OT School shooting in California

[Chris Craig]

I don't know if that is it, but we do need to know what it is. Not to move on.

I know. I'm being facetious. Every shooting El Presidente claims its because of aspergers.

 

[calvin natt]

Do you know most gun owners are not scared shitless? Do you know you are?

what fuck are you talking about. I said to make them scared shitless so they don’t let their guns out of their sight or safe. That if they get them taken but a kid they are fucked. Learn to read

 

[SlyPokerDog]

@MarAzul please stop with the personal insults.

 

[MarAzul]

@MarAzul please stop with the personal insults.

I spoke strait truth. It was not an insult, was the correct diagnosis of his fear.

 

[calvin natt]

I spoke strait truth. It was not an insult, was the correct diagnosis of his fear.

what fear? Of my kids someday getting caught in a situation that happened today in California? Yep. You must not have kids. If you do, do you see them? What other fear are you talking about?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I spoke strait truth. It was not an insult, was the correct diagnosis of his fear.

And that was the correct answer for saying you don't want to post in this thread anymore.

 

[yankeesince59]

make gun owners scared shitless about what would happen if they don’t know where their guns are. No more little Timmy grabbing dads gun. Anyone caught with a gun who doesn’t have their permit or whatever the fuck it is gets huge fine and jail time. Just make everything devastatingly harsh for anyone who isn’t completely buttoned up with their gun. This shouldn’t scare anyone who is doing it right

That won't keep criminals from acquiring weapons.

 

[Hobbesarable]

Why does it seem like it's always gotta be, "Gun legislation, ban all the guns, guns are the problem!" or, "Mental Health, Autism, whatever".
It seems to me like that there are 200M adults in the US that we could figure out that there is a middle ground to this could lead to actual action that would at least show action towards doing something. Gun legislation, keeping guns out of volatile people's hands, keeping guns from people who can't use them responsibly. Keeping them from the hands of children, that seems absolutely 100% reasonable. Working on mental health issues, understanding the effects of technology on children, identifying kids with issues not to punish them, but to HELP them. All that stuff seems reasonable too. Too many people only want to talk about doing "one" of those things and want to ignore the other aspect of it... It's like people feel like if one side gets their way it steps on their agenda. The agenda shouldn't be taking your guns, keeping your guns, shunning kids with mental illnesses, driving the outcasts further away from society. The agenda should be making society safer, keeping our kids safe, keeping adults safe.

It is a multilayered issue for sure.

 

[calvin natt]

That won't keep criminals from acquiring weapons.

No it won’t. And stop signs don’t mean everyone stops but it’s better than nothing.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Republican solution:

MOAR GUNS!!!

 

[yankeesince59]

No it won’t. And stop signs don’t mean everyone stops but it’s better than nothing.

Stop signs aren't for sale illegally and criminals don't use them in order to commit a crime. And common criminals don't go to schools and commit the kind of crimes we saw yesterday. And those crimes also are not committed by NRA members. (and no, I'm not a member) People who want a gun for whatever reason, will find a way to get one and f'd up people will continue to do f'd up things.

My point is that even more legislation won't help our problem as much as changing our culture.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Stop signs aren't for sale illegally and criminals don't use them in order to commit a crime. And common criminals don't go to schools and commit the kind of crimes we saw yesterday. And those crimes also are not committed by NRA members. (and no, I'm not a member) People who want a gun for whatever reason, will find a way to get one and f'd up people will continue to do f'd up things.

My point is that even more legislation won't help our problem as much as changing our culture.

I don't feel nearly as strongly anti-gun as @calvin natt does. I don't own any guns, I don't shoot guns, I don't have any reason to be "pro-gun". I just feel and think differently about it then he does. I have kids too, I understand that it's a terrifying thought that sending your kids to school or to the movies you could get a text of an active gunman at WalMart and all of that.

I think it's a cultural problem, I think technology, and "media" (all of it), and there are just a lot of factors that come into play in regards to whats wrong, and I don't think getting rid of guns necessarily get's rid of those problems, or makes the world a less dangerous place. However, getting guns out of people's hands DOES create an actionable item that will prevent at least some of these violent outbursts, and having stricter laws in regards to guns, even if it just prevents one shooting, isn't that worth it? I bet if those laws kept the three of those kids alive yesterday the parents would say it was worth it.

 

[calvin natt]

Stop signs aren't for sale illegally and criminals don't use them in order to commit a crime. And common criminals don't go to schools and commit the kind of crimes we saw yesterday. And those crimes also are not committed by NRA members. (and no, I'm not a member) People who want a gun for whatever reason, will find a way to get one and f'd up people will continue to do f'd up things.

My point is that even more legislation won't help our problem as much as changing our culture.

This is a common belief, and its unfortunate. The, "well, the guns are out there, so theres nothing we can do" and throw hands up. Its pathetic. You have to do EVERYTHING. Changing the culture - sure, lets do it. That should be a quick process. In the meantime, let's change the culture on our guns in the country. Let's make it harder to get, stricter laws to keep and own, and punish the owners of the guns for the crimes that are committed with their gun. Who has a problem with that? People who dont want to do those things? Fuck them. People who cant keep track of their gun? The guns on the streets are out of our control. But the guns that kids take from dad and go shoot at school?

 

[yankeesince59]

This is a common belief, and its unfortunate. The, "well, the guns are out there, so theres nothing we can do" and throw hands up. Its pathetic. You have to do EVERYTHING. Changing the culture - sure, lets do it. That should be a quick process. In the meantime, let's change the culture on our guns in the country. Let's make it harder to get, stricter laws to keep and own, and punish the owners of the guns for the crimes that are committed with their gun. Who has a problem with that? People who dont want to do those things? Fuck them. People who cant keep track of their gun? The guns on the streets are out of our control. But the guns that kids take from dad and go shoot at school?

There have been multiple pieces of "legislation" passed over the years and each one was supposedly better than the one before it...they all failed to do what they were intended to do.

Penalizing or even criminalizing the people who do not secure their weapons/firearms will not deter people who don't give a damn about how they obtain a weapon in order to kill people.

I'm not denying that we have a serious problem in this country but I just don't see legislation will solve it...people who have it their mind to do harm to others will always find a way of doing so. If they can't get a gun, they can easily make a bomb or whatever.



For the most part, you don't see the attacks like we've seen way too often recently in other countries around the world, only happen here in the US. Again, IMO, the problem has less to do with the availability of firearms and more to do with our culture.

 

[calvin natt]

There have been multiple pieces of "legislation" passed over the years and each one was supposedly better than the one before it...they all failed to do what they were intended to do.

Penalizing or even criminalizing the people who do not secure their weapons/firearms will not deter people who don't give a damn about how they obtain a weapon in order to kill people.

I'm not denying that we have a serious problem in this country but I just don't see legislation will solve it...people who have it their mind to do harm to others will always find a way of doing so. If they can't get a gun, they can easily make a bomb or whatever.



For the most part, you don't see the attacks like we've seen way too often recently in other countries around the world, only happen here in the US. Again, IMO, the problem has less to do with the availability of firearms and more to do with our culture.

Kids cannot "easily make bombs".
The fact that it doesnt happen around the world like it does here, yet the entire world has mental/emotional issues, tells you that there is something maybe....about the access to guns being the issue. The Netherlands has mental health issues like Canada does like Australia does like America does.
If gun owners kept their guns locked up, that might stop a kid from stealing dad's gun. If every gun owner knew he was responsible for whatever happened with his gun, it MIGHT make people more careful.

 

[yankeesince59]

Kids cannot "easily make bombs".
The fact that it doesnt happen around the world like it does here, yet the entire world has mental/emotional issues, tells you that there is something maybe....about the access to guns being the issue. The Netherlands has mental health issues like Canada does like Australia does like America does.
If gun owners kept their guns locked up, that might stop a kid from stealing dad's gun. If every gun owner knew he was responsible for whatever happened with his gun, it MIGHT make people more careful.

Yes, kids can easily make bombs...it's not that hard and the different components needed to make them are not that hard to find...I'm sure there's plenty of info on the internet with instructions...hell, there's probably a youtube video that shows how.

I'm also sure that gun owners already know that they are responsible for their guns and can be held libel for allowing them to fall into the wrong hands yet still it happens...and there are other laws designed to protect us from our selves but you just cannot depend people to do the right thing.



As Ron White says, "You can't fix stupid".

 

[calvin natt]

Yes, kids can easily make bombs...it's not that hard and the different components needed to make them are not that hard to find...I'm sure there's plenty of info on the internet with instructions...hell, there's probably a youtube video that shows how.

I'm also sure that gun owners already know that they are responsible for their guns and can be held libel for allowing them to fall into the wrong hands yet still it happens...and there are other laws designed to protect us from our selves but you just cannot depend people to do the right thing.



As Ron White says, "You can't fix stupid".

https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-school-shootings-most-guns-come-from-home-1522920600

 

[calvin natt]

Yes, kids can easily make bombs...it's not that hard and the different components needed to make them are not that hard to find...I'm sure there's plenty of info on the internet with instructions...hell, there's probably a youtube video that shows how.

I'm also sure that gun owners already know that they are responsible for their guns and can be held libel for allowing them to fall into the wrong hands yet still it happens...and there are other laws designed to protect us from our selves but you just cannot depend people to do the right thing.



As Ron White says, "You can't fix stupid".

From what I can tell, we dont have a major kid bomb-making epidemic in the country.

 

[yankeesince59]

From what I can tell, we dont have a major kid bomb-making epidemic in the country.

And I didn't say we did...I simply said that there are other ways to kill people other than firearms, including bombs.

 

[calvin natt]

And I didn't say we did...I simply said that there are other ways to kill people other than firearms, including bombs.

ok i guess i dont know what your point is then. There are a lot of ways to kill. The problem we have in America with kids especially is guns. so lets address that. multiple ways. one being gun regulation. if we can get to a point where kids with guns isnt an issue anymore and they have moved on to making bombs in their bedrooms, we can address that at the time.

 

[yankeesince59]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-school-shootings-most-guns-come-from-home-1522920600

I'm well aware that many come from home and as I've point our several times you cannot keep people from being careless. And "normal" people/children as a whole are not the ones doing these horrible things...they are typically disturbed individuals.

Again, gun laws have not succeeded in curbing mass shootings...if anything, it's getting worse. That tells me that the problem/solution lies elsewhere.

 

[yankeesince59]

ok i guess i dont know what your point is then. There are a lot of ways to kill. The problem we have in America with kids especially is guns. so lets address that. multiple ways. one being gun regulation. if we can get to a point where kids with guns isnt an issue anymore and they have moved on to making bombs in their bedrooms, we can address that at the time.

Gun regulation is not working. Like I said, it's becoming even worse.

Each time something like yesterday happens people start clamoring for even more gun restrictions/regulations/background checks, etc., and no matter how many bills are passed, people continue to do stupid things. And THAT will never change until we re-examine the problem and how to address it in a different and better way.

 

[calvin natt]

Gun regulation is not working. Like I said, it's becoming even worse.

Each time something like yesterday happens people start clamoring for even more gun restrictions/regulations/background checks, etc., and no matter how many bills are passed, people continue to do stupid things. And THAT will never change until we re-examine the problem and how to address it in a different and better way.

Very sad opinion, that is unfortunately shared by countless others.

America does not have strict, enforced gun laws.

 

[yankeesince59]

Very sad opinion, that is unfortunately shared by countless others.

America does not have strict, enforced gun laws.

Sorry, but it not only happens to be my "opinion"...it's fact.

Strictness of gun laws is debatable depending on whether someone happens to be a gun owner or not.

 

[Lanny]

Do you have extensive training in assumptions?

1. Those are not assumptions. An assumption would be a logical conclusion. Those were probabilistic guesses;
2. They looked more like they were based on common sense and I'll presume, although I don't know for certain, that he has extensive training in common sense.

 

[yankeesince59]

1. Those are not assumptions. An assumption would be a logical conclusion. Those were probabilistic guesses;
2. They looked more like they were based on common sense and I'll presume, although I don't know for certain, that he has extensive training in common sense.

Your are correct, Sir.

 

[andalusian]

That's fine, but how will you legislate keeping guns out of the hands of criminals?

Criminals are by definition something you always legislate against - and it never works 100% - otherwise there would not be any criminals.

It is always about common sense - making it harder to get the resources for criminal activity.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Angry hormonal young teenaged boy gets a weapon, loads it and takes it to a school and shoots 7 people including himself....kids used to get angry and kill themselves over bullying...usually without harming others if they suffered such debilitating depression or rage. I'm no Sherlock Holmes but we need to address the access to weapons and ammo that apparently many feel safe enough around to accept. I think steps need to be taken by communities to safeguard from these tragic events and put aside the rhetoric about the past and deal with what is a current trend in our country

Id say we need to investigate the mindset that makes teens think this is okay over the access to such weapons. The weapons aren't going away, but mindset can be changed, turned from negative to positive. What is making the kids feel so negative, depressive? This should be the focal point of investigating, not the access of weapons.


General statement: Weapons have been around since the beginning of time. They will not go away. To focus on hand gun proliferation in this country would be a futile effort only resulting in complete chaos and civil war.

Focus on the psychology and sociology that is warping our youths' minds.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Shooter was apparently a Boy Scout too.

Not a manner of teaching kids responsibility, sounds like a psychotic breakdown of some kind.

 

[yankeesince59]

Id say we need to investigate the mindset that makes teens think this is okay over the access to such weapons. The weapons aren't going away, but mindset can be changed, turned from negative to positive. What is making the kids feel so negative, depressive? This should be the focal point of investigating, not the access of weapons.


General statement: Weapons have been around since the beginning of time. They will not go away. To focus on hand gun proliferation in this country would be a futile effort only resulting in complete chaos and civil war.

Focus on the psychology and sociology that is warping our youths' minds.

Thank you, Sir.