Season Opener: New York @ Boston

[Knicks Analyst]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Nothing in the NBA is lucky. He was in the right place at the right time because of his skills. He knows where to be because he's always been a good rebounder. The Old Man can still play. You shouldnt say someone is bad just because of their age. ZO is old but he's still a huge factor. No one mentioned Crawford or Marbury in the past posts. Crawford had several huge turnovers in the game and sometimes took his old bad shots. Altogether Marbury and Crawford combined for 11 TO's.</div>
I didn't bother checking because I assumed (since it was extraordinarily obvious) that as soon as the game was over someone would have said something. My bad, I suppose. Davis was lucky, he didn't position himself for the rebound...do you understand that it was a long board and it literally went right at him? It happens sometimes, pal. And it's not positioning - often it's luck. That's how sometimes guys like Marbury (who rarely ever position themselves) manage to get four or five boards in a game - two or three drop right in front of them - it happens.


I'm happy he hit that shot. But I'm not going to praise him for it, it was a nice shot - that's all. What else do I want him to do? Take control of the ball, don't waste so much damn time, and move your feet more on defense. That's what I want - if he had done those things he never would have needed to be in the position where he'd have to take the game-winning shot.

 

[Bleed Green]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">I didn't bother checking because I assumed (since it was extraordinarily obvious) that as soon as the game was over someone would have said something. My bad, I suppose. Davis was lucky, he didn't position himself for the rebound...do you understand that it was a long board and it literally went right at him? It happens sometimes, pal. And it's not positioning - often it's luck. That's how sometimes guys like Marbury (who rarely ever position themselves) manage to get four or five boards in a game - two or three drop right in front of them - it happens..</div>

So, You're saying Davis shouldve let the ball go and not pick it up, simply because it was luck that the ball got there. Com on Man, Out of all ppl i wouldnt think you would play that Luck BS. Like I said 5-7 rebounds isnt bad for an old man, way past his prime. I think us Knicks fan are expecting alot from him. Davis is a simple great role player. He's not gonna drop 20 a night and grab 10 boards a game.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm happy he hit that shot. But I'm not going to praise him for it, it was a nice shot - that's all. What else do I want him to do? Take control of the ball, don't waste so much damn time, and move your feet more on defense. That's what I want - if he had done those things he never would have needed to be in the position where he'd have to take the game-winning shot.</div>

I dont get what you're talking about position. Davis was posting up. Where did you expect him to be? In the 3pt line? The ball was either going 2 Marbury or Curry. The defense prevented it so Davis got the last shot. He didnt have much control of the ball but thats not his job. I don't see a guy wasting such much time and still going 4-6 from the field. Heck if Davis gives me that every night, then he can have all the time he wants.

 

[Knicks Analyst]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
So, You're saying Davis shouldve let the ball go and not pick it up, simply because it was luck that the ball got there. Com on Man, Out of all ppl i wouldnt think you would play that Luck BS. Like I said 5-7 rebounds isnt bad for an old man, way past his prime. I think us Knicks fan are expecting alot from him. Davis is a simple great role player. He's not gonna drop 20 a night and grab 10 boards a game.</div>
What the hell? The fact of the matter is that he fought for maybe 5 of those boards. Period - that's how many he worked for. For an old guy, that's good - but for a starting PF that's extremely weak. I'm not looking at him as an old guy - I see him as the man that started at the 4 for us last night. And the man that started didn't get the job done nicely - age doesn't matter. If he's too old then he shouldn't have started. I expected nothing out of him, but others really did think he'd be a strong contributor - I'm making the point that I don't think that he will be a strong contributor to the Knicks. Sure, he'll be ok. But don't expect anything - because if you do, you'll probably be let down. That's my message.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I dont get what you're talking about position. Davis was posting up. Where did you expect him to be? In the 3pt line? The ball was either going 2 Marbury or Curry. The defense prevented it so Davis got the last shot. He didnt have much control of the ball but thats not his job. I don't see a guy wasting such much time and still going 4-6 from the field. Heck if Davis gives me that every night, then he can have all the time he wants.</div>
What? By "position" I meant the "position" in which he'd have to take the last shot. Perhaps you would better understand "situation". He never would have had to have been in the situation in which he'd have to bury the tying shot, if only he didn't make so many costly errors. Understand now?

 

[Bleed Green]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">What the hell? The fact of the matter is that he fought for maybe 5 of those boards. Period - that's how many he worked for. For an old guy, that's good - but for a starting PF that's extremely weak. I'm not looking at him as an old guy - I see him as the man that started at the 4 for us last night. And the man that started didn't get the job done nicely - age doesn't matter. If he's too old then he shouldn't have started. I expected nothing out of him, but others really did think he'd be a strong contributor - I'm making the point that I don't think that he will be a strong contributor to the Knicks. Sure, he'll be ok. But don't expect anything - because if you do, you'll probably be let down. That's my message.</div>

Ok, You trash Davis so who would you rather want starting? Undersized Taylor who can get u 3 rebounds or Malik who cant do any better. How about Frye? Or as you like 2 call him. Mr. Softey. I also think your taking the 1st game way too seriously. The 1st game, Players are going 2 be rusty and so will the chemistry. I dont get why your doubting and thrashing a guy after he gave you 9 and 7. Thats so much better then wat Frye, Lee, Rose, or Taylor can do.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">What? By "position" I meant the "position" in which he'd have to take the last shot. Perhaps you would better understand "situation". He never would have had to have been in the situation in which he'd have to bury the tying shot, if only he didn't make so many costly errors. Understand now?</div>

Your Going back to Point A again. What position or Situation did u want him to be in? The guy made the shot, so where should he have been? Costly errors because of lack of chemistry. This was his first regular season game with NYK. Perhaps you would better learn how to cut a guy some slack.

 

[JWohl]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GotSkillz92:</div><div class="quote_post">The 1st game, Players are going 2 be rusty and so will the chemistry. </div>
If I may jump in, players shouldnt be rusty they hade the freiking PRESEASON!! That should be no excuse for not playing well. And how can chemistry be rusty when there never was any chemistry in the first place because of all the newcomers.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I dont get why your doubting and thrashing a guy after he gave you 9 and 7. Thats so much better then wat Frye, Lee, Rose, or Taylor can do.</div>
9 and 7 are not good stats for a starting power forward. on a high school team. period.

 

[Bleed Green]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting JWohl:</div><div class="quote_post">If I may jump in, players shouldnt be rusty they hade the freiking PRESEASON!! That should be no excuse for not playing well. And how can chemistry be rusty when there never was any chemistry in the first place because of all the newcomers.


9 and 7 are not good stats for a starting power forward. on a high school team. period.</div>

FIRST OF ALL DAVIS ONLY PLAYED ONE PRESEASON GAME. AND HE BARELY PRACTICED WITH THE KNICKS. THATS HOW HE'S GOING 2 BE RUSTY. YOU PUT A GUY INTO A WHOLE NEW TEAM THAT DOESNT HAVE CHEMISTRY AND YOU'RE GOING 2 HAVE PROBLEMS. 9/7 for a new PF in a team including the GW shot is pretty good to me. Like I said Jwohl, Put Taylor, Frye, or Rose in that position. See how many boards they grab.

 

[Knicks Analyst]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ok, You trash Davis so who would you rather want starting? Undersized Taylor who can get u 3 rebounds or Malik who cant do any better. How about Frye? Or as you like 2 call him. Mr. Softey. I also think your taking the 1st game way too seriously. The 1st game, Players are going 2 be rusty and so will the chemistry. I dont get why your doubting and thrashing a guy after he gave you 9 and 7. Thats so much better then wat Frye, Lee, Rose, or Taylor can do.p</div> I don't think any of them could do much better. My "trashing" of him was done for one reason - to calm down all the guys who thought he'd be a true contributor on the team. That was the only reason I made that point, because some people seemed to think that he'd be a very good player for the Knicks - Im shooting that arguement down, saying that he will be just another bench-qaulity PF.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Your Going back to Point A again. What position or Situation did u want him to be in? The guy made the shot, so where should he have been? Costly errors because of lack of chemistry. This was his first regular season game with NYK. Perhaps you would better learn how to cut a guy some slack.</div>
Listen to me. Now. This is the last time. Davis put himself in the position to take the last shot. How? He made tons of mistakes on offense and made some stupid fouls. If he only had controlled the ball even slightly better, or had he only moved his feet more on defense he probably never would have had to take that last shot. I'm saying he never should have been in that position, the Knicks should have been ahead. I'm not only blaming Davis, everyone was weak - but don't get the wrong idea, Davis should not get off easy just because he made that shot, he should not get off easy just because he's older. No matter what, he started at the power forward for the Knicks, he played very poorly, I'm just ensuring that his poor play does not go unnoticed. While it was easy to detect the poor play of others such as Marbury or Crawford - you had to notice the fact that Davis was pretty weak too last night. And since his bad performance was overshadowed by that shot (that he never should have had to have taken in the first place) it has also been overshadowed by the even worse performances on the part of Marbury and Crawford. So I'm simply making sure that Davis' performance goes noted down as weak - as it deserves to.

There's nothing more left to argue. You got what I gave you. It should make sense to you now why I made that post about Davis, so we should now have reached an understanding.



edit:GotSkillz, I just read your response to Jwohl. You used tons of capital letters throughout a sentence or two. Another violation of JBB guidelines. Please watch what you're doing and be more careful. Thanks.

 

[Bleed Green]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think any of them could do much better. My "trashing" of him was done for one reason - to calm down all the guys who thought he'd be a true contributor on the team. That was the only reason I made that point, because some people seemed to think that he'd be a very good player for the Knicks - Im shooting that arguement down, saying that he will be just another bench-qaulity PF.</div>

Nobody said he was going 2 be our main scorer or Rebounder. We said that he's going 2 be a solid role player then the knicks. He can do NOW, what Curry, Rose, and the rest of the undersized crew can't. I never said he's going 2 be very good. I stated my point that the guy is rusty and doesnt even know his teammates. Even with that he put up 9/7. The knicks dont need much offense from davis. We have plentry of offense in the lineup already. I dont see Davis going 2 the bench. He's our best PF in the team.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">Listen to me. Now. This is the last time. Davis put himself in the position to take the last shot. How? He made tons of mistakes on offense and made some stupid fouls. If he only had controlled the ball even slightly better, or had he only moved his feet more on defense he probably never would have had to take that last shot. I'm saying he never should have been in that position, the Knicks should have been ahead. I'm not only blaming Davis, everyone was weak - but don't get the wrong idea, Davis should not get off easy just because he made that shot, he should not get off easy just because he's older. No matter what, he started at the power forward for the Knicks, he played very poorly, I'm just ensuring that his poor play does not go unnoticed. While it was easy to detect the poor play of others such as Marbury or Crawford - you had to notice the fact that Davis was pretty weak too last night. And since his bad performance was overshadowed by that shot (that he never should have had to have taken in the first place) it has also been overshadowed by the even worse performances on the part of Marbury and Crawford. So I'm simply making sure that Davis' performance goes noted down as weak - as it deserves to.

There's nothing more left to argue. You got what I gave you. It should make sense to you now why I made that post about Davis, so we should now have reached an understanding.</div>

So Davis cost us the game. May I repeat the Knicks missed 15 freethrows, Let up tons of offensive rebounds, and 22 TO's. Thats the recipe for a loss.

EDIT: can you not bold letters constantly. Its violates everyones guidelines.

 

[JWohl]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GotSkillz92:</div><div class="quote_post">FIRST OF ALL DAVIS ONLY PLAYED ONE PRESEASON GAME. AND HE BARELY PRACTICED WITH THE KNICKS. THATS HOW HE'S GOING 2 BE RUSTY. YOU PUT A GUY INTO A WHOLE NEW TEAM THAT DOESNT HAVE CHEMISTRY AND YOU'RE GOING 2 HAVE PROBLEMS. </div>
Firstly capitilizing your post doesnt make you come off as powerful, intimidating or a 'big man' it makes you look foolish.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">9/7 for a new PF in a team including the GW shot is pretty good to me. Like I said Jwohl, Put Taylor, Frye, or Rose in that position. See how many boards they grab.</div>
9/7 is pretty good to you? wow your standards must be pretty low..... I'm glad you aren't our GM ..... if that is "pretty good" to you then give me an example of a bad starting PF in the league. Please. Give me a starter that does worse than that.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">including the GW shot</div>
He hit the game winning shot? We won?! Really?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So Davis cost us the game. May I repeat the Knicks missed 15 freethrows, Let up tons of offensive rebounds, and 22 TO's. Thats the recipe for a loss.</div>
Would you, perchance, like to elaborate on some of Davis's other stats other than his 9/7 you are so fond of? 5 fouls. 3 turnovers from a PF!! No blocks. In about the same amount of minutes as Raef + Jefferson the two of them put together put up 17-17.

 

[Knicks Analyst]

Gotskillz, is this a joke? Davis was awful, he was not a solid role player. He was terrible, did we watch the same game? I doubt you even watched it from your posts. He was very bad. Period. End of story, especially for a starter.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So Davis cost us the game. May I repeat the Knicks missed 15 freethrows, Let up tons of offensive rebounds, and 22 TO's. Thats the recipe for a loss.</div>
Excuse me, but did I not say that it was the fault of the Knicks....Crawford, Marbury and others? I said that it was all of the Knicks' faults! But that many people said that Davis was good, like you. They said this because they look at stats, not the game. They see that he hit a big shot - so is he excused from playing 30 minutes very poorly? No! He was awful, he got off easy because Curry, Marbury, and Crawford were all even worse. Davis deserves to be cited as a weak link, he showed he was one. That's what I was doing, showing that.

Do you get it now? After all of this? Read my last post over and read this one, I said basically the same thing. Please read my posts more carefully, I think I deserve at least that much.

 

[Bleed Green]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting JWohl:</div><div class="quote_post">Firstly capitilizing your post doesnt make you come off as powerful, intimidating or a 'big man' it makes you look foolish.


9/7 is pretty good to you? wow your standards must be pretty low..... I'm glad you aren't our GM ..... if that is "pretty good" to you then give me an example of a bad starting PF in the league. Please. Give me a starter that does worse than that.


He hit the game winning shot? We won?! Really?

</div>
I capitilized because You capitlized also. Maybe capitilized will make you read my point.

.

How many times do I have to say this. I think i might have to make a sig with my quote on it. 9/7 is way better then what frye, taylor, and rose can do. If we would've won then Everyone wouldve said how good Davis played. DOnt blame it on Davis. Blame it on the guards.

 

[JWohl]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GotSkillz92:</div><div class="quote_post">I capitilized because You capitlized also. Maybe capitilized will make you read my point.

.</div>
I capitalized one word. You capitalized a complete (false and foolish) statement.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">How many times do I have to say this. I think i might have to make a sig with my quote on it. 9/7 is way better then what frye, taylor, and rose can do. If we would've won then Everyone wouldve said how good Davis played. Dont blame it on Davis. Blame it on the guards.</div>
How many times do I have to say this that you are making an irrelevant argument. No one is saying that frye, taylor and rose can do better we are just giving Davis some of the blame for playing like crap. No matter what anyone else would have done he played poorly, end of story.

 

[Bleed Green]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">Gotskillz, is this a joke? Davis was awful, he was not a solid role player. He was terrible, did we watch the same game? I doubt you even watched it from your posts. He was very bad. Period. End of story, especially for a starter.



Excuse me, but did I not say that it was the fault of the Knicks....Crawford, Marbury and others? I said that it was all of the Knicks' faults! But that many people said that Davis was good, like you. They said this because they look at stats, not the game. They see that he hit a big shot - so is he excused from playing 30 minutes very poorly? No! He was awful, he got off easy because Curry, Marbury, and Crawford were all even worse. Davis deserves to be cited as a weak link, he showed he was one. That's what I was doing, showing that.

Do you get it now? After all of this? Read my last post over and read this one, I said basically the same thing. Please read my posts more carefully, I think I deserve at least that much.</div>

Please ready my posts more carefully also. You still havent learned that Davis is the best we can do right now. 9 and 7 is role playing numbers. He's old, rusty, and new. I said Davis played good for his first game as a Knick. Not that Davis is our savior at PF. Davis saved the game for the knicks and played good. More blame should be put on the guards. 11 turnovers, 7 missed free throws. Davis only missed 2 shots and made the GT shots. He also dropped 9/7. But they dont count because theyre lucky.

Cut the guy some slack, when it was barely his fault.

 

[Midnight Green]

I am not going to comment on the game I did not watch it so I would be stupid to comment on that. However, I would like to know what Knicks fans expected from Antonio Davis? Anyone who has watched him the past two years knows that nine and seven is what your going to get from him. Some nights he will have 12 maybe 15 points, but for the most part he will average nine and seven. To expect anything more from him at this point is ludicrous he is getting up there in age, and is approaching the “mentor” phase of his career. He was a great starter for the Bulls because; although, he is not an all star starting power forward he provided them with toughness and some decent statistics for a man his age. He was basically a mentor who played in a starting role. If a team does not have depth backing up Davis I do not think he should be the starter. I would personally with the roster the Knicks have in place right now start Lee over him. Although, the numbers might be similar Lee is still younger, has more years left on his contract, and the starting experience will likely benefit the Knicks more due to the fact he will most likely be the starter next season after Davis either leaves to return to Chicago or retires.

Davis did only play one preseason game with the Knicks like Gotskillz mentioned. I do not think his statistics will vary much as time passes, but some of the mistakes that Knicks Analyst mentioned such as moving his feet on defense will improve over time. Truth told Davis is a great starter depending on the team he is on, and the team the Knicks currently have assembled is not the type, which allows him to be a good starter. Just to recap my post into two quick sentences. I don’t think he should be starting I would start Lee. I do however think he had a good game for “ Antonio Davis” this is what you’re going to get from him hate it or love it.

 

[Knicks Analyst]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GotSkillz92:</div><div class="quote_post">Please ready my posts more carefully also. You still havent learned that Davis is the best we can do right now. 9 and 7 is role playing numbers. He's old, rusty, and new. I said Davis played good for his first game as a Knick. Not that Davis is our savior at PF. Davis saved the game for the knicks and played good. More blame should be put on the guards. 11 turnovers, 7 missed free throws. Davis only missed 2 shots and made the GT shots. He also dropped 9/7. But they dont count because theyre lucky.

Cut the guy some slack, when it was barely his fault.</div>
I'm locking it now. But listen once more. I realize that none of the others could have done better, OK?! But Davis got basically none of the blame for the defeat, he got no negative stuff written about him for two reasons. 1) He hit a "big shot" 2) His awful game was overshadowed by the weak performances of more popular players, Marbury and Crawford. So, he got none of the blame, no one complained about him. Many people said that they thought he'd be a contributor. Wohl and I are simply saying, that he is still not a good power forward. He may be the best we have, but Wohl and I are saying that he still isn't good enough. He deserves some blame, realize the facts - 3 TOs, 5 fouls and he slowed down the offense. He does deserve some negative ink, that's what Wohl and I are saying. Even though he wasn't the main reason the Knicks lost, he still was a factor - period. Why should we cut him some slack? Who cares about age? The guy is our starting PF, and he stank. He doesn't deserve any slack. We're not taking the blame away from Marbury and Crawford, we're just saying that while you notice that they are a large part of the reason we lost, you have to notice that Davis was also a factor in the loss. One thing is for certain, he wasn't a good point - he was a weak player and he showed no real promise.

Since time after time you've failed to understand that very simple message, and since you refuse to carefully read what Wohl and I have posted, and since you're never going to let it all end (you'll probably just keep dragging it on like you have been without paying careful notice to what Wohl and I were saying).
Because of all of this, I'm locking the thread. Just read this post over once more and hopefully you'll get it. You sure as hell weren't reading it carefully before.

It's an extremely simple message. Just read it.