S2 Sim League Draft Discussion

[Sex Panther]

ummm ok such as what? draft cheap players that will ensure one of the worst records in the league?

and besides, if some people are at $65 mil with 5 players already, all it means is having a really shitty bench, or good players for cheap.

and if people want the cap at 90 and 70 million, just meet halfway at 80. That way, those that are nearing the cap still have 15-20 million to spend on the bench?

 

[Shapecity]

I just assumed we'd try to be as close to the NBA luxury tax as possible and drafted accordingly. The only team currently over $90M is the entire NBA are the Lakers. The mean is in the $66M to $70M range.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

If you take the high end Lakers and low end Grizzlies it averages out to $73M.

I think $70M is very realistic.

 

[drexlersdad]

mhm. but people should have also made sure they didn't go crazy drafting players with huge contracts.

"think you'd make a better gm?", right?

ok, my main point is i didnt want to fuck people over because these rules were not defined before the start of the draft.

i introduced this because until this point there were NO restrictions on total salary, so im with yall on this.

can we agree on 80 max, 50 min?

 

[Shapecity]

ok, my main point is i didnt want to fuck people over because these rules were not defined before the start of the draft.

i introduced this because until this point there were NO restrictions on total salary, so im with yall on this.

can we agree on 80 max, 50 min?

That sounds good.

 

[Denny Crane]

Look at the payrolls of the Lakers, Celtics, Mavericks, Magic, Nuggets, Suns, Spurs, and Jazz.

Those are roughly the top 1/3 of the teams in the league, wins-wise.

The defending champs are 150% of the LT.

 

[drexlersdad]

Look at the payrolls of the Lakers, Celtics, Mavericks, Magic, Nuggets, Suns, Spurs, and Jazz.

Those are roughly the top 1/3 of the teams in the league, wins-wise.

The defending champs are 150% of the LT.

basically you have to spend to win.

 

[Sex Panther]

80 sounds good.

 

[drexlersdad]

and truly, cap space is only as good as the player you can entice to sign with it. with all of the ballyhoo over this years upcoming star free agents, i wouldnt be surprised at all if not a single one of them changed teams. teams like the nets/knicks could end up holding their dicks.

 

[Denny Crane]

Cap space lets you trade a 2nd round pick for Bosh.

 

[drexlersdad]

Cap space lets you trade a 2nd round pick for Bosh.

ok when that happens ill agree with you.

cap space lets you trade a 2nd round pick for zbo

 

[MikeDC]

I just assumed we'd try to be as close to the NBA luxury tax as possible and drafted accordingly. The only team currently over $90M is the entire NBA are the Lakers. The mean is in the $66M to $70M range.

I saw we use the NBA numbers. I suggested a set of rules for dealing with the tax earlier in the thread. I think they're fair and would also result in decent fun for us going forward.

On the other hand, I think making up a number out of the air will decrease the fun for me quite a bit. Shape, myself, and others drafted with finances in mind. If we make up some absurdly high number going forward, that ultimately makes it sort of arbitrary. Why pick $x instead of $y?

Let's just stick with what the league does. It'll eliminate a lot of arguments.

 

[drexlersdad]

I saw we use the NBA numbers. I suggested a set of rules for dealing with the tax earlier in the thread. I think they're fair and would also result in decent fun for us going forward.

On the other hand, I think making up a number out of the air will decrease the fun for me quite a bit. Shape, myself, and others drafted with finances in mind. If we make up some absurdly high number going forward, that ultimately makes it sort of arbitrary. Why pick $x instead of $y?

Let's just stick with what the league does. It'll eliminate a lot of arguments.

i am absolutely in favor of replicating the nba rules.

this cap is applying only to the draft, once we start we will be using the nba's actual cap numbers.

i just didnt want to get to a point where a team has a 150 million dollar payroll, with no consequences.

 

[MikeDC]

70 isnt going to work, its too late to tell someone, "okay you need to draft 10 minimum players now", maybe we can meet somewhere in the middle though. hadnt really thought about it, but maybe 90 would work.

maybe 90 max/50 min, ill decide by tonight

I think we said we were playing with the LT from the beginning.

By the way, let me restate the rule I suggested here:

Was thinking about this today. I'd propose we use the same basic rules as the NBA but make the luxury tax level a hard cap.

That is, you can't re-sign your own FAs if you go over the luxury tax...

I'd make an exception to this rule for teams that made the conference finals. As a reward for being successful, you get to keep your team together.

It also sort of reflects real life. Most teams won't go over the tax unless they think they're really getting somewhere with it.

That's not a perfect system, but it's the closest I can figure to real life.

 

[MikeDC]

i am absolutely in favor of replicating the nba rules.

this cap is applying only to the draft, once we start we will be using the nba's actual cap numbers.

i just didnt want to get to a point where a team has a 150 million dollar payroll, with no consequences.

Oh, I got ya.

I dunno, I guess I don't care too much. You can only play 5 guys at a time, so I tend to think a team with a $150M payroll is probably not going to be super great anyway. Unless they made the final four, they'd have to start letting people walk anyway. Even if they don't, they'll probably start trading guys away.

 

[drexlersdad]

I think we said we were playing with the LT from the beginning.

By the way, let me restate the rule I suggested here:

yeah i also thought that was logical, but imo there needs to be a small amount of wiggle room. if you are consistently in the playoffs/winning titles, you can afford to have a higher payroll, or at the very least gain the ability to go over by some predetermined amount for the following year.

 

[BrianFromWA]

ok when that happens ill agree with you.

cap space lets you trade a 2nd round pick for zbo

cap space gets you two unprotected first rounders along with Kurt Thomas for a 2nd rounder.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I saw we use the NBA numbers. I suggested a set of rules for dealing with the tax earlier in the thread. I think they're fair and would also result in decent fun for us going forward.

On the other hand, I think making up a number out of the air will decrease the fun for me quite a bit. Shape, myself, and others drafted with finances in mind. If we make up some absurdly high number going forward, that ultimately makes it sort of arbitrary. Why pick $x instead of $y?

Let's just stick with what the league does. It'll eliminate a lot of arguments.

I thought we'd decided for league rules, and that this was a keeper.

 

[Denny Crane]

cap space gets you two unprotected first rounders along with Kurt Thomas for a 2nd rounder.

Cap space gets you Pau Gasol.

 

[drexlersdad]

cap space gets you two unprotected first rounders along with Kurt Thomas for a 2nd rounder.

haha i love how everybody jocks that trade.

late 1st round picks = 3 million dollars

kurt thomas salary that season = 9 million dollars, they traded him for an additional 1st round pick.

3 1st round picks for 9 million dollars. paul allen buys a pick every year, and didnt need cap space to do that, whats the difference?

 

[drexlersdad]

Cap space gets you Pau Gasol.

in what lifetime?

EXPIRINGS *helped* get pau gasol. and some would argue that marc gasol is a fine return in addition to that.

whats with the succession of epic fails here?

 

[BrianFromWA]

haha i love how everybody jocks that trade.

late 1st round picks = 3 million dollars

kurt thomas salary that season = 9 million dollars, they traded him for an additional 1st round pick.

3 1st round picks for 9 million dollars. paul allen buys a pick every year, and didnt need cap space to do that, whats the difference?

When was the last lottery pick you got for 3M?

Paul Allen couldn't buy a pick last year. He had to give up 2 2nd-rounders to move up 2 spots.

It's a tool. Not an end-all, be-all. Creative, out-of-the-box thinkers can spin it into gold. (Sam Presti)

 

[J_Ray]

I was under the impression that we were using the 70M hard cap. Can we decide the final solution soon, because it could effect who people are capable/willing to take.

 

[drexlersdad]

When was the last lottery pick you got for 3M?
Paul Allen couldn't buy a pick last year. He had to give up 2 2nd-rounders to move up 2 spots.

It's a tool. Not an end-all, be-all. Creative, out-of-the-box thinkers can spin it into gold. (Sam Presti)

presti gets alot of love. he traded his 7 million in cap space for harprings contract and eric maynor. 7 million for a late 1st. gold? we will see.

the players he has drafted with the KT picks are sege ibaka and byron mullins. gold? we will see. there IS also the suns pick this summer. maybe he will spin that 20 something pick into gold.

basically he paid 16 million dollars for the right to pay these players salaries.

 

[Sex Panther]

I've always wanted to know, what the hell does that + sign mean beside some of the usernames for people viewing the thread?

 

[drexlersdad]

I was under the impression that we were using the 70M hard cap. Can we decide the final solution soon, because it could effect who people are capable/willing to take.

the hard cap for this inaugural draft has been set at 80 million dollars. we might lower this to the nba luxury tax threshhold( currently 69.92 million) either before we begin play or at some point after.

there is also a minimum cap of 50 million.

fuck it im gonna put it to a vote, poll coming soon.

 

[Run BJM]

I'm with Shape, hard cap should be somewhere around the luxury tax limit. That way the salaries and whatnot are somewhat realistic. I was under the impression the whole time that there was going to be some type of salary cap in this league, thus I drafted for cheap players until my last pick. If someone drafted 5 players making 20 mil a year that was their choice. They've probably got a damn good 5 players. Now they have to pick from min. contract guys.

 

[Natebishop3]

So here's my question.... if a guy is a free agent this summer, and they sign a cheaper contract, does that contract carry over here? How about if they sign a more expensive contract? LeBron for example, or Wade, or Bosh, etc.

 

[DynastYWarrioR6]

So here's my question.... if a guy is a free agent this summer, and they sign a cheaper contract, does that contract carry over here? How about if they sign a more expensive contract? LeBron for example, or Wade, or Bosh, etc.

After we draft these players everything is in our hands, and the only we follow the NBA for is the game scheduling and injuries.

Any contract negotiations will be between the respective GM and that player (player simmed by drexlersdad as the agent, I'm guessing)

 

[Denny Crane]

If we're going to a hard cap, I suggest we use the highest payroll of the NBA teams. Realism, right?

 

[MikeDC]

yeah i also thought that was logical, but imo there needs to be a small amount of wiggle room. if you are consistently in the playoffs/winning titles, you can afford to have a higher payroll, or at the very least gain the ability to go over by some predetermined amount for the following year.

I thought that's what I was suggesting. Like, let's propose an example:

Suppose I'm the Lakers and I'm over the tax. If I make it to the conference championships or beyond, I still get my wiggle room. If I have Free Agents, I can re-sign them. I can use my MLE. I can use my draft picks. I can sign players for the minimum.

That's wiggle room.

Now, suppose the following year, I'm still over the luxury tax, but I get knocked out in the second round. It's time to rebuild. I can't re-sign my own free agents or use my MLE until I get back under the luxury tax.

Likewise, any team that wants to can go into the luxury tax for a season. The pain comes if their bet doesn't pay off by getting them far enough in the playoffs. Then they're limited in what they can do the next year.

So, I think everyone would still have some flexibility, even when over the luxury tax line.

-------------------
As far as the draft, I figure the easiest thing is to let everyone draft how they want to. Then we'll put together the salaries and see where everyone stands. If someone wants to go into the season with a high salary team they don't think is going to get very far, then that's motivation for them to start trading.

Otherwise, we just deal with it. If someone's got a $100M payroll, let them play out the season, and then be limited in what they can do at the end.

If someone wants to go low salary and maintain the cap space for future trades or free agency, I don't see a reason to stop them. That was obviously my strategy.