Roy will take the next step to SUPERSTAR this season

[Minstrel]

Right so Kobe actually being a better player all of 2007-2008 including the post-season, is being biased?

Paul was a better player when you use ALL of 2007-08 (year before last). He has better regular season numbers AND post-season numbers. In 2008-09, Paul was better throughout the regular season and Kobe was better in the post-season. Bias is cherry-picking the 2008-09 post-season and waving off the 2008-09 regular season, the 2007-08 playoffs and the 2007-08 regular season.

Let's be honest, you just looked at PER on basketball-reference and thought that was the end

Not at all. I don't think PER is "the end." I think it's a lot better than "I'm a Lakers fan and I'll use whatever is convenient to claim that Kobe is still the best player and always will be the best player."

Kobe was the best player in basketball a few years ago. He's dropped off a bit from that and now is around the fourth-best player in basketball which is still phenomenal. I know that's blasphemy to you and even when he's retired, you'll be saying he's still the best player in basketball but "deferring" to his family. In your words: Don't worry about it, it's cool, brah. :] You're logical about most things, so I forgive your inability to discuss rationally about your favourite team.

Since you purposely keep missing the point on my Paul Pierce example (it was about your "he defers, which brings his numbers down" argument not about your beat-people-in-the-playoffs argument), there seems no point to continue with this. I don't feel like explaining the same stuff over and over. We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think Paul is "much much better" than Kobe as you incorrectly ascribed to me, but I think he's clearly better at this point.

 

[huevonkiller]

Paul was a better player when you use ALL of 2007-08 (year before last). He has better regular season numbers AND post-season numbers. In 2008-09, Paul was better throughout the regular season and Kobe was better in the post-season. Bias is cherry-picking the 2008-09 post-season and waving off the 2008-09 regular season, the 2007-08 playoffs and the 2007-08 regular season.

No he was not, Kobe played more minutes at similar Roland figures throughout the entire 07-08 season. Then while you mentioned Chris's amazing 31 PER in that year's playoffs, you ignore how Kobe crushed him in individual differential. 13.5 compared to 12 in the post-season, due to Paul's atrocious defense.

The fact that you had Jerry West above Kobe Bryant a few weeks ago troubles me a little bit, considering someone like you that understands pace and the fact that West has not played in significantly more games or won much. You're normally on top of these things but West played in an era that did not focus on defense as much or was as deep on the perimeter, yet you feel he is somehow still comparable to Bryant; he's not even there offensively either. Before your eyes you see how Kobe's "25" PER last year in the playoffs bested Paul who seemingly was at 30; Bryant's total value was equal in the regular season as well in 07-08. I thought Paul was better in this year's regular season, but then Kobe outplayed/outdefended Wade in the playoffs for example and had a 17+ against the best in the league. With all this information there is no way Paul is clearly better, and in Chris' peak in the post-season his defense has still cost him true prestige so far.

Bryant has been the more reliable and healthy player. He actually clearly had the better 07-08 season and was epic in the most important part of the year in 2009. His last run speaks for itself on multiple tangible and intangible levels.

Not at all. I don't think PER is "the end." I think it's a lot better than "I'm a Lakers fan and I'll use whatever is convenient to claim that Kobe is still the best player and always will be the best player."


Kobe was the best player in basketball a few years ago. He's dropped off a bit from that and now is around the fourth-best player in basketball which is still phenomenal. I know that's blasphemy to you and even when he's retired, you'll be saying he's still the best player in basketball but "deferring" to his family. In your words: Don't worry about it, it's cool, brah. :] You're logical about most things, so I forgive your inability to discuss rationally about your favourite team.

First off... I appreciate that. Don't ever get tired of that nice little season of his. ;] His true peak is even higher then that, over the last 70+ games that year he was at a level only Jordan reached, considering the 41 minutes a game and total production.

We all have biases, but I can't ignore how awful Paul is defensively compared to Bryant. It isn't my fault as I said before, that Bryant also had a historic post-season run as even b-r will confirm.

Since you purposely keep missing the point on my Paul Pierce example (it was about your "he defers, which brings his numbers down" argument not about your beat-people-in-the-playoffs argument), there seems no point to continue with this. I don't feel like explaining the same stuff over and over. We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think Paul is "much much better" than Kobe as you incorrectly ascribed to me, but I think he's clearly better at this point.

Hopefully I have addressed all your concerns by this point then.