Zombie Rush the Stimulus Package...don't read it, just pass it! (1 Viewer)

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The real cause of this recession is that Americans are in too much debt and have lived beyond their means for too long. I don't understand those who argue that the solution is to put Americans in more debt.

There is going to be a natural hangover while Americans pay off their excesses--credit cards, mortgages, etc. It means a broad-based recession, and a necessary one. There are some things government can't fix, nor should they try.
 
The real cause of this recession is that Americans are in too much debt and have lived beyond their means for too long. I don't understand those who argue that the solution is to put Americans in more debt.

There is going to be a natural hangover while Americans pay off their excesses--credit cards, mortgages, etc. It means a broad-based recession, and a necessary one. There are some things government can't fix, nor should they try.

I agree. You just have to ride the cycle. There has to be changes with the american attitude towards borrowing money, credit, etc.
 
On another note: Obama seems growingly frustrated each day. If you listen to him speak, there seems to be some stress in his voice/actions.

"Come on man, pass it!"
 
On another note: Obama seems growingly frustrated each day. If you listen to him speak, there seems to be some stress in his voice/actions.

"Come on man, pass it!"

Public support is melting away at his feet. I'd be frustrated as well, but when he blames the Bush administration for the debt he inherited, and then has a plan that according to the CBO will nearly double that debt, I have to wonder (and it appears many other Americans as well) why it is so urgent to pass this bill. I've posted it repeatedly, but they could get this to a vote in an hour, or at the very least force the GOP Senate to filibuster and then start hammering the GOP over the head with the "obstructionist" hammer.

“I welcome this debate, but we are not going to get relief by turning back to the same policies that for the last eight years doubled the national debt and threw our economy into a tailspin,” said President Obama – sounding more like Candidate Obama than at any time since he took the oath of office less than a month ago
.

So instead we are going to double that debt and quadruple the deficit!
 
More call to rush:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090206/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_economy

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama decried as "inexcusable and irresponsible" the delay of his economic recovery legislation in Congress with an estimated 3.6 million Americans losing their jobs since the recession began.

Obama's remarks were some of his most direct and pointed in support of the massive economic package that the Senate considered Friday and tried to pare down. Obama acknowledged the $900-billion-plus plan was not perfect and pledged to work with lawmakers to refine the measure, which he called "absolutely necessary."

"But broadly speaking, it is the right size," Obama said in prepared remarks. "It is the right scope. ... It will take months — even years — to renew our economy. But every day that Washington fails to act, that recovery is delayed."

the reason: as soon as its passed, its no longer criticized....ergo, obama is no longer criticized.
 
Here's my favorite line from his speech:

"What do you think a stimulus is? It’s spending — that's the whole point! Seriously.”

Actually a stimulus is something that generates growth or action. Cutting taxes is the best and easiest way to do it. Instead of a small group of individuals trying to figure out how to best direct spending, let millions of people instead decide how to allocate resources. The invisible hand is a beautiful thing.
 
Here's my favorite line from his speech:



Actually a stimulus is something that generates growth or action. Cutting taxes is the best and easiest way to do it. Instead of a small group of individuals trying to figure out how to best direct spending, let millions of people instead decide how to allocate resources. The invisible hand is a beautiful thing.

Seriously!
 
tentative agreement: $780 billion.

Well, there's an additional $49B Specter, Snowe and Collins want, so it's more than likely $839B. $839B. Jesus, I can barely type that number. Let's look at it again: $839,000,000,000.00. I can't believe this generation of politicians is going to throw that debt on my son's generation just to payoff their base.
 
The word bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out. - George Carlin
 
According to reports, the Republicans that are going to cross are Collins and Snowe of Maine and Specter of Pennsylvania. That's how tenuous the state of the GOP is in the Northeast. These three are begging to vote for this bill because they fear losing their seats.
 
According to reports, the Republicans that are going to cross are Collins and Snowe of Maine and Specter of Pennsylvania. That's how tenuous the state of the GOP is in the Northeast. These three are begging to vote for this bill because they fear losing their seats.

Specter said he isn't running in 2010 unless Chris Matthews runs against him, and Snowe initially wasn't going to run in 2008 before deciding to do so. They're probably being bribed with ambassadorships or lobbying money once they're out of Congress.
 
Specter said he isn't running in 2010 unless Chris Matthews runs against him, and Snowe initially wasn't going to run in 2008 before deciding to do so. They're probably being bribed with ambassadorships or lobbying money once they're out of Congress.

I think they are being controlled by the little green guy in your avatar.

barfo
 
Specter said he isn't running in 2010 unless Chris Matthews runs against him, and Snowe initially wasn't going to run in 2008 before deciding to do so. They're probably being bribed with ambassadorships or lobbying money once they're out of Congress.

Thanks for the correction on their re-election stati.
 
Any bill needs 60 votes in the senate just to get voted on in the first place. I've seen posts claiming the Democrats can pass this on their own, but they couldn't without enough republicans to get to the 60 figure.

Some republicans could vote for cloture (be among the 60) and then not vote for the actual bill. And the vote is so close, I hear that they're going to wheel in Teddy to cast the deciding vote.
 
I put the Jerry Springer show and the Rush Limbaugh show in the same category. Its sad that a lot of people on the right actually listen to it religiously.
 
Any bill needs 60 votes in the senate just to get voted on in the first place. I've seen posts claiming the Democrats can pass this on their own, but they couldn't without enough republicans to get to the 60 figure.
Some republicans could vote for cloture (be among the 60) and then not vote for the actual bill. And the vote is so close, I hear that they're going to wheel in Teddy to cast the deciding vote.

Have you read a word I posted about calling the GOP's bluff on a cloture vote?
 
Well, there's an additional $49B Specter, Snowe and Collins want, so it's more than likely $839B. $839B. Jesus, I can barely type that number. Let's look at it again: $839,000,000,000.00. I can't believe this generation of politicians is going to throw that debt on my son's generation just to payoff their base.

I think you slipped in an extra $10b for you and your son with that math, maxie ;)

Ed O.
 
I think you slipped in an extra $10b for you and your son with that math, maxie ;)

Ed O.

Man, that's embarrassing. I so rarely use anything but a calculator or a computer program to do math, I've lost the ability to do simple arithmetic.
 
Man, that's embarrassing. I so rarely use anything but a calculator or a computer program to do math, I've lost the ability to do simple arithmetic.

I wouldn't feel too bad. It's only $10 billion. That's couch money for DC these days.
 
Peter Schiff ups the ante in his criticism of the Obama plan.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/119199-this-is-just-the-beginning?source=article_sb_popular

This Is Just the Beginning

The intense scrutiny recently paid to my investment strategy in the immediate wake of the financial crisis of the last six months has unfortunately obscured the central element of my larger economic forecast. The standard line has been that although I was able to predict the crash, in the form of the housing collapse and the credit crunch, my expected fallout of a weaker dollar and global decoupling has been proven false. However, this assumes that the crash has fully played out. In reality, all we have heard thus far is the overture.

In 2008, the bubble economy that I had meticulously described years ago finally hit the pin that I knew was out there. The corporate losses, frozen credit markets and plunging home prices were the opening salvo in the unfolding economic crisis. However, the vast majority of air has yet to leak out of the bubble. As it does, the U.S. economic crisis will kick into a much higher gear. I have positioned my clients to withstand the full fury of the gale, and when it finally comes, the question "was Peter Schiff right?" will finally be answered.

Thus far, our economy has actually been spared the worst due to the temporary strength in the dollar and the recent desirability of our Government's debt. These movements derailed the short-term performance of many of my investment recommendations (though clearly not to the extent alleged by my critics) and threw a life-line to the downing U.S. economy. The demand for U.S. Treasuries has led to one of the sharpest dollar rallies on record, which has helped bring about just as pronounced a decline in commodity prices. As a result, although consumer income has fallen, so too have prices and interest rates.

The stronger dollar gives the Federal Government plenty of cover to a pursue a policy of rampant monetary inflation in order to re-inflate the collapsing bubble. Even though the Federal Reserve has thrown trillions of new dollars into circulation, those dollars have actually gained purchasing power - contrary to economic law. This, along with inventory liquidations and going-out-of-business sales, has kept a lid on consumer prices. The continued, although misguided, appeal of U.S. debt has also made it possible for the government to garner cheap financing for its equally misguided and massive bails-outs and stimulus packages.

In addition to cushioning the blow for us, the dollar rally has exacerbated the pain abroad. As money has rushed to our aid it has created a global credit crunch. The rest of the world is not only dealing with losses on toxic U.S. credit instruments but is also shouldering the burden of financing our new borrowing as well. As foreign currencies have fallen, foreign consumers have not received as large a windfall as Americans have from falling commodity prices.

In effect, Americans have been using these life-lines to pull the rest of the world into the stormy seas. However, there are signs that those holding the lines are about to cast them adrift. The dollar rally has run out of steam, gold has clearly broken out, and commodity prices are moving back up. 2009 is already the worst year ever for US. Treasury bonds and foreign stock markets are once again outperforming ours.

This week President Obama claimed that failure to pass his economic stimulus bill will have catastrophic consequences for the U.S economy. The reality is the catastrophe will be far greater with his plan than without it. If the trends of January and early February of 2009 continue, the rug will be completely pulled out from beneath the U.S. economy, and the full cost of the President's "economic depressant package" will be apparent to all.

If foreign capital does not continue to pour into Treasuries, interest rates and consumer prices in the U.S. will soar. At that point, we will finally be confronted with the real crises that I have long predicted. When the day of reckoning arrives our policy response will be critical. If we continue on the course our new President has mapped out, the catastrophe will far exceed the scope of any he hoped to avoid.
 
Jim Rogers is the latest to sould alarm bells over this irresponsible economic plan.

Is Obama still mocking how "everybody thinks they are an economist"? I wonder, because some well-respected people in the economic world are coming out against his panic-driven agenda. I also wonder what Obama's economic level of education is as well. Is he an "economist"?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Banks-Rescue-Will-Make-Things-cnbc-14311295.html

The new financial rescue plan may not work and could even make things worse because it plunges the US further into debt and it is designed by the same people who failed to forecast the crisis and take measures, legendary investor Jim Rogers told CNBC Tuesday.


Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner will unveil a long-awaited package of measures to help the financial sector at 11 am New York time.

But Rogers said Geithner, who was president of the New York Federal Reserve Bank, "has been dead wrong about everything for 15 years in a row," and so was President Barack Obama's economic advisor Lawrence Summers, who acted as Treasury Secretary at the turn of the century.

"It is mind-boggling to me," Rogers told "Squawk Box Europe."


"If I were on your show 15 weeks in a row and was wrong, you'd probably never invite me back. These guys have been wrong year after year after year consistently and here they are making the same mistakes again. This is not going to solve the problem, it's going to make it worse."

He said he was not contemplating investing into financials, as bankruptcies were still possible, and banks were still trying to find out how affected they were by the crisis.

"What's happening is they've all panicked, cutting back everything, trying to see what they've got," Rogers said.

Big companies such as AIG (NYSE:AIG - News) or Fannie Mae (NYSE: fnm) as well as other US banks don't know how to value their assets, he said.

"Everybody is frozen, trying to figure out ok, what are we worth, what do we do?"

In addition, the recent shifts towards protectionism are harmful, Rogers warned.

"This is very dangerous, that's what caused the great depression in the 1930s. If it happens again, then you'd better sell all the stocks, you'd better sell a lot of everything and bunker down," he said.

"We already have a lot of social unrest developing. If protectionism comes back, you'd better be really, really careful," Rogers added.
 
Anyone see Obama's prime time press conference?

I found it ironic (to say the least) that he was talking about Elkhart Indiana, the motorhome capital of the world. Those things certainly guzzle gasoline and throw CO2 into the atmosphere. So much for Green Guilt.
 

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