Rubio in the Olympics

[BrianFromWA]

So do you feel he's going to bust, PapG, or just you don't think he makes us better NEXT year. I don't think too many disagree with you on that. I think most that want him want him to be a backup for us for a year or two, to get acclimated to the NBA, and then have him hopefully be our starter, while bringing in, hopefully, a vet to start the next couple years.

Like I said, I'm in the minority, but I think he absolutely helps our team next year if we draft him. I don't necessarily care if he starts, or Bayless starts and we wean Rubio along as the White Team General with Rudy, Webs, etc... but I think the kid is special and would definitely help us, even with the bumps along the road.

 

[PapaG]

So do you feel he's going to bust, PapG, or just you don't think he makes us better NEXT year. I don't think too many disagree with you on that. I think most that want him want him to be a backup for us for a year or two, to get acclimated to the NBA, and then have him hopefully be our starter, while bringing in, hopefully, a vet to start the next couple years.

I don't think he'll be a bust. I also don't think he'll be an All-NBA PG, either. But you pretty much hit my view other than mentioning how I don't think Rubio is worth taking on with a bad contract player like Etan Thomas as well. I don't see what he adds over the next few years, and I feel it would be wasted luxury tax.

 

[Blaze01]

That kind of speaks to my concern of how he will hold up playing 4x the games, doesn't it?

Ugh...no

He hasn't had numerous injuries prior to this...as far as I know...

Also, he shot 42% from 3PT in 22 ACB games, so I have to assume the wrist was OK at that point.

Not sure if he was or not...

 

[andalusian]

The Euro game allows for a more up-and-down pace, especially since you play about 1/3 as many games with significantly less travel.

I do not know where this comes from - but I do get to see more than enough Euroleague games during business travel - and the games always look like they are played in slow-motion compared to the NBA game.

 

[SodaPopinski]

I don't get it. Are the scouts, coaches, players and managers also wrongly sweating him? Maybe it's you that's not recognizing the special talent right in front of you.

Darko Milicic, Andrea Bargnani, Nikoloz Tskitishvili, Michael Olowokandi and I all had a pretty good laugh about your post.

-Pop

 

[Ed O]

Really? I beg to differ. I think a guy playing in one of the top conferences in the NCAA, through his AAU and college days (and some of them dating back to their prep days) has played against more guys with NBA talent. There are some top-level guys in the Euro leagues, but most of them are akin to D-League guys at best.

There are NO NBA-level players in AAU. None. Some future NBA players? Sure.

Griffin surely played against some NBA-level players in college, but I would bet he played against far fewer than Rubio did professionally and in the Olympics.

No. For the most part, the high levels in Europe are much more advanced. But I'm talking about a physical maturity. In most cases, I'd much rather have a guy who has gone through the rigors of American ball up until he's 21 or 22.

You will, in the long run, lose... at least according to the numbers. College juniors and senior lottery picks are less likely to succeed than international players and underclassmen.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/insider/news/story?id=4240924

Ed O.

 

[tlongII]

I'm not sure how I feel about Rubio, but there is no way in hell we'll get him so this thread is moot.

 

[Minstrel]

Darko Milicic, Andrea Bargnani, Nikoloz Tskitishvili, Michael Olowokandi and I all had a pretty good laugh about your post.

I don't think anyone is saying scouting acclaim makes a prospect a can't-miss. But NBA scouts are a lot more experienced in evaluating prospects than fans, so their acclaim is generally not just uninformed hype, as you implied was the only reason people are excited about Rubio.

 

[SodaPopinski]

Personally, I just think bringing Rubio in sets our timetable back a few years and doesn't take advantage of Brandon or LaMarcus's development schedules. I'd rather bring in a proven NBA player who can help us right away versus pissing away the present with another project at a key position.

Those of you who think Rubio = NBA championship are going to be sorely disappointed.

-Pop

 

[Cake]

No. For the most part, the high levels in Europe are much more advanced. But I'm talking about a physical maturity. In most cases, I'd much rather have a guy who has gone through the rigors of American ball up until he's 21 or 22.

-Pop

But you understand that Rubio has played against European pros from 14-15 years of age to 18. Now from 19-22, he'll be playing against current NBA talent. American high school kids play against American high school kids from 15-18 and (theoretically) college players from 19-22.

European pros>American high school kids
NBA players>American college kids

Better experience will lead to better play in the long run.

I guess basically all you're saying is that you want a guy with more physical maturity? It's not like Ricky Rubio is friggin' Peter Pan. He's going to get more physically mature.

 

[Minstrel]

Personally, I just think bringing Rubio in sets our timetable back a few years and doesn't take advantage of Brandon or LaMarcus's development schedules. I'd rather bring in a proven NBA player who can help us right away versus pissing away the present with another project at a key position.

I don't think it sets the timetable back. At worst, Portland will still have most of what they had last year, except A. improvement from their young core, B. a better back-up point guard, as I think Rubio would exceed what Sergio and Bayless gave Portland last year.

That would be a contender as is. To me, what bringing Rubio in does is upgrade the window. In a couple of seasons when Rubio is more developed, Portland will have that much stronger a core. For the decade-plus after that, Portland would have an unfathomably talented team, and not just a group of disparate All-Stars, but a group of players who have developed together and complement one another.

I'm certainly interested in Pritchard taking a shot at that.

 

[Blaze01]

Darko Milicic, Andrea Bargnani, Nikoloz Tskitishvili, Michael Olowokandi and I all had a pretty good laugh about your post.

So if Pritchard trades up and takes Rubio, are you going to laugh at his ability to evaluate talent?

b\c history to date would tell a different story....

 

[Cake]

Personally, I just think bringing Rubio in sets our timetable back a few years and doesn't take advantage of Brandon or LaMarcus's development schedules. I'd rather bring in a proven NBA player who can help us right away versus pissing away the present with another project at a key position.

Those of you who think Rubio = NBA championship are going to be sorely disappointed.

-Pop

I guess it comes down to whether or not you think we're ready to win a championship next season. I personally don't. So we bring in a veteran to hold down the fort until Rubio is ready. I don't see a problem there.

 

[Cake]

Darko Milicic, Andrea Bargnani, Nikoloz Tskitishvili, Michael Olowokandi and I all had a pretty good laugh about your post.

-Pop

What do Arvydas Sabonis, Drazen Petrovic, Dirk Nowitzki, Tony Parker and Pau Gasol think about his post?

 

[SodaPopinski]

What do Arvydas Sabonis, Drazen Petrovic, Dirk Nowitzki, Tony Parker and Pau Gasol think about his post?

Other than Gasol and Sabas, most of those guys were somewhat under the radar.

The guys I mentioned were all heavily hyped and went in the top 5.

I'm just saying there are a ton of examples of Euros who scouts thought were can't-miss NBA prospects that didn't pan out. And I thought it was a worthy response to someone saying "I guess you are questioning what several scouts and talent-evaluators have to say about Rubio."

-Pop

 

[PapaG]

But you understand that Rubio has played against European pros from 14-15 years of age to 18. Now from 19-22, he'll be playing against current NBA talent. American high school kids play against American high school kids from 15-18 and (theoretically) college players from 19-22.

European pros>American high school kids
NBA players>American college kids

Better experience will lead to better play in the long run.

I guess basically all you're saying is that you want a guy with more physical maturity? It's not like Ricky Rubio is friggin' Peter Pan. He's going to get more physically mature.

Oddly, his shooting is still poor and his stats don't look like those of a 4 year vet, and that's against inferior competition compared to the NBA. Perhaps he's Spain's version of Freddie Adu? Good enough to be on a roster of a decent team, but not worth giving away the farm or taking on the farm in terms of another contract.

 

[andalusian]

Did Rubio have as much talent around him and Kidd? Were their minutes per game similar?

Rubio played 4 more minutes per game - and no-one had as much talent around him as USA players - but Spain did have one to be NBA champion on the roster (Gasol), a starting PG (Calderon), 2 pretty decent rookies to be (Fernandez, the other Gasol) and one recent NBA player (Navaro).

Would you rather compare him to Deron Williams who actually player a little more per game than Rubio (not by much, about 1 minute more per game).

Rubio - 4.8 PPG, Deron - 8 PPG
Rubio - 4 RPG, Deron - 2.25 RPG
Rubio - 3 APG, Deron - 2.8 APG
Rubio - 2 TO/G, Deron - 1.5 TO/G

Deron is a much better shooter - so his FG% were higher - but overall - in the same amount of time - Rubio, 6 years younger than Deron who is close to entering his prime and a year removed from his rookie campaign - did not look like a complete fool - and Deron is a superstar in today's NBA...

Rubio is a great great prospect. Will he pan out? My crystal ball is not working now and it's a real problem getting the replacement parts from the manufacturer - so I can not be sure - but the kid sure can play basketball and has the potential to be a fantastic player...

If you are interested - try taking Rubio's ACB per-36 numbers and compare them to Derrick Rose's college per-36 numbers - you will find that Rubio is a superior distributor but Rose is a slightly better scorer... The kid's numbers are just fine...

 

[Mediocre Man]

Here is an interview with someone who played in the league with both Rubio and Jennings.

He likes Jennings by the way.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop...ngs--Roma-Teammate-on-Jennings-vs--Rubio.html

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Here is an interview with someone who played in the league with both Rubio and Jennings.

He likes Jennings by the way.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop...ngs--Roma-Teammate-on-Jennings-vs--Rubio.html

Correction: he played on the same team as Jennings. Which is in the Italian League. Which is in a different country from the ACB. Which is a better league. And if you read his reasons they're incredibly banal. Not exactly insightful stuff. "Jennings is a better athlete - so he'll be better". James "Flight" White is ecstatic to see that.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Darko Milicic, Andrea Bargnani, Nikoloz Tskitishvili, Michael Olowokandi and I all had a pretty good laugh about your post.

Reasons why you cited those guys:

• 
  They were all busts (well, Bargnani might actually turn out decent and Olowokandi showed flashes but obviously just didn't care) who were picked in the top 5 (4 picked either 1 or 2).

• They are all non-US players

Reasons why they are poor comparisons for Rubio

• 
  They're all tall - 7 footers or just shorter. People will gamble a lot more on height. (Hasheem Thabeet is the guy you should use that list on)

• Milicic and Tskitishvili (DAMN that name!) - the favorite poster children of the Kenny Smith style Euro-haters - never played any substantial time in the big leagues. They were being developed - they played for the D-League of big teams. In comparison, Pau Gasol DID play for Real Madrid. And Rubio DOES play for DKV Juventut. (Dunno about Bargnani.)

• Olowokandi played for a tiny college that he picked out of a phone book because he thought it would be by the sea. He didn't even play good COLLEGE players. Compare him with Adonal Foyle, but don't compare him with Rubio.

Players you should optimistically compare Rubio with:

• Tony Parker

• Manu Ginobili

• Juan Carlos Navarro (although he's a short 2G not a tall PG)

• Rudy Fernandez

These were all guards and veterans of actual upper-level Euro teams. If you're pessimistic, you could throw in Sarunas Jasikevicious, that Greek guard who played briefly for the Rockets (and hated Van Gundy)[Spanoulis?) and (maybe) Marco Bellinelli (not sure what level he played at). But notice that NOT A SINGLE ONE of these players was taken in the top 5 or ever projected as such. Unlike Rubio.

 

[Ed O]

Correction: he played on the same team as Jennings. Which is in the Italian League. Which is in a different country from the ACB. Which is a better league. And if you read his reasons they're incredibly banal. Not exactly inciteful stuff. "Jennings is a better athlete - so he'll be better". James "Flight" White is ecstatic to see that.

I dunno. I feel incited. Maybe I'll go throw a trash can through a Starbucks window or something?

Ed O.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I don't get erections based off of YouTube. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong ones.

You have to take "safe search" off. Who knew Rubio was also a porn star?

I pray for the chance to get an OMG Rubio Jersey in Blazer colors.

Come on now - haven't you seen his DKV Jersey? It'll be "OMG Ricky". I've already had mine made special.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I dunno. I feel incited. Maybe I'll go throw a trash can through a Starbucks window or something?

Ed O.

INSIGHTFUL. Smartarse. I guess I deserved that for picking on MM for "tripple".

 

[Mediocre Man]

Correction: he played on the same team as Jennings. Which is in the Italian League. Which is in a different country from the ACB. Which is a better league. And if you read his reasons they're incredibly banal. Not exactly inciteful stuff. "Jennings is a better athlete - so he'll be better". James "Flight" White is ecstatic to see that.

So you have nothing more than "Correction"?


He played with Jennings, and against Rubio. I said played in the same league. oops.


It's a guy who has a much better grip on both of them than any of us do. I am not saying he is by any means the one guy to base everything on, but it's an educated view on the two players. It was posted to show more insight on the PG's in this draft. I don't think Rubio will do shit in the NBA, but I think Jennings is Telfair part two, so I have no bias.

 

[Mediocre Man]

INSIGHTFUL. Smartarse. I guess I deserved that for picking on MM for "tripple".

People type fast. It happens. I have put three p's for triple as well. I am also a piss poor speller. It's what spell check and my secretary are for.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

So you have nothing more than "Correction"?

Huh? Is that like saying "you want a piece of me"?

He played with Jennings, and against Rubio. I said played in the same league. oops.

It matters. He saw Rubio as much as Chris Paul did. They both played Rubio ONE GAME, in an international competetion (Euroleague/Olympics). Chris Paul came away impressed. But I guess he never played Jennings...

It's a guy who has a much better grip on both of them than any of us do.

Well us - maybe. But we're bozos. But the people who are ranking Rubio in the top 5 have much more experience of Rubio. Ibrahim certainly knows Jennings better than most - but you've got to know both players to make a fair comparison.

I don't think Rubio will do shit in the NBA

What would Rubio have to do for you to admit you were wrong? Name something we can hold you to.

 

[andalusian]

It's what spell check and my secretary are for.

Amazing. I can't get my secretary to post on basketball forums for me. She claims it's not in her job description

 

[Mediocre Man]

Amazing. I can't get my secretary to post on basketball forums for me. She claims it's not in her job description

LOL mine has done it for me like 3 times. She rolls her eyes and calls me a dork.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Huh? Is that like saying "you want a piece of me"?



It matters. He saw Rubio as much as Chris Paul did. They both played Rubio ONE GAME, in an international competetion (Euroleague/Olympics). Chris Paul came away impressed. But I guess he never played Jennings...



Well us - maybe. But we're bozos. But the people who are ranking Rubio in the top 5 have much more experience of Rubio. Ibrahim certainly knows Jennings better than most - but you've got to know both players to make a fair comparison.



What would Rubio have to do for you to admit you were wrong? Name something we can hold you to.

Oh, I don't know??? I happily admit I was dead wrong about Brandon Roy. I have no problem saying I am wrong. According to some he will be all NBA, so what should we expect?

 

[hasoos]

I hate this discussion - because it ignores the kid's role on the team and it provides a very small sample...

If we were to use the same method to evaluate him against Jason Kidd he would look like gold...


Kidd (USA) | Rubio (ESP)

PPG 1.6 | 4.8
RPG 2.6 | 4
ORPG 0.8 | 1.4
DRPG 1.9 | 2.6
ASPG 2 | 3
TOPG 1.5 | 2
FG2P% 100% | 35%
FG3P% 50% | 16.7%
FT% 0% | 78.3%


----

Should we assume that Kidd can not lead an NBA team based on these stats?

Rubio is a prospect - probably one of the better ones out there. Of course he will not come into the league, put a team on his back and carry them to the Larry O'brian trophy. But - if you have a chance drafting him without breaking the core of your team - you would be silly not to, unless you know for sure that the Meteor is heading for earth and will hit before the 2010 Summer League starts...

At the same time, I also say that Jason Kidd isn't capable of leading a team to a championship, and hasn't been since before he left NJ. So now what does it say?