the guy who takes all the pressure shots. Just like Bret Favre has a lot of interceptions because he throws a lot. But Favre still has a great TD/INT ratio while Kobe is below average with his FG%.

Also, Kobe has a better supporting cast and better coaching.
 
Kobe has more pure skill but Roy is a smarter player. Which is what I say when comparing Kobe to Jordan.
 
It's not about who wins more categories. Depending on how you break up your categories, Steve Nash would probably win more categories than Shaq. But Shaq was a far more impactful player. Even if all you can do is score, if you scored 50 PPG on 80% shooting, you'd be the best player even if you couldn't do anything else. You have to go by the impact of the player's overall game, not just count up who wins the most "categories."

Kobe is still a slightly better scorer than Roy, a slightly better rebounder and a slightly worse passer. A prime Kobe scored more on equal or better efficiency. Roy is getting close to catching Kobe since Kobe's scoring efficiency has dropped. Now Kobe scores more but on slightly worse efficiency. Right now I'd say they're very close and the difference comes based on how you evaluate the defense of each player.

In his prime, Kobe was well ahead of the current Roy.
 
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Deebag said:
I know there's been a lot of Roy threads lately due to last night's performance but I thought this needed it's own thread. And it's not just triggered from last night's game either, I've had these thoughts since the middle of the season. Do you disagree? Why? Defense is the only thing that Kobe is better at, and it took a while for him to develop that into his package. Also somewhat of a more consistent jumpshot. Other than that...

Better passer: Roy averages more assists and less turnovers.
Better rebounder: Roy averages the most o-boards a game for SG's that qualify. (Roy averages only 1 more minute than Kobe, so the numbers aren't really skewed)
Better teammate and leader: Roy, hands down. Kobe has improved, but you can still tell that it's forced and not natural. He's still an asshole. I really doubt Bynum has forgot about Kobe's 2007 summer comments.
Better scorer: This is arguable for the simple reason that Kobe is more stubborn. There's no denying he's a better offensive talent, but Roy is a MUCH smarter player about it. He does not take nearly as many bad shots. You'll hardly ever see Roy throwing up a 7 for 32 game. When his shot is off, he'll drive in and/or try to create for others. Roy is only behind Dwayne Wade in FG% for shooting guards that play substantial minutes.
Clutchness: Roy has already added huge credentials on his resume at a really early age. Wasn't Kobe air-balling his early years? And also, as many clutch shots as Kobe makes, he also has one of the worst FG% for game-winning/tying shots. Sure, he misses a lot because he's the guy who takes all the pressure shots. Just like Bret Favre has a lot of interceptions because he throws a lot. But Favre still has a great TD/INT ratio while Kobe is below average with his FG%.

Also, Kobe has a better supporting cast and better coaching.
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Clutch play this season? Kobe's arguably the best considering the sample size.

http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM

Looks like a leader to me this season. And the Lakers and Kobe have played well against the top ten/good teams this season, unlike the Cavs for example. I don't know what is wrong with Kobe's rebounding either.
 
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Let's all slow down on this one. I love BRoy as much as anybody, but Kobe is at another level.
 
wtf?
 
thread-fail-stamp.gif
 
Deebag said:
Wasn't Kobe air-balling his early years?
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Yep. In his first playoffs, in a game against Utah, threw up a three point airball that would've won the game. THEN- in overtime, he shot THREE MORE three point airballs!

Roy is having a much better first playoffs.
 
He scores the most in clutch because he takes the most shots. How does that translate into good leadership at all? How great was the example he set for his teammates in the Portland game?

And no, Kobe is not at another level higher than Roy. I knew I'd get shit for creating this thread since Kobe is argued as one of the best players of all time but I just wanted to provoke some thought into the forum and this arguement is not cut and dry as some of you make it out to be. The two are very much on the same level right now. It's taken Kobe 10 years how to figure out how to lead his own team without Shaq. Take Kobe at 24 and put him in Roy's shoes. Yes, he had a better skillset, but his cocky and selfish attitude at that age would not have led this Blazer team to 54 wins in my opinion.

Also, its unlikely that Kobe will win more than 1 championship by the end of his career. He's about 30 years old, and is probably even older in NBA age since he came straight from high school. We can already see his explosiveness is wearing off (its still there, just not as much) and LeBron refuses to stop improving.

The Blazers that KP has built have a championship window for the next 7+ years. Roy will get Tim Duncan-like recognition after we win our multiple rings. And Duncan is definitely > Kobe.
 
Deebag said:
He scores the most in clutch because he takes the most shots. How does that translate into good leadership at all? How great was the example he set for his teammates in the Portland game?

And no, Kobe is not at another level higher than Roy. I knew I'd get shit for creating this thread since Kobe is argued as one of the best players of all time but I just wanted to provoke some thought into the forum and this arguement is not cut and dry as some of you make it out to be. The two are very much on the same level right now. It's taken Kobe 10 years how to figure out how to lead his own team without Shaq. Take Kobe at 24 and put him in Roy's shoes. Yes, he had a better skillset, but his cocky and selfish attitude at that age would not have led this Blazer team to 54 wins in my opinion.

Also, its unlikely that Kobe will win more than 1 championship by the end of his career. He's about 30 years old, and is probably even older in NBA age since he came straight from high school. We can already see his explosiveness is wearing off (its still there, just not as much) and LeBron refuses to stop improving.

The Blazers that KP has built have a championship window for the next 7+ years. Roy will get Tim Duncan-like recognition after we win our multiple rings. And Duncan is definitely > Kobe.
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He also has a true shooting percentage of 60 in the clutch, the same as Roy on far more shots. I see various talented players on that list failing to average that kind of efficiency. Don't get mad just because most of the league can't take over like that when his team needs it from all areas of the court, you're the one that brought it up vaguely to begin with.

He started playing without Shaq at 26 years old, so I don't understand how it has taken him "10 years" to lead his team on his own without Shaq. If anything it has taken him 3-4 years to show his ability to defer and take over at the appropriate time on a contender; not like he had much to work with in his prime either. 2 years to lead a team to the playoffs in the West by himself.

Rebounding? Really you even wasted time bringing that up?

One game as an example of leadership? How great was Roy in terrible game X? Pretty pointless way of proving your point. You failed badly at the intangible level here, using clutch stats from this season as one of the reasons to justify your post is simply silly. Kobe had 15.1 win shares on a 50 win team at 24 years old competing with a Prime Shaq for touches; Roy is at 13 this season.
 
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huevonkiller said:
Clutch play this season? Kobe's arguably the best considering the sample size.

http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM

Looks like a leader to me this season. And the Lakers and Kobe have played well against the top ten/good teams this season, unlike the Cavs for example. I don't know what is wrong with Kobe's rebounding either.
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Jesus Christ! According to that Carmelo is the most clutch player on the goddamn earth, 56% fg percentage and 58% from three. And .481 on game winning shots.
 
http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2009/04/behind_the_blazers_locker_room_13.html

At that point, Travis Outlaw came by on his way to the showers.

"Hey Quick. I've got a new name for him,'' Outlaw said.

"What's that?'' I said.

"Yellow Mamba.''

"Yellow Mamba?''

Roy interjects.

"Yellow Mamba. Like Kobe is the Black Mamba? I'm the Yellow Mamba.''

Why yellow I ask.

"My skin,'' Roy says.

"Or we can go red,'' Outlaw says. "You like yellow or red?''

"Well, I don't understand red.'' I say. "I get the yellow, but not red.''
"That's what I said. I can explain the yellow when we talk about it,'' Roy said.

Then he looked over to Outlaw.

"Yellow. Yellow.''

"OK. Yellow Mamba then,'' Outlaw said definitively.

"Yellow mamba,'' Roy said.

"We need to get that out there,'' Outlaw tells me.

I ask Roy if he likes the nickname.

"I like it, it's pretty good. Because the Black Mamba is the most deadly snake in the world. I'm not the most deadly, but ...''

I'm not so sure about the whole thing. For me, it's too close to Kobe's, not original enough. I ask Roy if he can really share a nickname like that.

"But I'm the yellow. He's the black.''

Hmm. We'll see.
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So basically, you have a severe mental disability if you believe anything you just wrote.
 
Honestly why the crap is this thread even posted? Right now we are in a dog fight with the Rockets.. this series has NOTHING to do with Kobe, the Lakers, or even California! Why is ANYONE trying to compare the two? Seriously what a stupid ass thread.
 
Look, I hate K*be as much as anybody and there's no way I would ever want him wearing the Scarlet & Black, but there's simply no way Roy is close to the player K*be is.
 
I'm a blazer fan. kobe sux. peace out. go roy!
 
KingSpeed said:
Yep. In his first playoffs, in a game against Utah, threw up a three point airball that would've won the game. THEN- in overtime, he shot THREE MORE three point airballs!

Roy is having a much better first playoffs.
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Airballs = missed FGs.
 
Da_O said:
Jesus Christ! According to that Carmelo is the most clutch player on the goddamn earth, 56% fg percentage and 58% from three. And .481 on game winning shots.
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82GAMES MANG. KANT GEAUX RONG!!! :ohno:
 
Kobe has accomplished more in his career. There's no way to compare them from that angle until both of their careers are over.

This season? I guess you can compare the regular season, but the playoffs have barely started, and it's kinda hard comparing performances against teams so drastically different. (Utah vs. Houston)

So Regular Season this year is what I'm going to go with.

Well I'd take Roy over Kobe on the Blazers in a heart beat, but I also think the Lakers are better off with Kobe than they would be with Roy.

Roy and the Blazers improved a lot more this year than the Lakers. The last 20 games or so they were playing at a rate that would have gotten them in the 60 win area if they'd been playing close to that all year. Because of that it's hard to judge the first two games these teams played head to head. In those games the Blazers looked young and nervous. By the second two games against the Lakers the whole team was firing on all cylinders, but the Lakers seem to have some problems in Portland.

They are both money in the clutch. I'm not talking end of game stretches, Brandon is more willing to defer when his team mates have a better shot than him, and while he can take over a game often chooses to rely on his team-mates instead. Game winning shots I'd take Roy over Kobe all season long. It's probably because I've see all of the game winners Roy's made this year, the only miss I can think of was on the road in Cleveland on the 4th game in 5 nights after a few 40 min + games and Roy looked tired as hell.

The most recent head to head Roy came out ahead down the stretch. He made shots and defended Kobe who jacked up misses that could have kept the Lakers in the game.

Comparing them this season I'd say is a wash. If you just stuck them on any team I'd take Kobe on any of the bad teams because he's willing to jack up a lot of shots and he'll make a lot of them and get you more wins than Roy could. On a great team like for the U.S. Olympics? If they were selecting this year based only on this season performance I'd take Roy ahead of Kobe because he's the smarter player, just as if not more clutch, and he's more of a team player. It would be by a very narrow margin though.

All this said the fact that we're comparing Roy to Kobe and not the other way around says a lot. In order to be considered one of the best you have to be really good for a long time, and produce big results. Kobe has, Roy has yet to have the chance. If Roy gets the Blazers out of the first round and gives the Lakers a run for their money with some big games I expect to see a lot more threads like this popping up.

As far as a prediction for how good they'll be at the end of their careers? I think Roy's got a good shot if he wins as many championships as the Blazers have the potential to. But that's a big capitalized IF.

Really that's what it'll come down to 20 years from now. If Kobe's got 3 rings and Roy has more, Roy's the better guy to build a team around (especially considering Shaq was the #1 option on those teams). Time will tell.
 
Roy in the triangle offense=the next MJ.
 
maxiep said:
Look, I hate K*be as much as anybody and there's no way I would ever want him wearing the Scarlet & Black, but there's simply no way Roy is close to the player K*be is.
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Yet. :P
 
Big road game for the Lakers. Kobe shoots 5 of 24. Let's see how Roy does tomorrow.
 
I have an idea, lets see how many rings without shaq each one of them has after they both retire...

And so far, BR7 has yet to quit on his team because hes mad at his coach.
 
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