Rudy asks for a trade...

[HailBlazers]

Does Rudy start playing adequate defense in this hypothetical scenario?

Yes, In my imaginary scenario he is pumped up by his offense and the fans so much so that he plays defense, Not too imaginary though because I've witnessed it

 

[Reep]

My initial thoughts would be Suns (as above), NY (Suns East), Warriors (there is no D in Warriors) or Orlando (D. Howard and a bunch of shooters). Orlando has a couple of players they might give up if something else was added in (Bayless, etc.). NY and the Warriors don't have much to trade at this point. Bass would be nice, but you would have to add value.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Does Rudy start playing adequate defense in this hypothetical scenario?

Hey, Chris Paul made first team All-NBA just by getting steals, so why can't Rudy?

 

[Pinwheel1]

Are they going to play Dudley and Hedo together? Is Grant Hill going to get fewer minutes or play a different position? Dudley looks like third string SF to me, and who's their second string SG?

Besides, if Rudy plays like he did for us as a Rookie, I think Suns fans would come around pretty quick.

(I bet the Suns would prefer to offer Earl Clark. But I would hope we can do better than THAT.)

Lets not forget Josh Childress. Hedo will play the 4 in Phoenix, but I think Dudley would fit on this tean just fine. Sweeten the pot with another Spaniard.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

...Orlando (D. Howard and a bunch of shooters). Orlando has a couple of players they might give up if something else was added in (Bayless, etc.).... Bass would be nice, but you would have to add value.

Voila!

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Lets not forget Josh Childress.

Already fixed.

Hedo will play the 4 in Phoenix,

That makes too much sense not to be true. He did get like 19 rebounds in one game in Toronto and he's too slow to play SF any more. He should also flourish in Phoenix.

but I think Dudley would fit on this tean just fine. Sweeten the pot with another Spaniard.

No way! Victor Claver will be The Spaniard That Sticks! Maybe Babbitt? Do we assume that all defense-deficient whiteys would do well in Phoenix?

 

[B-Roy]

Are they going to play Dudley and Hedo together? Is Grant Hill going to get fewer minutes or play a different position? And I totally forgot about Josh Childress! Dudley looks like FOURTH string SF to me, and who's their second string SG?

It doesn't mean they should trade him for a lesser talent, or at least someone whose value is much lower.

Oh and Hedo is apparently their starting PF. I would imagine Hill or Childress get time at SG too.

Besides, if Rudy plays like he did for us as a Rookie, I think Suns fans would come around pretty quick.

Yeah, but why take the risk? Seems pretty pointless to me. I'm sure they could get someone better than Rudy if they were willing to trade Dudley.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

It doesn't mean they should trade him for a lesser talent, or at least someone whose value is much lower.

I think we should admit that we have no idea of how GMs value players after a Summer when Amir Johnson and Hakim Warrick get big bucks. And if you're a smart GM, you get a player who looks worse on the team he's on than he would on your team. Rudy's value to the Suns is almost certainly a lot higher than it is to us. At any rate, the Blazers will probably hold off trading him till after the World Championships, and he might look good playing for Spain.

Oh and Hedo is apparently their starting PF.

Maybe so, but they've just spent fair amounts of change on Hakim Warrick (4) and Childress (3), since last season. Their frontcourt rotation apart from Dudley looks like this:
C: Lopez (who will get a major uptick in minutes, I'm guessing) and Frye
PF: Hedo and Warrick
SF: Hill and Childress [Earl Clark will also fit in here somewhere, unless he's a complete bust]
Who's their SG? You're suggesting they play Hill or Childress at SG? But neither is noted for his shooting. And I don't think Dudley works at SG either. So they NEED a SG and they don't need another SF.

Yeah, but why take the risk? Seems pretty pointless to me. I'm sure they could get someone better than Rudy if they were willing to trade Dudley.

Since when did Dudley become so valuable? I think if you asked the majority of people who followed the NBA who they thought was more valuable, if they'd heard of both, it would be Rudy. Rudy seems to be that rare case where Portland fans are much more down on him than the rest of the league.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Yes, In my imaginary scenario he is pumped up by his offense and the fans so much so that he plays defense, Not too imaginary though because I've witnessed it

I hate guys who play that way ... 'cause when they stop hitting their shots their entire game flags because of it -- sort of like anti-playoff basketball.

 

[B-Roy]

I think we should admit that we have no idea of how GMs value players after a Summer when Amir Johnson and Hakim Warrick get big bucks. And if you're a smart GM, you get a player who looks worse on the team he's on than he would on your team. Rudy's value to the Suns is almost certainly a lot higher than it is to us. At any rate, the Blazers will probably hold off trading him till after the World Championships, and he might look good playing for Spain.

I like that you start by admitting we have no idea how GMs value players, then go on to say that the Suns value Rudy more than we do.

If the Suns are looking at Rudy, wouldn't they offer very little for him? At least according to your theory.

Maybe so, but they've just spent fair amounts of change on Hakim Warrick (4) and Childress (3), since last season. Their frontcourt rotation apart from Dudley looks like this:
C: Lopez (who will get a major uptick in minutes, I'm guessing) and Frye
PF: Hedo and Warrick
SF: Hill and Childress [Earl Clark will also fit in here somewhere, unless he's a complete bust]
Who's their SG? You're suggesting they play Hill or Childress at SG? But neither is noted for his shooting. And I don't think Dudley works at SG either. So they NEED a SG and they don't need another SF.

I don't see Clark getting minutes. I think both Hill and Childress can play SG, they can definitely guard the SG, and they aren't terrible shooters either.

Since when did Dudley become so valuable? I think if you asked the majority of people who followed the NBA who they thought was more valuable, if they'd heard of both, it would be Rudy. Rudy seems to be that rare case where Portland fans are much more down on him than the rest of the league.

I kind of compare Dudley to a Batum type player. Good defense, can shoot the ball, and plays within the offense. In terms of athleticism and upside, I think Batum has him beat, but Dudley is the low risk, medium reward type of role player that I think every team needs. Why trade him for the high risk, medium reward player in Rudy? Just makes no sense to me.

And FWIW, at least from the feeling I get from RealGM (Which has fans of every team), no one really values Rudy much, if at all. And the Suns fans want Dudley to be a Sun for life.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I kind of compare Dudley to a Batum type player. Good defense, can shoot the ball, and plays within the offense. In terms of athleticism and upside, I think Batum has him beat, but Dudley is the low risk, medium reward type of role player that I think every team needs. Why trade him for the high risk, medium reward player in Rudy? Just makes no sense to me.

And FWIW, at least from the feeling I get from RealGM (Which has fans of every team), no one really values Rudy much, if at all. And the Suns fans want Dudley to be a Sun for life.

Exactly. If you need a guy to come off the bench to give you stable, steady production (usually based on expending tons of energy into a short window of time) then you probably would rather have a guy like Dudley who will never kill you on defense, will play within himself and energizes the unit that he plays on. Rudy strikes me as the sort of player that needs a big prominent role on offense to succeed because he gets his juice from taking and hitting a lot of shots; when he's stroking it and hitting those step back threes it elevates his energy level on defense (such as it is) and makes him a much more active and effective player -- in short he's got a star's mentality but maybe not enough of an NBA body or enough ball-handling to ever be anything more than a role-player at this level.

If he went to Phoenix I get the feeling that Nash would open up his game and he'd probably flourish as a scorer off the bench, but he still wouldn't start and with Richardson, Childress, et al. on the wings he's not going to get the prominent role that he seems to crave. My guess is that he's back in Spain in two years.

 

[andalusian]

I think a few things contributed:
1. Missing Sergio. Sergio just made it a LOT easier for Rudy. We got at least one spectacular alley-oop every other game or so last year, but this year I don't know if there were any. Now, some here attribute that to scouting. Yeah right. You think NBA players actually pay attention to scouting reports? Their coaches WISH they did. And besides, that would have applied about ten games into last season, but Sergio still found ways to get it to him. (Could it be that maybe Sergio was pretty damn talented? Nahh!)

I actually think that the alley-oop is not a big deal, it's having a guy he knows and is really close friends with. That's why I think Conley would be fantastic for Greg on this team, even if he is not that great of a player. Add the fact that Greg's progress is a lot more important than Rudy's talents...

2. The nagging back injury at the start of the season. As I've mentioned a few times, Rudy was shooting like crap before the surgery, but he was still hustling, and was among the league leaders in steals. Then the surgery. After that, he shot like crap AND he wasn't getting steals. So yeah, the back can't have helped. Probably the pain and being unsure of his body contributed to his all-round misery.

This pretty much is the same as my impression.

At the end of the day, I think that the team needs to take the high-road and find a way to end the relationship with Rudy with grace. He had a bad year, he might not like it here - but he still did come here and lose a lot of money in the process - the least the team can do for him is see if there is a way to accommodate him.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Perhaps we need to be reminded why we liked Rudy in the first place:

[video=youtube;r3WSKgRf1xw]

 

[Nikolokolus]

Facts are facts: we just signed a free agent 2 guard for 5 years 33 million to be Brandon Roy's backup, time to move on.

 

[Nate4Prez]

Man I really wish I had made and worn my "I H8 Rudy" T Shirt to a game last year.

<------- THANKS!

 

[Nikolokolus]

Posted in the other thread (about drama)

jwquick

Trail Blazers actively seeking trade for Rudy Fernandez according to agent Andy Miller. Boston, Chicago and New York are leading candidates

what a douche.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

The Suns (or at least their fans) love Dudley. I highly doubt they'd be up for a Dudley/Rudy swap...

You're not kidding...
(Apparently they also believe that Josh Childress is a shooting guard. Funny how we got Wes Matthews to be our SF and they got Josh Childress to be their SG.)

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

If it's a straight up deal, these are the only players from each team that would work under the cap. I'm not saying either team will do it, just matching salaries.

Avery Bradley
Tony Douglas/Anthony Randolph
Taj Gibson

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Facts are facts: we just signed a free agent 2 guard for 5 years 33 million to be Brandon Roy's backup, time to move on.

I was kind of hoping we paid him that much to be Nicolas Batum's backup. Besides, can Matthews do THIS:

[video=youtube;v192yAW_7qw]

 

[andalusian]

I would do a Rudy for Anthony Randolph deal.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Taj Gibson

That would be pretty okay. But they probably can't spare him.

 

[Trader Ed]

I was kind of hoping we paid him that much to be Nicolas Batum's backup.

I thnk we paid him to play both the 2 and the 3.. and probably in a backup role. But I think he will get good mnutes out of Nate, if his D is what its suppose to be. This team is going to be beter defensivley next year for sure

Rudy will be replaced by Wesley, and Wesley will do much more

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Rudy will be replaced by Wesley, and Wesley will do much more

Certainly Matthews will be a better fit with Nate, and a much better defender. But "do much more"? Questionable. Rudy has talents that Matthews can only dream of. Matthews will not be dunking on Dwight Howard or threading passes through opponents' legs any time soon.

 

[MARIS61]

It's his contract that diminishes his value, IMO. As bad as he played last season, he still wasn't terrible. I just don't see how the Blazers get anything of value in return for him unless he is included in a bigger trade.

It's Nate's inability to utilize individual players and their unique talents in an effective offense that diminishes his value, and as in previous years, player after player will follow his lead and seek out better coaches to play for.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Nate from Quick's article: http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2010/07/trail_blazers_looking_for_a_fa.html

"Let me put it this way," McMillan said. "Rudy is a team player, and his style of play requires minutes. He's not a guy who is just going to come down and jack up a shot. He needs to get into a flow, into a rhythm, and that's not a backup role. And I think that is his frustration."

Say what you like about Nate and his coaching style, but he pretty much nails it with that. Just like Martell, Rudy is a player most effective when he's given lots of shots and lots of minutes, and those were never going to be in abundance with Brandon Roy and Nic Batum ahead of him on the depth chart.

 

[Natebishop3]

Nate from Quick's article: http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2010/07/trail_blazers_looking_for_a_fa.html



Say what you like about Nate and his coaching style, but he pretty much nails it with that. Just like Martell, Rudy is a player most effective when he's given lots of shots and lots of minutes, and those were never going to be in abundance with Brandon Roy and Nic Batum ahead of him on the depth chart.

And that's why I said during his rookie season that I thought Rudy would be gone eventually. I never thought he'd be happy as a backup.

 

[HailBlazers]

Yea that all makes sense. I just thought if we were a solid winning team atop the Pacific Conference and Challenging the Fakers that Rudy would be satisfied coming off the bench... Wishful thinking I guess, but still a real possibility if he does stay

 

[Pinwheel1]

It's Nate's inability to utilize individual players and their unique talents in an effective offense that diminishes his value, and as in previous years, player after player will follow his lead and seek out better coaches to play for.

You mean bench player after bench player will seek other coaches who will give them minutes. Isn't that how it always works?

 

[Nikolokolus]

Yea that all makes sense. I just thought if we were a solid winning team atop the Pacific Conference and Challenging the Fakers that Rudy would be satisfied coming off the bench... Wishful thinking I guess, but still a real possibility if he does stay

This isn't prep hoops, these guys play for enormous sums of money that is directly tied to their performance on the court -- limited minutes, limited role, subpar performance means lost money in their next contract ... wishful thinking indeed.

 

[Trader Ed]

Certainly Matthews will be a better fit with Nate, and a much better defender. But "do much more"? Questionable. Rudy has talents that Matthews can only dream of. Matthews will not be dunking on Dwight Howard or threading passes through opponents' legs any time soon.

I will take the fact that Wesley actually plays defense and shoots as well as Rudy for the occasional 2 highlights a year Rudy brings us. Wesley has a good attitude.. Rudy does not...